TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

Ryder

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Belongs in history but still foreign policy.

Kenan Evren and Zia Ul Haq were pretty similar. Both did a coup and came from military backgrounds.

Both shared anti communist sentiment.

It is said Kenan evren wanted to acquire nuclear weapons. Im interested in the talks they had.
 

Marlii

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Belongs in history but still foreign policy.

Kenan Evren and Zia Ul Haq were pretty similar. Both did a coup and came from military backgrounds.

Both shared anti communist sentiment.

It is said Kenan evren wanted to acquire nuclear weapons. Im interested in the talks they had.
Zia ul haq one of the most polarising figure from south asia. If any one want to point figure on how pakistan is today it would be this guy. Has nuclear parity with a rival 7 times larger, yoinked the soviets in afghanistan but his afghan policy along with the domestic pleasement attitude towards extremism boomeranged badly. Atleast the guy was feared he was whacked by having explosive mangoes on his plane 🤣
 

Marquis de Sade

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Hamas is Palestine's army.
Palestine has the right to defend themselves.

They are not Palestines army. There a lot of indications and reports that Hamas was created by the Mossad as a rival to Yasser Arafat.

Hamas harmed Arafat, harmed PLO, harmed the Oslo accords and damaged the reputation of the Palestinian resistance.

Even when marxist Palestinian groups hijacked airplanes, cruiseships and trains, attacked airports all over Europe, they created more sympathy than Hamas.

Hamas frustrated since 1987 everything that Arafat and his PLO achieved, its like the Black September organization that suddenly attacked the Israeli Olympian athlets for the eyes of the whole world. For what?

Hamas is controlled opposition and sometimes Israel lose the control.
 

Ryder

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PLO comitted so many crimes they even fought as Mercs for Idi Amin and Gaddafi.

Seriously not just Hamas that ruined the cause but also PLO.

Dont forget how the PLO trained Asala and PKK fighters.

This is still talked about by many Turks even if its forgotten but a lot of Turks havent forgotten it either.

PLO even invaded Jordan which led to Pakistani intervention.

We can talk about Israel's crimes everyday but we can also talk about various Palestinian groups and their misdeeds.
 

Marquis de Sade

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PLO comitted so many crimes they even fought as Mercs for Idi Amin and Gaddafi.

Seriously not just Hamas that ruined the cause but also PLO.

Dont forget how the PLO trained Asala and PKK fighters.

This is still talked about by many Turks even if its forgotten but a lot of Turks havent forgotten it either.

PLO even invaded Jordan which led to Pakistani intervention.

We can talk about Israel's crimes everyday but we can also talk about various Palestinian groups and their misdeeds.

That wasnt my point, my point was that the world had more sympathy for the PLO and the PFLP even they had bigger and more bloody actions.

They hijacked trains in Czechoslowakia, they hijacked almost every week a airplane and let them explode at Dawsons Field, they hijacked that big cruiseship in Italy, they were the first that used paragliders to attack militairy bases, they attacked zionist bankers (*Edward Sieff*) and sympathizers all over the world.

They even recruited foreign fighters like Carlos the Jackal who kidnapped Arabian ministers at a OPEC-meeting in Vienna, or Patrick Arguello from Venezuela who together with Layla Khaled hijacked a El Al plane and almost blow it up in London. They attracted other militants like those 3 Japanese guys who orchestrated a massacre at Lod Airport and later on occupated the French embassy in the Netherlands.

And even then the PLO and PFLP had legal offices and shelters in Paris, Rome, Algiers, Madrid, Berlin, Tripoli, Moscow. Who wants to shelter Hamas now?

Their posters hung on the same wall as Bob Marley and Che Guevara and Arafat was a guest in every country, meeting with the Pope, coming to the UN General Assembley with a olive branch.

The Palestinian resistance was symbolized in movieclips of Michael Jakson and was a spearpoint in many marxistic ideolygies and the beliefs of revolutionairy youth.

Israel couldnt beat that much propaganda at her own.

Thats why politicial islamist organisations like Hamas were invented to kill that international sympathy and the symbol of resistance.

Thats why they try to put Hamas and ISIS at the same place. If you can connect ISIS to Hamas, the you will connect the Palestinian resistance to ISIS.
 
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Ryder

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They have trampled his ideals and erased his traditions across the spectrum. He is just used as a figurehead to sway the right wing masses around election time and then put away.

Ataturk can mean anything today depending on who uses the symbolism as a tool.

A lot of founding figures in a lot of countries have now become more like figure heads.

George Washington is even having his statues pulled down

I dont think George Washington approve of the USA and its world police foreign policy the reason why the USA was founded was to leave Europe and its problems behind.

In Turkiye, Ataturk has become more of symbolism.
 

Zafer

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They are not Palestines army. There a lot of indications and reports that Hamas was created by the Mossad as a rival to Yasser Arafat.

Hamas harmed Arafat, harmed PLO, harmed the Oslo accords and damaged the reputation of the Palestinian resistance.

Even when marxist Palestinian groups hijacked airplanes, cruiseships and trains, attacked airports all over Europe, they created more sympathy than Hamas.

Hamas frustrated since 1987 everything that Arafat and his PLO achieved, its like the Black September organization that suddenly attacked the Israeli Olympian athlets for the eyes of the whole world. For what?

Hamas is controlled opposition and sometimes Israel lose the control.

It is said that Hamas is founded by the Brits but whoever it is founded by Palestine is entitled to raise an army and defend theselves.
 

GoatsMilk

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That wasnt my point, my point was that the world had more sympathy for the PLO and the PFLP even they had bigger and more bloody actions.

They hijacked trains in Czechoslowakia, they hijacked almost every week a airplane and let them explode at Dawsons Field, they hijacked that big cruiseship in Italy, they were the first that used paragliders to attack militairy bases, they attacked zionist bankers and sympathizers all over the world.

They even recruited foreign fighters like Carlos the Jackal who kidnapped Arabian ministers at a OPEC-meeting in Vienna, or Patrick Arguello from Venezuela who together with Layla Khaled hijacked a El Al plane and almost blow it up in London. They attracted other militants like those 3 Japanese guys who orchestrated a massacre at Lod Airport and later on occupated the French embassy in the Netherlands.

Their posters hung on the same wall as Bob Marley and Che Guevara and Arafat was a guest in every country, meeting with the Pope, coming to the UN General Assembley with a olive branch.

The Palestinian resistance was symbolized in movieclips of Michael Jakson and was a spearpoint in many marxistic ideolygies and the beliefs of revolutionairy youth.

Israel couldnt beat that much propaganda at her own.

Thats why politicial islamist organisations like Hamas were invented to kill that international sympathy and the symbol of resistance.

Thats why they try to put Hamas and ISIS at the same place. If you can connect ISIS to Hamas, the you will connect the Palestinian resistance to ISIS.

Its fascinating how the internet is filled with information that connects Hamas to Israeli intelligence. All the Muslims are getting their knickers in a twist for these Isreali backed terrorist shills, without realising they are all being played.

Hamas is meant to destroy the palestinian sides arguments to allow the Isrealis to expand and annex land. Its working perfectly. Its interesting that any common person can do some research and see the facts for themselves, but all so-called Muslims leaders won't call a spade a spade. Instead they help legitimise the Isrealis by giving oxygen to Hamas. Muslim leaders should just come out and say Hamas is no more then an Isreali tool, they are behind them and they use to them to serve Isreali imperial policy. The perpetual false flaggers to destroy any possibility of two state solution and to open the door for Isreali expansion.

Will the common Muslim wake up, nope he won't. He will continue down the path of regressive failure. The common Muslim is yet again being played for an ignorant fool. You Muslims going to keep allowing the Jews to one up you, to deceive you? Are 12 million Jews really more intelligent then 2 billion Muslims?

Imagine not one Muslim speakers went on that piers morgan show and revealed all the information that showed Isreals deep involvement with hamas. In essence to fall for this "hamas" trick you are actually fighting for Isreali imperialism to succeed.

When the failure hakan fidan came out and said "hamas is not a terrorist organistation" he really should have said "hamas today is predominatly a product of Isreali intelligence, designed to facilitate Isreali expansionism." But Muslim leaders telling the truth, that won't happen.
 
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Marquis de Sade

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Its fascinating how the internet is filled with information that connects Hamas to Israeli intelligence. All the Muslims are getting their knickers in a twist for these Isreali backed terrorist shills, without realising they are all being played.

Hamas is meant to destroy the palestinian sides arguments to allow the Isrealis to expand and annex land. Its working perfectly. Its interesting that any common person can do some research and see the facts for themselves, but all so-called Muslims leaders won't call a spade a spade. Instead they help legitimise the Isrealis by giving oxygen to Hamas. Muslim leaders should just come out and say Hamas is no more then an Isreali tool, they are behind them and they use to them to serve Isreali imperial policy.

Will the common Muslim wake up, nope he won't. He will continue down the path of regressive failure. The common Muslim is yet again being played for an ignorant fool. You Muslims going to keep allowing the Jews to one up you, to deceive you?

Imagine not one Muslim speakers went on that piers morgan show and revealed all the information that showed Isreals deep involvement with hamas.

Exactly, and nobody asks how a political islamist murderer like Sheich Yassin was released from a Israeli prison to create Hamas in 1987 (*despite he had so much Israeli blood on his hands*), but secular Palestinian fighters like Marwan Bargouti or just rock throwing teenagers get a life sentence or a very long administrative detention in a Israeli prison without the smallest chance to get a release.

The first thing Hamas did in the '90's was blowing up empty bus-stations and pizzeria's to frustrate the Oslo Peace accords.

Erdogan needs to read "Me, my own enemy" written by Israeli ex-soldier Yoram Binoer.
 

GoatsMilk

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Exactly, and nobody asks how a political islamist murderer like Sheich Yassin was released from a Israeli prison to create Hamas in 1987 (*despite he had so much Israeli blood on his hands*), but secular Palestinian fighters like Marwan Bargouti or just rock throwing teenagers get a life sentence or a very long administrative detention in a Israeli prison without the smallest chance to get a release.

The first thing Hamas did in the '90's was blowing up empty bus-stations and pizzeria's to frustrate the Oslo Peace accords.

Erdogan needs to read "Me, my own enemy" written by Israeli ex-soldier Yoram Binoer.

I was ignorant of hamas and wasn't really that interested in the isreali/palestinian conflict. As far as i was concerned the Arabs made their bed when they betrayed the Turks and stabbed our people in the back. Today we look after millions of Arabs and no part of the ummah gives a shit. So, this is an arab problem, not a Turk problem. But i decided to click on some of the links posted on here connecting Hamas to Isreali intelligence and then within about 2 hours of searching, listening and reading i pretty much figured exactly what Hamas is.

So Muslims to continue falling for this Hamas trick, to argue how they are the good guys you are basically falling for the jews and their tricks. Lets call a spade a spade, otherwise in thinking you are fighting for the palestinians you are actually fighting for Isreali expansionism.

Are you Muslims going to wake up? Or are you going to keep making it so easy for your enemies to manipulate you?

Hamas is designed to destroy Palestine and facilitate Isreali expansionism, its been working and it continues to work. No, Muslim leader is pointing out this connection, that means most of them are on board with the agenda. There is no way head of intelligence Fidan doesn't know exactly what Hamas is and who is behind them.

The jews must be laughing all the way to the bank how easily they deceived the world over their hamas product. At the end of the day if the common Muslim doesnt use the brain Allah gave him, no amount of screaming Allah is Great will change the terrible condition the muslim world is in.

All the imams, dawah grifters and so called Muslim leaders, if none of them are talking about Hamas and its ties to Isreali intelligence, i would stay away from them since they are most likely compromised. Most likely working for the enemy.
 
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Ryder

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It is said that Hamas is founded by the Brits but whoever it is founded by Palestine is entitled to raise an army and defend theselves.

Palestinians are too divided thats the problem.

They are too busy bickering among themselves.

Since most Turks are Muslim and most Palestinians are Muslim. Its pretty normal for most Turks to express sympathy for Palestine.

It was also pretty normal for Turkish people to express sympathy especially for Muslims regardless of where they are.

Some Turks even fought as volunteers in Bosnia, Kosovo, Azerbaijan and Chechnya.

No foreign policy will succeed if it runs on a high horse humanitarian crap.

Turkiye has so many problems I mean we cant even save our Uygur brothers and sisters what makes people think we can go and save Palestine?

Turkiye is not a superman.

Azerbaijan largely suceeded because it helped itself first then Turkiye helped them.

Azerbaijan played some highly good chess moves and they suceeded.

Palestinians should look at Azerbaijan as an example if they want to liberate their lands.

I dont expect Palestine to get much support from their Arab bretheren. Their Arab brothers lost so many wars against Israel and left them to fend for themselves.
 
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Bozan

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As the Turkish government and foreign policy continues to shout about supporting Hamas, more of the private sector is being sanctioned.



Türkiye-based company Trend GYO, designated in May 2022 as part of Hamas’s investment portfolio, is a key component of Hamas’s global asset holdings which had previously been estimated to be worth over $500 million. Trend GYO currently has three primary shareholders: Türkiye-based Alaeddin Senguler, Gulsah Yigidoglu, and Arwa Mangoush.

Alaeddin Senguler, Gulsah Yigidoglu, and Arwa Mangoush are being designated pursuant to E.O. 13224, as amended, for having materially assisted, sponsored, or provided financial, material, or technological support for, or goods or services in support of, Hamas.
 

Marquis de Sade

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Palestinians are too divided thats the problem.

They are too busy bickering among themselves.

Since most Turks are Muslim and most Palestinians are Muslim. Its pretty normal for most Turks to express sympathy for Palestine.

It was also pretty normal for Turkish people to express sympathy especially for Muslims regardless of where they are.

Some Turks even fought as volunteers in Bosnia, Kosovo, Azerbaijan and Chechnya.

No foreign policy will succeed if it runs on a high horse humanitarian crap.

Turkiye has so many problems I mean we cant even save our Uygur brothers and sisters what makes people think we can go and save Palestine?

Turkiye is not a superman.

Azerbaijan largely suceeded because it helped itself first then Turkiye helped them.

Azerbaijan played some highly good chess moves and they suceeded.

Palestinians should look at Azerbaijan as an example if they want to liberate their lands.

I dont expect Palestine to get much support from their Arab bretheren. Their Arab brothers lost so many wars against Israel and left them to fend for themselves.

Israel doesnt have the time the Armenians have, because Palestinians got the fertility rate the Israelis dont have.

Armenia could wait and wait because they thought they had Russia, their lobby in the US and their wealthy diaspora on their side. With that time Azerbaidjan build a rich economy and good militairy.

The Palestinians cant build a militairy because Israel hasnt enough time, every year they strike and bomb them and their facilities.

Israel has a population of 9 million and they have 1 million settlers in occupied territories.

2 million of the Israeli population are Arab Palestinians.

Then you got Gaza with 2,3 million Palestinians.

And the West Bank with 2.7 million Palestinans.

Those are 7 million Palestinians, combine that with the 5 million Palestinians from the refugee camps in the Arab world, you got 12 million.

The Palestinians are winning via the whomb and Israel knows this. Thats why they strike Gaza and want them to flee to the Sinai.

Israel has 3 achievements:

1.- Depopulate the Palestinian population.
2.- Conquer the Gaza Marine Oil Fields (*clearing Gaza*)
3.- Build the Third Tempel at the Al Aqsa site (*clearing Jerusalem*).

Just when China Petroleum started negotiations about the Gaza Oil Fields with the PLO, Hamas "attacked" Israel.
 
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wolveray1

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Tbh,palestenian strategy of fighting against israel like hamas is not working.
They have been trying for decades.
Maybe what they need is protesting in peace.
Just bring a lot of cameras around and video all the brutalities by israeli force againsr them during peace march even that means death....just like Ghandi in India.
Todays war is also about information war.
They need to create sympathies from around the world that can force israel to give them independence.
 

Gary

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Tbh,palestenian strategy of fighting against israel like hamas is not working.
They have been trying for decades.
Maybe what they need is protesting in peace.
Just bring a lot of cameras around and video all the brutalities by israeli force againsr them during peace march even that means death....just like Ghandi in India.
Todays war is also about information war.
They need to create sympathies from around the world that can force israel to give them independence.

To the contrary, opting peace would provide Israel with the vital victory it desperately seeks. The current status quo offers the greatest advantages to Israel. If Palestinians were to opt for peace instead of conflict, leaders like Bin Salman would happily embrace diplomatic relations with Israel, citing the non-violent nature of Palestinian "peaceful protests" to justify their cooperation with Israel.

This situation is perilous because the Saudis, with their Salafist influence, will amplify whatever the Saudi Clown Prince asserts. If the Saudi prince endorses something, you can expect their Salafist-funded networks in Indonesia and Malaysia to use Quranic verses to validate it, even if it primarily benefits Israel. Malaysia and Indonesia, in particular, has a substantial Salafi community, I happen to talk with some of these Saudi-backed Salafi movement, many of whom are inclined to support whatever the Saudis do, my worry is that Saudi normalization with Israel will be used to justify global muslim cooperation with the Zionists which is unacceptable and we will find it hard to justify the long term goal of destruction of the country after that.

For short term goal, we're leaving the long term goal, the destruction (total) of the Zionist state.

You mentioned that sympathy could lead to Palestinian independence, but can't you see that Palestine currently receives considerable sympathy from global protests? Has it put an end to the violence? Sometimes, achieving independence isn't attainable through sympathy and often depends on imposing a cost on the adversary.

War, although painful, is detrimental to Israel and provide long term advantage to Palestine if only more people understood this.
 
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Bozan

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Marquis de Sade

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Eh, yes, i am afraid that this time Albert Pike's prediction about World War 3 would come true, because everything is coming out of control now.

This situation feels like the unresty atmosphere of the summerdays before World War 1 broke out.

"Those who shed crocodile tears for Ukraine; Now they are silent about the developments in Gaza."

"Those who were worried about Ukraine, support Israel today, their hands are contaminated with spilled blood."

"The Israeli regime and some other parties are behind the scenes of some terrorist groups in northern Syria and Iraq."

"Of course, Israel will not last even 3 days without the support of Western countries. Turkey is trying to introduce Israel as a war criminal in the world."

- Recep Tayyip Erdogan
 
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Bozan

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President Erdoğan: "Under the concepts expressed by the Israeli rulers at the highest level, a map of betrayal will emerge from all of them including the territory of our country."

Goodbye energy hub goals


The man is promoting conspiracy theories about jews



 

Rooxbar

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What does being reduced to 'pagan idol' means? Irrelevant?

I imagine, Ataturk will stay relevant as long as the Turkish Republic lives and beyond.

It is not possible even for the fierce critic of Ataturk's policies and ideals, (if he is honest) to deny him. Son can disagree with father as much as he want, but he cannot deny him or render him insignificant. Without Ataturk, it is very hard to imagine Türkiye in its current shape and size (Or at all.)

If you are a conservative, then it is almost like, God chose him to save the Turkish state and its people.
The same regressive forces who were willing to give half of Anatolia as a gift of gratitude to the English, and issued death warrants for Atatürk, through a 50 year process and using the democratic opportunities that the Republic gave them eroded the Republic and its institutions in a creeping counter-revolution. The counter-revolution is not fully achieved yet, but the slow process has made the masses oblivious to its extent. There are ways to reverse it, but no opposition idealist and shrewd enough to know and enact it exists; because this regressive force through the full-fledged force of the state, has propagandized about 30 to 40% of the population fully to the cause of regressive counter-revolution and another 10 to 20% useful idiots are also along for the ride. These masses are lost, and the opposition and secular population doesn't know the recipe to win them back. The only thing they know is the emotional reaction (of belittling, of preaching to the choir to placate their hurt feelings, of withdrawing into their shells, doubling down on the mistakes of the past, etc.) which only results in more and more polarization and ossification of the regressive ideologies in the opposing side.

So if a calculated reversal of the counter-revolution by secular elements does not seem possible, the only way to gain back these masses is for the counter-revolution (mainly in the form of Islamic propaganda and "imams, imams everywhere") to saturate the public perception to the point of surfeit, this being ideally accompanied by a total failure in economy; only this can result in the disillusionment of the rustic neo-urbanite elements with Islamism. This can only be achieved if the surfeit lasts for decades. This wouldn't be an effective strategy in many other places because the regressive elements would have nothing to fall back on after the disillusionment process, so they might fall back on the easy alternative to their islamism, i.e. the dominant excessive form of their already held ideology (islamism-->salafism); but here, thanlfully, they have the example of the republic so there's the chance that at least a good number of them will fall back on Atatürk. At the very least it will happen to their children.

This is the only natural sociological evolution that can result in the redemption of the Turkish nation, unfortunately. If I know Islamists, they will go on this path and bring about their own demise, because if they continue with the half-assed islamism of today, this will result in their electorate always having a secular opposition to hate and define themselves against. Only full power of their representatives can make them reach the point of surfeit in their representative's incompetence and the associated ideology that goes with it. And this full power, thankfully, Islamists always seek. It will be a long and arduous process, taking at least 25 years, but I believe that's how things will go and, esp. as the information age progresses, the reality of other nations who embrace expertise and science (instead of dogmatic religiosity which inevitably leads to nepotistic corruption) prospering while Turkey stagnates and regresses, will be unbearable for them and their children as well and they will only have the Islamism of their leaders to associate with this failure.
 
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