TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

[Rooxbar]

Funny coming from the Chinese channel, because they're not an American ally and still don't oppose Israel. They made the J-10 and J-20 thanks to Israel.

The channel is platforming anyone who is willing to poo-poo Israel, defend Hezbollah, etc. while China is over there saying "We want to live in love and peace with the world, please don't downgrade our credit rating, we love Israel and Hezbollah should disband itself."

 

[Heartbang]

Funny coming from the Chinese channel, because they're not an American ally and still don't oppose Israel. They made the J-10 and J-20 thanks to Israel.

Don't we have veto rights on all-non tripartite military establishments? (anyone else but TR-GR-UK?)

 

[Iskander]

You are proving my point.

Yes, Israel and the Jewish lobby is actively working against Turkey but let's not forget who started this "Cold war"- it was Erdogan with his ambitions to be a Muslim leader and protector of Palestinians who provoked it (Davos, Mavi Marmara and etc). Out of nowhere he created problems and helped old ones to become even bigger.

I can write more and more but don't really want to waste time for stuff that we have discussed 1000 times before.

Yes, Erdogan started it all. He started with his speech in January in Switzerland, at a panel dedicated to restoring peace in the Middle East and Gaza.

That's how he "restored" peace
He was offended there by the American presenter of Greek origin Ignatius. And he ... exploded. And then and now I consider his speech a big mistake.
Erdogan announced "zero problems with neighbors" that same year.
(Probably few people remember the "Zurich Protocol" today, which provided for the opening of the border with Armenia)
The following year, he sent Mavi Marmara to Gaza.
In 2016, Obama himself decided to reconcile him with Netanyahu. Netanyahu personally asked for a petition for Marmara. But...
This, so to speak, policy has been going on for 15 years

 

[Tabmachine]

Never pay attention to what they say, everything they say is meant to distract, destabilise you or influence your actions in their favour. Only pay attention to what they do and once you do that, everything they have done is consistent and everything they do moving forward will be consistent.

I dont care how many positive or negative things they have said about Turkiye, what i can see is their PKK policy has been consistent, didn't matter who came in and who went out, the agenda remained the same. I treat American foreign policy as if a total dictatorship is calling the shots, because a thousand elections wont change its course.

Only thing that can effect it or change it, is the power the opposing side has to bring to the table.

“The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can “throw the rascals out” at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy.”

― Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time"

For the most part American elections are just theatre.

In England for example even the common lay person can see how both parties labour and conservative are nearly identical in policy and outlook. Nothing changes except that the agenda persists.

You might find this an interesting read, relevant to what you're saying here: https://graymirror.substack.com/p/narrative-and-reality-in-trump-47

 

[guest12]

It started at early 90s with First Gulf War(gas atack on Iraq Kurds and no fly zone ban ) and became offical with Second Gulf War(hood event).Erdogan's Davos thing was the day we started our active retalation towards them thats all.

 

[Asena_great]

It started at early 90s with First Gulf War(gas atack on Iraq Kurds and no fly zone ban ) and became offical with Second Gulf War(hood event).Erdogan's Davos thing was the day we started our active retalation towards them thats all.

relationship between turkey and Israel was never linear it was up and downs but erdogan push it off the cliff its started in 70s when the turkish leftist kidnap Israel's ambassador btw if you dont know palestine were training all kind of leftist terrorist group around the world including turkish leftist PKK and ASALA as well as islamic groups under the umbrella of Hizb ut-Tahrir with the goal of controlling other countries and use its resources fo Palestinian cause. Israel wanted to negotiated army would have none of it they issue house to house search in istanbul they finded the leftist and the shooting started as resulted the leftist killed the ambassador before being killed. the next escalation was during kenan evren era when americans refuse to give loan to turkey and they give a humiliating loan of 1 million dollar while others like greeks were getting hundreds of millions of dollar both in aide and loans. as resulte kenan evren allowed turgut özel to join the islamic organization and seek money there this give rise to radicals in Israel that turkey is not reliable and they need a new neighbor that is hated by all of its neighbor except israel and that country is kurdistan. however things were not always bad israel help turkey with capture of abdullah öcalan when he was hiding in greek embassy in kenya it was israelis who flash him out allowing general engin alan's commandos to capture him another example is the armor upgrade of m60 patton tanks they were upgraded by Israel its prove its worth as in afrin when PKK destroy leopard tanks army used these upgraded m60s and they were highly successful one more example is also the israel's drone sales to turkey which highly influence drone development in turkey as well as help TSK in fight against PKK finally i can add jewish lobby which help turkey in the US and blocked the armenian genocide in congress.

we people here tend to see US or Israel as enemy as of they are one entity we completely ignore the power brokers and the lobbyist there things could have improved but Erdogan clearly pushed it off the cliff in a way that it will never be repaired again. relationship with west is like a holding an egg if you press it too hard then you will break it if you dont hold it tide enough then it will fall and you will break it again 28 şubat generals were the one who doing it best from one hand they fight pkk they opposed kurdistan but never publicly show any hostility toward west but rather show turkey as friend and ally while behind curtain tried to lobby for turkey they knew if you say something bad publicly then you will have hard time beating the anti turkish lobbyist and anti turkish media in the west now defending turkey is political suicide in west and armenian and greek lobby is taking full advantage of it. Israel turkey relationship ruined all for the sake of islamist 31ing their islamic fantasies the same goes for Egypt-turkey, Syria-turkey and India-turkey relationships


edit : i still remember the islamist "if you dont support palestine then you are a jewish agent " logic during 90s and 2000s were if you even hint that maybe you should work with Israel for interest of turkey you declared traitor / alevi / mason / jew etc, now behold the fruits of that generation bankruptcy a semi-dictatorship, demographic crisis, geopolitical disaster and self hating generation with identity crisis not to mention the German Turkish diaspora that they poisoned in 90s and 2000s not only they wont help us now they are producing Islamic jihadist damaging our image, marrying to arabs lobbying for them while the more secular ones completely abandons turkish identity and beginning assimilating and becoming German agian all for the sake of islamist 31ing their islamic fantasies

 

[Iskander]

The Islamic Republic of Iran "will soon announce the death of its Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei," claims Donald Trump's former National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster, - Azerbaijani media report

 

[Iskander]

«US President-elect Donald Trump's son-in-law Kared Kushner will play a key role in the new administration's efforts in the Middle East.

CNN reported this with reference to its sources.

The source noted that Kushner is unlikely to hold an official position, but will be a "key figure" in Trump's policy in the region. So, the son-in-law of the new head of the White House has good relations with many leaders of the Middle East.

Earlier, "Financial Times" wrote that Trump's son-in-law will not return to the White House during the new Republican administration. The newspaper noted that Kushner was a senior adviser to the US President during his previous term of office and played a key role in the negotiations of the "Abraham Accords", which established diplomatic relations between a number of Arab states, including Israel, the UAE, Bahrain, Sudan and Morocco.

Kushner has said several times that he is not interested in returning to government, but Trump's victory and the current crisis in the Middle East may cause him to change his mind».
(Azerbaijani website "Auna")

https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/15/politics/jared-kushner-trump-middle-east-policy/index.html

I have been asked several times, like, how is this possible? Your president's wife is... vice president.
I always answered jokingly, like, it's an accident

But that's not what I'm talking about. They probably remember how Blinken, a year ago, flew to Israel and publicly declared: - "I came here not only as the US Secretary of State, but also as a Jew."

Whose interests will Kushner be looking after?
You know, I have been closely following the F-35 deliveries to Turkey, but I still don't understand where this issue was being decided - in Washington? or in Israel

 

[GoatsMilk]

relationship between turkey and Israel was never linear it was up and downs but erdogan push it off the cliff its started in 70s when the turkish leftist kidnap Israel's ambassador btw if you dont know palestine were training all kind of leftist terrorist group around the world including turkish leftist PKK and ASALA as well as islamic groups under the umbrella of Hizb ut-Tahrir with the goal of controlling other countries and use its resources fo Palestinian cause. Israel wanted to negotiated army would have none of it they issue house to house search in istanbul they finded the leftist and the shooting started as resulted the leftist killed the ambassador before being killed. the next escalation was during kenan evren era when americans refuse to give loan to turkey and they give a humiliating loan of 1 million dollar while others like greeks were getting hundreds of millions of dollar both in aide and loans. as resulte kenan evren allowed turgut özel to join the islamic organization and seek money there this give rise to radicals in Israel that turkey is not reliable and they need a new neighbor that is hated by all of its neighbor except israel and that country is kurdistan. however things were not always bad israel help turkey with capture of abdullah öcalan when he was hiding in greek embassy in kenya it was israelis who flash him out allowing general engin alan's commandos to capture him another example is the armor upgrade of m60 patton tanks they were upgraded by Israel its prove its worth as in afrin when PKK destroy leopard tanks army used these upgraded m60s and they were highly successful one more example is also the israel's drone sales to turkey which highly influence drone development in turkey as well as help TSK in fight against PKK finally i can add jewish lobby which help turkey in the US and blocked the armenian genocide in congress.

we people here tend to see US or Israel as enemy as of they are one entity we completely ignore the power brokers and the lobbyist there things could have improved but Erdogan clearly pushed it off the cliff in a way that it will never be repaired again. relationship with west is like a holding an egg if you press it too hard then you will break it if you dont hold it tide enough then it will fall and you will break it again 28 şubat generals were the one who doing it best from one hand they fight pkk they opposed kurdistan but never publicly show any hostility toward west but rather show turkey as friend and ally while behind curtain tried to lobby for turkey they knew if you say something bad publicly then you will have hard time beating the anti turkish lobbyist and anti turkish media in the west now defending turkey is political suicide in west and armenian and greek lobby is taking full advantage of it. Israel turkey relationship ruined all for the sake of islamist 31ing their islamic fantasies the same goes for Egypt-turkey, Syria-turkey and India-turkey relationships


edit : i still remember the islamist "if you dont support palestine then you are a jewish agent " logic during 90s and 2000s were if you even hint that maybe you should work with Israel for interest of turkey you declared traitor / alevi / mason / jew etc, now behold the fruits of that generation bankruptcy a semi-dictatorship, demographic crisis, geopolitical disaster and self hating generation with identity crisis not to mention the German Turkish diaspora that they poisoned in 90s and 2000s not only they wont help us now they are producing Islamic jihadist damaging our image, marrying to arabs lobbying for them while the more secular ones completely abandons turkish identity and beginning assimilating and becoming German agian all for the sake of islamist 31ing their islamic fantasies

The best thing for zionism is for a Turkish state to make herself an enemy of everyone including isreal. That way you limit the influence and power a nation like Turkiye can wield. If im a zionist i want Turkiye to be openly hostile against me, then i justifiably and openly use all my tools of global influence to screw that enemy. When the Turkish state was balanced the zionists even had to do good things for us at times, now they can just screw us.

If your america, eu, russia, china, india you will love this Turkiye that steps into every trap and creates hostility. Because what used to happen is they all worried that if they shit on Turkiye to hard you force Turkiye into the hands of their rivals and no one wanted that considering the geography and character of the Turks. But when you work to isolate yourself everyone thinks they can screw Turkiye because he's all alone.

The americans/europeans worried about relations with Russia and vice versa. The Chinese didnt want Turks supporting India or making an issue of the Uyghurs. Like wise the Indians didn't want a Turkiye going balls deep in their support of Pakistan. Turkiye had lots of leverage should anyone choose to attack us, but when you piss everyone off you have no leverage and you invite trouble. Obviously this is a basic analysis but the Turkish position should always have been balanced and measured. And truth be told when pursuing geopolitical interests only one bloc at a time could have been challenged, because you needed to use the weight of all your relationships as leverage in your favour. With the aim to make small incremental gains over a hundred to two hundred year period.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

You are overestimating things... Israel is not as all-powerful as you think. A large part of Europe is not absolutely pro-Israeli through and through and the countries that were or are neutral towards Israel are slowly developing a certain aversion, there would be Spain, France, partly even Italy and the Nordic countries are rather negative towards them because they expect a new refugee crisis to Europe and nobody in Europe wants that!
They only have Germany/Austria firmly by the balls, where they can repeatedly crush the balls from Germany/Austria and move them around as puppets.

The Eurofighter deal proves that it's not that simple - the Germans refused for a long time because they were also influenced by Isreal.
The British, who don't really give a shit about the Israelis, don't care what happens in the Gaza war.

You just don't know the old Turkey, from the 70s to the late 90s. It was a supplicant and was also perceived as such in Europe, the USA and Asia.

Now it is blackmailing these countries and playing them off against each other.
The Swedes were totally pro-left with terrorist organizations like the PKK/YPG, if a country like Turkey pushes through a constitutional amendment in the Swedish parliament against terrorist organizations then that is power and influence we have gained by blackmailing them to allow joining to the NATO after constitutional amendment!
If a country like Germany/France tries several times in their plans to force a change of government in Turkey by influencing public opinion through media houses in Turkey that are paid by them or certain people like Mr. Kavala who then also make politics are banned and their media houses are banned. Erdogan is doing what he wants or have you seen that Erdogan has somehow been stopped from doing what he wants? They are seething with rage because he can fuck them whenever he wants and they can't do anything.

They tried to attack the country via the economy/currency with rating agencies, but that's not going according to plan either. Turkey is still there and so is Erdogan.

The worst thing that could have happened was that the Turkish arms industry developed for 15-20 years unnoticed by the media and governments abroad with all their think tanks.
The Europeans in particular, including Germany/France and Greece, went into a state of shock, including Israel/USA. They did not expect Turkey to have created an entire industry with a stable supply chain out of nothing, at least not on such a large scale.
They thought an embargo and a few sanctions would get them back on track for their sphere of influence, but that wasn't the case.

 

[Tabmachine]

The best thing for zionism is for a Turkish state to make herself an enemy of everyone including isreal. That way you limit the influence and power a nation like Turkiye can wield. If im a zionist i want Turkiye to be openly hostile against me, then i justifiably and openly use all my tools of global influence to screw that enemy. When the Turkish state was balanced the zionists even had to do good things for us at times, now they can just screw us.

If your america, eu, russia, china, india you will love this Turkiye that steps into every trap and creates hostility. Because what used to happen is they all worried that if they shit on Turkiye to hard you force Turkiye into the hands of their rivals and no one wanted that considering the geography and character of the Turks. But when you work to isolate yourself everyone thinks they can screw Turkiye because he's all alone.

The americans/europeans worried about relations with Russia and vice versa. The Chinese didnt want Turks supporting India or making an issue of the Uyghurs. Like wise the Indians didn't want a Turkiye going balls deep in their support of Pakistan. Turkiye had lots of leverage should anyone choose to attack us, but when you piss everyone off you have no leverage and you invite trouble. Obviously this is a basic analysis but the Turkish position should always have been balanced and measured. And truth be told when pursuing geopolitical interests only one bloc at a time could have been challenged, because you needed to use the weight of all your relationships as leverage in your favour. With the aim to make small incremental gains over a hundred to two hundred year period.

Also all of the religious optics and posturing in international communications (since Davutoglu i guess?). The Arabs are not ready to be allies, let alone reliable allies, either in their civil society or in their halls of power, so that approach was basically like hitching your wagon to a horse without legs.

Nothing wrong with being religious personally, or culturally imo, but its gotta stay out of the foreign policy realm. (as well not be used for demagoguery in election cycles but that is another conversation)

I think Deng Xiaopeng's foreign policy maxim, really speaks to the point your making: "Hide your strength, bide your time".

 

[selim]

You are overestimating things... Israel is not as all-powerful as you think. A large part of Europe is not absolutely pro-Israeli through and through and the countries that were or are neutral towards Israel are slowly developing a certain aversion, there would be Spain, France, partly even Italy and the Nordic countries are rather negative towards them because they expect a new refugee crisis to Europe and nobody in Europe wants that!
They only have Germany/Austria firmly by the balls, where they can repeatedly crush the balls from Germany/Austria and move them around as puppets.

The Eurofighter deal proves that it's not that simple - the Germans refused for a long time because they were also influenced by Isreal.
The British, who don't really give a shit about the Israelis, don't care what happens in the Gaza war.

You just don't know the old Turkey, from the 70s to the late 90s. It was a supplicant and was also perceived as such in Europe, the USA and Asia.

Now it is blackmailing these countries and playing them off against each other.
The Swedes were totally pro-left with terrorist organizations like the PKK/YPG, if a country like Turkey pushes through a constitutional amendment in the Swedish parliament against terrorist organizations then that is power and influence we have gained by blackmailing them to allow joining to the NATO after constitutional amendment!
If a country like Germany/France tries several times in their plans to force a change of government in Turkey by influencing public opinion through media houses in Turkey that are paid by them or certain people like Mr. Kavala who then also make politics are banned and their media houses are banned. Erdogan is doing what he wants or have you seen that Erdogan has somehow been stopped from doing what he wants? They are seething with rage because he can fuck them whenever he wants and they can't do anything.

They tried to attack the country via the economy/currency with rating agencies, but that's not going according to plan either. Turkey is still there and so is Erdogan.

The worst thing that could have happened was that the Turkish arms industry developed for 15-20 years unnoticed by the media and governments abroad with all their think tanks.
The Europeans in particular, including Germany/France and Greece, went into a state of shock, including Israel/USA. They did not expect Turkey to have created an entire industry with a stable supply chain out of nothing, at least not on such a large scale.
They thought an embargo and a few sanctions would get them back on track for their sphere of influence, but that wasn't the case.

After Turkey rejected participation in 2003 Iraq invasion there were many ugly events like Hood incident which you can not explain with "Erdogan is Islamist he hates Israel".
Last 20 years USA did everything in Middle East without considering any Turkish interests, when in doubt they convincingly chose anti-Turkish decisions like leaving Manbitch to Russia.
There's this faction who believes once Turkey shuts up, stays inside its own borders, and uses MIT like in the old days to spy on your mother / sister whether they're carrying headscraf or not instead of MIT doing outside operation, Turkey will prosper and be left alone.
No.
Why did they not accept Turkey into EU althouh Turkey's EU application predatesd Erdogan's rise to power by decades.
USA granted countries like Jordan free-trade agreement, why not grant it to Turkey? Allthough Turkey hosted USA nuclear weapons, U2s etc, and USA bombing almost every trading partner of Turkey ?

 

[selim]

Turkey needs strong partners and allies in Muslim world.
Unfortunately Arab world is completely embedded into US imperial structure.
If Turkey were in war with Israel today countries like UAE, Saudi would be on opposite side of Turkey scheming, planning, plotting to hit Turkish economy.
Saudi, UAE could stop whole Israel madness in Mid-East by embargoing oil-exports to West, but they don't do it.
Monarchy, Regime survival is priority for them - Who can save their Monarchies and deploy let's say 50.000 soldiers when people rise-up ? --> USA.
That's the only reason they're in bed with Israel given Jewish control of US congress.
I don't accuse them of being convinced Israel lovers, they simply know only USA could save their regimes.

I believe someday people of this region will rise-up, probaly statring from Egypt.
UAE is totally artificial country of about 10 million with only 1 million true Emiratis, rest are basically slave-labors.
Once Saudi or Egypt falls cards will be shuffled anew.
MBS in Saudi maybe rules S.Arabia, but these are tribal societies. MBS' father still lives and is considered unchallenged King (tribal leader), we'll see if Saudi Arabian society will accept MBS's NEOM, Jew-loving aspirations once actual King dies.

 

[selim]

So, on the one hand we have Imperialists spending trilliions of $ on war since 9/11.
Clearly trying to change borders of Iraq, Syria and likely Iran.
Who comes next if they suceed ? Turkey ! Independed of Erdogan ruling Turkey or not !
They're trying to create some kind of PKK/YPF/SDF - Kurdish state with access to Mediteranean or at least access to Israel via Syria land-bridge to Israel.
In that area of operation they placed USA GI Jonnys as human shields, personal bodyguards to people like Mazlum Abdi and also shot down Turkish UAVs.
This situation is unbearble, either we can compromise with Trump or US-Turkish relations will become very hostile-

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Turkey needs strong partners and allies in Muslim world.
Unfortunately Arab world is completely embedded into US imperial structure.
If Turkey were in war with Israel today countries like UAE, Saudi would be on opposite side of Turkey scheming, planning, plotting to hit Turkish economy.
Saudi, UAE could stop whole Israel madness in Mid-East by embargoing oil-exports to West, but they don't do it.
Monarchy, Regime survival is priority for them - Who can save their Monarchies and deploy let's say 50.000 soldiers when people rise-up ? --> USA.
That's the only reason they're in bed with Israel given Jewish control of US congress.
I don't accuse them of being convinced Israel lovers, they simply know only USA could save their regimes.

I believe someday people of this region will rise-up, probaly statring from Egypt.
UAE is totally artificial country of about 10 million with only 1 million true Emiratis, rest are basically slave-labors.
Once Saudi or Egypt falls cards will be shuffled anew.
MBS in Saudi maybe rules S.Arabia, but these are tribal societies. MBS' father still lives and is considered unchallenged King (tribal leader), we'll see if Saudi Arabian society will accept MBS's NEOM, Jew-loving aspirations once actual King dies.

You can't rely on the Arabs in the governments at the moment, they are only out to maximize the power of their families/tribes.
The second is that in their eyes Turkey is just as much an enemy as Israel, with the exception of Qatar & Co.
They are forced to let Israel have its way and to some extent they also want Israel to exercise dominance in the region.
Firstly, to have Turkey and Iran under control by Israel/USA.
Secondly, as many already know, Israel is covered by the USA and is virtually invulnerable.
They in turn, as you have already noticed, are responsible for maintaining the power of their royal families and tribes, governments in Saudi Arabia, UAE & Co.
I don't think that all the people of Saudi Arabia, UAE & Co are totally happy about what the USA/Israel has been doing in the Middle East for decades.
If the conflict continues like this there will be a revolt sooner or later, the citizens are not happy with the way their governments are destroying and burning the Middle East.
I have met many people of Arab, Moroccan and Tunisian descent in Germany who are more fixated on Erdogan than their own governments, who are totally passive and do not address things that are wrong in the Middle East.
They even think that a modified Ottoman Empire in the form of an EU/NATO would make more sense as all countries would join forces and exert pressure because the Arab League is a total farce where the royal families, rulers and the like just jerk each other off.

 

[Iskander]

You can't rely on the Arabs in the governments at the moment, they are only out to maximize the power of their families/tribes.
The second is that in their eyes Turkey is just as much an enemy as Israel, with the exception of Qatar & Co.
They are forced to let Israel have its way and to some extent they also want Israel to exercise dominance in the region.
Firstly, to have Turkey and Iran under control by Israel/USA.
Secondly, as many already know, Israel is covered by the USA and is virtually invulnerable.
They in turn, as you have already noticed, are responsible for maintaining the power of their royal families and tribes, governments in Saudi Arabia, UAE & Co.
I don't think that all the people of Saudi Arabia, UAE & Co are totally happy about what the USA/Israel has been doing in the Middle East for decades.
If the conflict continues like this there will be a revolt sooner or later, the citizens are not happy with the way their governments are destroying and burning the Middle East.
I have met many people of Arab, Moroccan and Tunisian descent in Germany who are more fixated on Erdogan than their own governments, who are totally passive and do not address things that are wrong in the Middle East.
They even think that a modified Ottoman Empire in the form of an EU/NATO would make more sense as all countries would join forces and exert pressure because the Arab League is a total farce where the royal families, rulers and the like just jerk each other off.

Or leave the Arab-Israeli problems to the Arabs and Israelis...

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Or leave the Arab-Israeli problems to the Arabs and Israelis...

In my opinion the best solution would be for them to tear each other apart and for Turkey to simply close the borders with a very wide and very dense concrete mix of beton walls and steel fence from Armenia -> Iran -> Syria -> Irak with drone patrols watching flights 24 hours a day like the USA does with Mexico.
Then you won't have any PKK/YPG problems at home because you will also be disrupting their network too, but there is no political will here, whether AKP, MHP, CHP or anyone else.
Nobody will do that. If we were to propose this to the EU. They would certainly support it, they don't want these people no matter what their human rights charter says.

 

[Iskander]

In my opinion the best solution would be for them to tear each other apart and for Turkey to simply close the borders with a very wide and very dense concrete mix of beton walls and steel fence from Armenia -> Iran -> Syria -> Irak with drone patrols watching flights 24 hours a day like the USA does with Mexico.
Then you won't have any PKK/YPG problems at home because you will also be disrupting their network too, but there is no political will here, whether AKP, MHP, CHP or anyone else.
Nobody will do that. If we were to propose this to the EU. They would certainly support it, they don't want these people no matter what their human rights charter says.

I can agree with all your proposals regarding the Middle East. Regarding the "Charter of Man", I have long been convinced that this Charter, speaking about Man, means only the "progressive part of humanity" (in other words - the West), but not the «regressive» Middle East, and in general Asia and Africa.

 

[Asena_great]

@IC3M@N FX @selim i dont know what to tell you your post is just showing how brainwashed you are all of your info including " erdogan rejected participation in 2003 Iraq invasion" in fact erdogan did eveything he could to help americans to land in turkey and invaed iraq and AKP voted for invasion but 28 şubat generals oppsied him and AKP needed 2/3 majorty in parliament which islamist couldnt get

in the left ismail hakkı karadayı cheif of general staff during 28 şubat in the right erdogan president of turkey
​

@IC3M@N FX @selim ok since you claim turkey was supplicant in 90s let us compare ismail hakki karadayı and erdogan lets see who is supplicant and who successfully defied the imperialist's plan and protected turkey

there are even more evets during 90s but these are the point i could fit in the picture. just like erdogan haveing american protected YPG on the other side of border ismail hakki karadayı had turgut özel's mini kurdistan protected by hammer force (americans english and french soldiers ) despite they threat turkey and declared they will protect kurdistan ismail hakkı daradayı ordered the opration çelik in order to destroy the turgut özel's mini kurdistan and hand over the norhren iraq to central iraqi government

left picture leaders of çelik opration from right to left Osman Pamukoğlu Hasan Kundakçı and İlker Başbuğ futuer cheif of general staff that was puttin in jail in ergenekon and balyoz kumpas trail during tayypçi fetöcu iktidar of AKP-Fetö-PKK alliance in 2000s in the right picture "Gazi, sultangai Mahallesi olayları"

in iraq front

when TSK gather forces near border and everyone realized their attention islamist started alevi- sunni fight in istanbul the famous "Gazi, sultangai Mahallesi olayları" where army had to put it down fast. this brought time for PKK to prepare and for the west to put pressure on 28 şubat generals to stop the operation but ismail hakki karadayi didnt stop it and attacked the american soilders in northren iraq had to run and pkk left alone now erdogan have same situation with YPG and he is supplicant to the imperialist plan the west using their pawn and media blackend the name of our generals and their tactics worked as during ergenekon balyoz and 28 şubat kupas trial those who were defiant the US punished by court full of tarikat and cemaat including fetullah gulen's tarikat

Çelik Harekâtı - Vikipedi

tr.wikipedia.org

Operation Hammer (1997) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Operation Dawn (1997) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

erdogan supported the invasion of iraqand he is responsible for kurdistan in iraq while 28 şubat generals follow the bitlis doctrine and prevented the foreign powers to gain foot hold in the region
in syrain front

jitem oprtated beyond border of turkey this include syria were they had multiple assasination attempt on öcalan including mehmut yeşil. the opration were give away by turgut özel and tansu çiller and öcalan survived. later arif doğan the founders of jitem stand trailed and sentence to jail during çözüm süreci

28 şubat generals successfully defeated islamist treachery during sincan kudus gecesi where islamist invited iranian ambassdor and call for sharia regime general çevik bir sealed the weapon deal and received f16s super cobra helicopters etc and stop the jewish lobby from kicking turkey out of f35 program when turkey recived the weapons turkey threatend war with Syria despite they had defence pact with iran and syria forced to deport öcalan he later captured in africa by kommandos of general engin alan. he was later arrested and sentance to 18.5 years in jail during ergenekon and balyoz kumpas trails

erdogan in order to 31ing his islamic fantasy strike a deal during çözüm süreci and brought the PKK terrorist from iraq to kobani in syria via turkish soil they even gave them lahmacun when PKK was entering the border. now erdogan created a kurdistan in syria which is protected by US and we got 13 million refugees as resulte when gorge soros said refugees need to stay in turkey erdogan said we wont sent them back. PKK lobby tried hard in west to remove the PKK from terrorist list by saying turkey is working with us but they faild now the bahçeli and erdogan wanting to brning öcalan to parliment to speak im sure this time PKK will be remove from the list and all the right given to us for cross border opration by international law will be lost to us and we will soon have kurdistan in turkey with this new çözüm süreci by erdogan

Cyprus front

Christian motorcycle gang from Americans to Canadians to Irish to British all of them came to Cyprus to cross the UN buffer zone to pull down Turkish flag. this was happening a summer before 28 şubat and 28 şubat generals open fired on the greek who cross the buffer zone and tried to pull down our flag then the 2 UN British soldiers who encourage the greek to pull down the flag were shot not fatally

another thing was the assassination attempt on hüseyin kıvrıkoğlu as he was army inner circle and fetö was on rise after 28 şubat around 250 fetöcu fired from army alng with around 750 other tarikat members. he was the only cheif of general staff that openly accouse west on helping pkk and he almost gone on war with the US over Kirkuk if paul wolfowitz deputy of secretary defence included kirkuk in Kurdistan he said we will enter from north.
hüseyin kıvrıkoğlu is the general who faoumusly said " if irtica gonna last for 1000 years so does 28 şubat"

and paul wolfowitz find a suitable replacement for him for tarikat member himi özkök become chief of general staff after him at 2002 the same year that akp won in parliament

the Çuval Olayı in 2003 happend during the tarikat member himi özkök time he was pro US and he sold all the hüseyin kıvrıkoğlu's men during Çuval Olayı as they were trying to created a turkmenli in iraq later when erdogan open the kozmik oda the name of all the iraqi turkmens working with 28 şubat generals revealed and later killed by peshmerga

now lets see what erdogan did he threated and forced Turkish cyprus to say yes in 2004 unifications referendum aka annan plan

2004 Cypriot Annan Plan referendums - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

he put admiral cem gürdeniz the father of mavi vatan in jail during ergenkon and balyoz trials now abondon the mavi vatan and now with the new çözüm süreci he is negotiating on how to give up Cyprus to greek and we only hear the news from greek media because erdgoan banned the news from turkish media

agean sea front

during kardak island crisis 28 generals sucessfully defened turkish right and as result forced US to sell some of the advanced weapons in a way that the turkis airforce become strongest airforced in islamic world and it has equpment that not even UK airforce had at the time ofc iranian used their pawn in erbakan's refah party to stop the deal during sincan kudus gecesi but diplomatic skill of general çevik bir save the day

now lets see what erdogan is doing during infamous " no problem with neighbors " aka give taviz to all neighbors with well know watermelon selling diplomacy tayyip gave away several islands then when greek violated the treaty of lausanne were state that greeks cant move population to the island cant make constructions on the island and cant militarized the island instead of stop the greek not only erdogan did nothing he allowed to greek islanders to buy supplies from turkish mainland making it easier for greek to populate the island and when we ask why are you helping the greeks he answerd oh trade is good for economy WTF. not only the " no problem with neighbors " didnt solved any problem but now with the second çözüm süreci greeks are demanding more

the enemy within

sady i cant post more picture in one post but lets start with islamist whom wanted regime change, working with saudia arabia and iran. iran used islamist to break the weapons deal between turkey and US the also have diyanet imam murdered and let the murderer to flee to iran while. iran also supported any sharia groups who wanted to over throw the republic and condemned TSK's opration in iraq. saudi arabia weaponized the hajj pilgrimage aginst turkish state and used to create radical jihadist who wanted to end democracy in turkey. they also finance the islamist groups the most famouse one was abdulah gül one of the founder of AKP they make him rich so he could create party and win elections another group was al-hariri familiy in lebenon they also invested in AKP and after they came to power erdogan gave türk telekom to them. cemalettin kaplan declared his caliphate from city of köln and in his inter view with 32 gün said democrasy is a christian practice thats why democrasy need to end in turkey. islamist start working with all the enemies of republic from pkk to armenians to iran and arabs westrens. şeviki yılmaz erbakan's refah paty's member of parliment said we must work with all intelligent service in other to overthrow the athiest regime and bring sharia law. he later said PKK did the wrong thing they took up arms before they came to power we will took up arms after we come to power ( genociding secularist) he later said either we will rise like muslim of iran to overthow the regime or we will bring a muslim party to power and finish the job softly and turkish army cant protect turkey. and finally with yeşil sermaye islamist scam mostly conservative german turks up to 4 billion euros in order to do politics. one of the 18 demands of 28 şubat was to put an end to yeşil sermaye and return the remaining money to the victims the reasons that the turkish diaspora in germnay is weak and we never saw doctors/engineers/lawyers/bussiness man generation like armenian diaspora was becouse islamist (erbakan fetullah gulen abdullah gul adnan oktar erdogan etc) took their money and ran with it some in germany committed suicide. i can go on and on on islamist terrorism but im too tired to type but the famouse one are the hizbullah and sivas massecare.

all that i mention above lead to 28 şubat and generals put 18 demand in front of erbakan and demanded him to sign them


im too tired to type more

in 2000s when ergenekon balyoz and 28 şubat kupas trail were on full swing and 2004 annan plan for cyprus, clearing mines from border and çözüm süreci was breaking the country apart Yaşar Büyükanıt make a last attempt to save the republic he meet with AKP's puppet masters. in the meeting with cheif of general staff of US army peter pace he said "those(the west) who trying to break apart turkey (via AKP) will only find nightmares"


edit : @IC3M@N FX @selim tell me again who successfully defended turkey and who is a "büyük ortadoğu projesi eşbaşkanı" and "garson devleti" ??

 

[Asena_great]

at the first 10 min of the videos above you can see conservatives german turks whom were scammed up to 4 billion dollar begging to turkish government to return the money islamist have stolen. one of 18 demand of 28 şubat generals was to put an end to yeşil sermaye

this book explain the whole thing

general hüseyin kıvrıkoğlu visited the commander of 1st army çetin doğan and ask whether himi özkök is member of tarikat since he is next in line to become cheif of general staff. in 90s army created 2 group to fight the 2 greatest threat the republic was facing batı çalışma grubu which was resonsible for threat of irtica (fetö adnan oktar and tarikats) doğu çalışma grubu responsible for fighting PKK .

çetin doğan was in batı çalışma grubu he was able to put his man into many tarikats including Fetö's this allowed 28 şubat generals to identify them and fire them from army. sadly when general hüseyin kıvrıkoğlu ask whether himi özkök is a member of tarikat, çetin doğan mistakenly identify him as conservative and the rest is 2000s and history