TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

[Ryder]

Abdulhamit II was a mediocre ruler. He was not a magnificent ruler AKP voters like to believe he had many shortcomings and failings and he has some success stories. The empire lost territory as big as 2x Turkiye in his rule. He was also not as evil as CHP voters portray him. He tried his best to keep together a crumbling empire but he wasn't a man of adequate caliber. Ottoman empire needed another Fatih Sultan Mehmed(Mehmed II the Conqueror) to keep things together he was certainly not a man of that caliber. Empire kept declining during his rule.

Enver, Cemal, and Talat took over the empire as the last hurrah and thought they might be able to save the empire with a big gamble as there was nothing else to do but they didn't know that they were not the men meant to play the hand they were dealt with similar to their predecessor Abdulhamit II. Every experienced statesman knew that the dying sick man was beyond saving. Big powers agreed to partition the lands of the empire by the late 1800s. Every big power of the time turned down the Ottoman offer of alliance before the WW1. Ottomans were kept alive by the grace of Great Britain big time and when the GB understood Ottoman Empire can't be kept alive artificially, GB thought it is better to split it on its term than the others. Ottomans did everything to side and participate in the WWI on the side of the Entente but were turned down. Ottomans then tried to replace Great Britain with Germany to cling to life. Even Germany was hesitant at first to ally with Ottoman Empire as they thought Ottoman empire will be a liability.

100% agree man.

@TheInsider you nailed it brother

 

[Ryder]

Man, this could be the plot of Star Wars episode VIII, IX, totally lost track!

Ottoman decline and collapse is a very interesting topic that is overlooked.

I suggest everybody to read and research it it was a crazy period with lots of pain, tragedy and intrigue.

Decline and collapse also explains today's Turkiye's position. Even today we feel the aftermath.

 

[Lool]

Ottoman decline and collapse is a very interesting topic that is overlooked.

I suggest everybody to read and research it it was a crazy period with lots of pain, tragedy and intrigue.

Decline and collapse also explains today's Turkiye's position. Even today we feel the aftermath.

Agreed tbh
This is why current Turkey should learn from Ottoman's mistakes and learn from them

It truly hurts to see some turks actually hate the Ottoman empire and their heritage. Most nations love their heritage even though they werent nearly as successful as the Ottomans. Russians love their Soviet Union even though it didnt do anything noteworthy. Japan loves its imperial heritage even though they massacred thousands of Chinese and Koreans at the time. Greece till this day loves their Byzantine legacy. Even Britain, till this date, loves its imperial heritage which was once known as they empire which the sun never sets in

Truly, the Ottomans werent perfect but they had one of the most successful empires known in history; hell, it survived for arond 600-800 years.... Thats like 6-8 centuries for Gods sake. The only empires to surpass them were probably the Roman, Byzantines (although some controversy remains on this one) and Pharaonic empires that lasted for thousands of years; some empires in India did last for 1000+ years as well but Iam not quite sure of this part

They were the only non-Western empire to actually conquer most of Europe and they were the ones who introduced Islam to many parts of the world. Till this date, you can still find Ottoman buildings not only in Turkey but in Europe as well

Even the US with its mighty army and media control that brainwashes thousands if not millions of ppl everyday, cant even keep their worldwide influence intact for a 100 years at least. Rn, we can see many nations starting to rise up to US

Honestly, turks should take pride that they left their mark in history; not only through the Ottomans but through myriads of empires that the turks have created over time

 

[Ryder]

Agreed tbh
This is why current Turkey should learn from Ottoman's mistakes and learn from them

It truly hurts to see some turks actually hate the Ottoman empire and their heritage. Most nations love their heritage even though they werent nearly as successful as the Ottomans. Russians love their Soviet Union even though it didnt do anything noteworthy. Japan loves its imperial heritage even though they massacred thousands of Chinese and Koreans at the time. Greece till this day loves their Byzantine legacy. Even Britain, till this date, loves its imperial heritage which was once known as they empire which the sun never sets in

Truly, the Ottomans werent perfect but they had one of the most successful empires known in history; hell, it survived for arond 600-800 years.... Thats like 6-8 centuries for Gods sake. The only empires to surpass them were probably the Roman, Byzantines (although some controversy remains on this one) and Pharaonic empires that lasted for thousands of years; some empires in India did last for 1000+ years as well but Iam not quite sure of this part

They were the only non-Western empire to actually conquer most of Europe and they were the ones who introduced Islam to many parts of the world. Till this date, you can still find Ottoman buildings not only in Turkey but in Europe as well

Even the US with its mighty army and media control that brainwashes thousands if not millions of ppl everyday, cant even keep their worldwide influence intact for a 100 years at least. Rn, we can see many nations starting to rise up to US

Honestly, turks should take pride that they left their mark in history; not only through the Ottomans but through myriads of empires that the turks have created over time

Out of all Turkic and Islamic Empires.

The Ottoman Empire was the strongest and the most longest lasting. A whopping 600 years.

Most Turkic Empires like thr Gokturks and Timur collapsed in a short amount of time.

Our Mongol cousins Empire was bigger than the Ottoman Empire but within 100 years they collapsed. Our Hunnic ancestors empire collapsed within decades.

Turkic Empires especially nomadic ones have always had short spans. They conquered lots and kicked ass in a amount of short time but in a short time they collapsed.

Ottomans basically started off ass Nomadic but over time they mixed nomadic traditions with sedentary life then you have the synthesis of Turkic/Mongol, Islamic and Roman traditions.

Ummayad Empire was the biggest Islamic Empire but did not live for 100 years.

I see the Ottoman Empire as the apex of both Turkic and Islamic history.

Anybody can disagree but nobody cant deny it the Ottomans built themselves an empire worthy of respect and admiration.

I would say the second Turkic Empire that lasted long was Babur Empires. Babur Empire lasted for 300 years.

You dont get much Turkic Empires that lasted that long. The Seljuk empire itself only last 157 years.

Timurs Empire collasped just after he died while Nader Shahs empire collapsed within 60 years.

Our history was like a Tsunami. We had such a big impact while at the same time our impact did not last for long. But the Ottomans on the other hand lasted around 400 to 600 years.

 

[Ryder]

I dont want to stray off topic.

But the Seljuk Turks actually had plans to conquer Egypt rather than Anatolia until the Byzantines attacked the Seljuks with provoked attacks on their empire.

Now think of how different foreign policy would be if the Seljuks conquered Egypt.

Would modern day Turkiye be in Modern day Egypt?

Lots of historians discussed Egypt came close to be Turkifed of it wasnt for the Byzantine Empire.

Seljuk Conquest led to huge numbers of Turks moving into Anatolia.

Now imagine huge numbers of Turks moving into Egypt. In other words Egypt nearly close to being Turkic land rather than Arab.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Agreed tbh
This is why current Turkey should learn from Ottoman's mistakes and learn from them

It truly hurts to see some turks actually hate the Ottoman empire and their heritage. Most nations love their heritage even though they werent nearly as successful as the Ottomans. Russians love their Soviet Union even though it didnt do anything noteworthy. Japan loves its imperial heritage even though they massacred thousands of Chinese and Koreans at the time. Greece till this day loves their Byzantine legacy. Even Britain, till this date, loves its imperial heritage which was once known as they empire which the sun never sets in

Truly, the Ottomans werent perfect but they had one of the most successful empires known in history; hell, it survived for arond 600-800 years.... Thats like 6-8 centuries for Gods sake. The only empires to surpass them were probably the Roman, Byzantines (although some controversy remains on this one) and Pharaonic empires that lasted for thousands of years; some empires in India did last for 1000+ years as well but Iam not quite sure of this part

They were the only non-Western empire to actually conquer most of Europe and they were the ones who introduced Islam to many parts of the world. Till this date, you can still find Ottoman buildings not only in Turkey but in Europe as well

Even the US with its mighty army and media control that brainwashes thousands if not millions of ppl everyday, cant even keep their worldwide influence intact for a 100 years at least. Rn, we can see many nations starting to rise up to US

Honestly, turks should take pride that they left their mark in history; not only through the Ottomans but through myriads of empires that the turks have created over time

The further back you go the easier it was to last. For example a whole country today can be destroyed and conquered within weeks because of technology. At the start of the Ottoman era it was not uncommon to take many years to successfully lay siege to one fort.

What makes the Ottomans impressive is how many ages they survived through. 1299 until world war one. Ancient Egypt for example 2000 years could pass and the technology of warfare was nearly entirely the same.

The Ottomans went from swords to bombs being dropped from planes. Even more impressive that the Turkish state as the successor to the Ottoman state, with its founder Ataturk being the last great Ottoman soldier is unconquered. How many countries can claim such a long period of history of going unconquered. And Turkey isn't like England or Japan on the fringes of the world protected by waters, its right in the middle of 3 continents.

 

[Ryder]

Greeks in short kicked the hornets nest.

Thats why for centuries the Greeks suck at foreign policy as all the shit they cry about was brought on by them.

Attacks the Seljuks. Seljuks conquer most of Anatolia.

Beg the pope and start the crusades.

Crusades in turn sack your capital.



But but its all the Evil Turks fault. That explains why Greece has been irelevant for centuries and today their foreign policy is not so different make other countries fight your battles.

Then live with the consequences again and again.

 

[Ravenman]

Didn't Abdelhamid lose most of the empire?

Wasn't this the same guy over paranoia destroy the Ottoman fleet which was the 3rd largest on earth at the time?

No he didnt. He lost no territory in 33 years of reign. First the Young Ottomans (none of them were Turks) under the leadership of Mithat Pasha killed his uncle Abdulaziz, then they put the retard Freemason Murat V on the throne. With his mismanagement and increasing taxes the chaos and resistance in Bosnia, Bulgaria, Romania and the whole of the Balkan region turned in a massive forest fire. Then Mithat Pasha kicked Murat V from the throne and brought a young Abdulhamid II on power in 1876. He forced him to establish a parliament and a constitution like the European monarchies, so the Grandvizier could controll the state together with the Sultan.

So you had a young Sultan with limited power at the throne of a state with huge debts and a ruined economy and insurgency in all of the territories. Then one year later in 1877 the Russian Empire attacked us, because they put a list with demands about the Balkans, the Straits and the Orthodox Church in front of us, wich our ministers rejected.

The Ottoman-Russian War ('93 Harbi') of 1877 started and we lost because of a tired army and incompetent ministers. The Sultan had no power in this war and had no permission to take action. After this war, he established a regime change; declaring the parliament and the constitution null and void and firing and arresting most ministers of his cabinet and he took full power.

Theoretically Abdulhamid II lost territory in this war, yes. But he had no power, and nothing to say in this. But after this war he lost nothing and he curtainly did not destroy the navy. He spend his whole life with upgrading of the Ottoman armed forces, the economy and education.

 

[Ryder]

No he didnt. He lost no territory in 33 years of reign. First the Young Ottomans (none of them were Turks) under the leadership of Mithat Pasha killed his uncle Abdulaziz, then they put the retard Freemason Murat V on the throne. With his mismanagement and increasing taxes the chaos and resistance in Bosnia, Bulgaria, Romania and the whole of the Balkan region turned in a massive forest fire. Then Mithat Pasha kicked Murat V from the throne and brought a young Abdulhamid II on power in 1876. He forced him to establish a parliament and a constitution like the European monarchies, so the Grandvizier could controll the state together with the Sultan.

So you had a young Sultan with limited power at the throne of a state with huge debts and a ruined economy and insurgency in all of the territories. Then one year later in 1877 the Russian Empire attacked us, because they put a list with demands about the Balkans, the Straits and the Orthodox Church in front of us, wich our ministers rejected.

The Ottoman-Russian War ('93 Harbi') of 1877 started and we lost because of a tired army and incompetent ministers. The Sultan had no power in this war and had no permission to take action. After this war, he established a regime change; declaring the parliament and the constitution null and void and firing and arresting most ministers of his cabinet and he took full power.

Theoretically Abdulhamid II lost territory in this war, yes. But he had no power, and nothing to say in this. But after this war he lost nothing and he curtainly did not destroy the navy. He spend his whole life with upgrading of the Ottoman armed forces, the economy and education.

Ottoman navy which Abdulhamid II inherited was largely obsolete. Navy was expensive and technology was constantly advancing.

Still Abdulhamid II believed a land invasion was more possible than a naval one. Still had issues he did not trust the navy which was another factor in why the Ottoman navy became behind. There were actually plans for the Ottomans to build a pre dreadnought ship called the Abdulkadir but it was expensive and became obsolete overtime due to the British newly built Dreadnought which literally rendered every ship obsolete overnight.

93 harbi the Russians used a land route rather than a sea route to invade the capital.

After the Balkan wars and the Italian invasion of libya the Ottomans knew how important it was to have a navy that the Ottomans ordered dreadnoughts and submarines. Orders got cancelled by the British and the French. While the two dreadnoughts the Ottomans paid got confiscated and the money all gone.

In ww1 Ottomans were left with a crappy navy even with a crappy navy the navy still saw action in the Black Sea, Aegan Sea and the Eastern Med.

 

[Lool]

And yet these pricks wanna Turkey to not VETO their NATO joining bid

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529450983616561153

 

[Tornadoss]

And yet these pricks wanna Turkey to not VETO their NATO joining bid

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529450983616561153

Not for defending Sweden but there are also US-made AT-4s. So, I am not sure if these are given by Sweden or US.

 

[Sami1234]

Foreign Minister of the apartheid regime in occupied Palestine referring to Turkeiy as a "Kebab" state these Zionists mother fuckers making funny of it on twitter.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529506867440979970

 

[Bayraktar TB2]

Not really.. he is being friendly that's all. He also said all Jews originated from Turkey. Who cares, what some schmuck says on twitter?

 

[Heartbang]

Foreign Minister of the apartheid regime in occupied Palestine referring to Turkeiy as a "Kebab" state these Zionists mother fuckers making funny of it on twitter.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529506867440979970

bcuz its Shishkebab, not Souvlaki.

 

[TheInsider]

MGK (National Security Council) chaired by Erdogan decided to launch a military operation in Syria. Opening moves are in motion. Turkish artillery started softening artillery barrages and troops are getting in position. Military operation will be similar to operation Olive Branch (Afrin) a slow and steady counter-terror operation with a big emphasis on keeping the infrastructure intact and suffering minimal losses.

 

[Lool]

MGK (National Security Council) chaired by Erdogan decided to launch a military operation in Syria. Opening moves are in motion. Turkish artillery started softening artillery barrages and troops are getting in position. Military operation will be similar to operation Olive Branch (Afrin) a slow and steady counter-terror operation with a big emphasis on keeping the infrastructure intact and suffering minimal losses.

Fucking finally mate
We should celebrate for Gods sake
This should have been done long ago

 

[TheInsider]

It seems like initially Tal Rifat and Manbij area will be targeted. Another front can be opened east of the Euphrates to link the areas west and east of the Euphrates. YPG is negotiating with the US to at least station some troops in Ain Al Arab(Kobane). Local sources report that TSK representatives warned the Iranian militia near Aleppo not to cooperate with YPG forces in Tal Rifat and Manbij. TSK will treat those as hostiles if they don't behave.

 

[Heartbang]

It seems like initially Tal Rifat and Manbij area will be targeted. Another front can be opened east of the Euphrates to link the areas west and east of the Euphrates. YPG is negotiating with the US to at least station some troops in Ain Al Arab(Kobane). Local sources report that TSK representatives warned the Iranian militia near Aleppo not to cooperate with YPG forces in Tal Rifat and Manbij. TSK will treat those as hostiles if they don't behave.

if TSK does not target ain-al-arab at some point in this op i will be FUCKEN FUMING! thats the motherlode, we should go there ASAP!

 

[Lool]

It seems like initially Tal Rifat and Manbij area will be targeted. Another front can be opened east of the Euphrates to link the areas west and east of the Euphrates. YPG is negotiating with the US to at least station some troops in Ain Al Arab(Kobane). Local sources report that TSK representatives warned the Iranian militia near Aleppo not to cooperate with YPG forces in Tal Rifat and Manbij. TSK will treat those as hostiles if they don't behave.

Wtf, they wont target Ain al Arab? This is insanity
If TSK didnt target Ain al Arab, then this operation is fqing useless IMO

 

[TheInsider]

Wtf, they wont target Ain al Arab? This is insanity
If TSK didnt target Ain al Arab, then this operation is fqing useless IMO

"Initially".

It seems like initially Tal Rifat and Manbij area will be targeted. Another front can be opened east of the Euphrates to link the areas west and east of the Euphrates. YPG is negotiating with the US to at least station some troops in Ain Al Arab(Kobane). Local sources report that TSK representatives warned the Iranian militia near Aleppo not to cooperate with YPG forces in Tal Rifat and Manbij. TSK will treat those as hostiles if they don't behave.