TR HÜRJET-Advanced Jet Trainer/ Light attack aircraft

[Indos]

It doesn't matter who thinks what. The official roadway and the course of the works have been progressing in this direction for about one and half year and the targeted flight will be made on the said date, unless there is a mishap.

That is the proper way of preparing a new development of aircraft, you need to be critical on TAI official statements, previously Hurjet first prototype is also said to be ready in early 2022 where the statement then is revised into late 2022 which I think is still possible despite further delay into early 2023 is also very much possible.

I think just making ground test of several months before doing maiden flight shows how political interest can intervene on this program. I know they want to do maiden flight on 108th anniversary of the Çanakkale Naval Victory (WWI Gallipoli campaign).

The safe way to make the program success is to do the ground test properly, based on the way it should be in engineering perspective, not skipping some phase in order to get political score.

At the moment also there is no confirmation on GE whether F 404 will be used for Hurjet, I hope there should be no problem on this thing.

https://www.geaviation.com/military/engines/f404-engine

 

[Cabatli_TR]

That is the proper way of preparing a new development of aircraft, you need to be critical on TAI official statements, previously Hurjet first prototype is also said to be ready in early 2022 where the statement then is revised into late 2022 which I think is still possible despite further delay into early 2023 is also very much possible.

I think just making ground test of several months before doing maiden flight shows how political interest can intervene on this program. I know they want to do maiden flight on 108th anniversary of the Çanakkale Naval Victory (WWI Gallipoli campaign).

The safe way to make the program success is to do the ground test properly, based on the way it should be in engineering perspective, not skipping some phase in order to get political score.

At the moment also there is no confirmation on GE whether F 404 will be used for Hurjet, I hope there should be no problem on this thing.

https://www.geaviation.com/military/engines/f404-engine

I tell the statements of the chief engineers working on the project and general manager and you talk about your thoughts. Which one do you think we should consider? Ofcourse everyone will share their thoughts but From the beginning, what I see is that everyone who knows/doesnt know about details of these projects gives lecture about what is possible and what is not possible. I frequently advise these people to be patient and follow these projects carefully because you cannot understand what Turkey is doing without taking into account the internal dynamics so such big projects in Turkey don't work as you might guess from the outside.

Behind all of them, there is a billion-dollar political support and this authority wants definitive assurances about what will be done and when. Even the determined dates are chosen with fine adjustments and launched as a kind of challenge day (18 March 2023- Hurjet, T929, MIUS first flight, TFX roll-out) to the world against embargo decisions and the general managers work under intense pressure to keep these dates. While Tusaş is trying to increase the number of its employees to 20000, on the other hand they are developing multiple strategic helicopter, drone, satellite and fixed wing aircraft projects at the same time. That's why their statements and goals become more important than anything else.

Turkey is currently working with an effort close to a performance that can only be shown by the industry of a country at war. There are the same reasons behind Turkey's decision to manufacture 3 frigates at the same time. Engineers/technicians often work even outside working hours. The prototypes of the developed Tank engines, for example are exhibited only at the first day of the 4day fair and the other days were brought back to the test environment to avoid wasting time. Other side, Together with hundreds of subcontractors, more than thousands parts are localized in the country. For all these reason, comparing the big projects of Turkey with the time scale of the projects of other countries will not give you the right result. Unless there is a major mishap, flights will be made on the given dates and it won't end after the first flight. These tests will continue until 2025 and mass production will begin.This is what I'm talking about.

To give an example, the T625 project flew on the predetermined 6 September 2018, but there is some delay in the delivery date due to certification. First deliveries will likely be made in a few months.

 

[Zafer]

People do not need to see to believe that planes will fly and fly well. We have confidence that development efforts will bear fruit in due time and goals will be achieved. Setting ambitious timeframes do not garner additional political scores but make developers give their best to show the nation's capabilities and boost confidence. There are still many more achievements to be made to realize the nation's true potential and there is a window of opportunity when conditions are right to make it happen. We can not be wasting time. It is our time to shine.

 

[Yasar_TR]

@Indos
re : engines for Hurjet
As far as we know there is no hold up for the prototypes of the planes being built regarding engines.
Most important point is the serial production stage and the engines. There is a contract signed for 80 engines for serial production. Hence the decision to go ahead with the serial production is taken after engines are contracted.
Like most of us here we are hoping that this contract involves either a license production or some form of local manufacturing of these engines at TEI factories.
These 80 engines are only tasters. There will be many more engines for this plane. Ideally I would like to see an indigenous engine in later versions.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Bulshits

Facts:
1. All partners of F35 programs left THE SIGNED AGREEMENT and made new one and Left Turkiye Alone. This was and still is LEGAL EMBARGO in way which usa did to not want to follow signed agreement with Turkiye.

2. Turkiye started and it is Ongoing Legal Sue according to Interntional LAW and second sue in usa accroding to usa laws about F-35.
Mean that Turkiye give money and there are Turkish OWNED F-35 by tha LAW of the Agreement in usa hand.
At moment usa is in place of Robber and holding Turkiye money and F-35 prodcued and own by Turkiey as hostage.

3. There is PASSED Legal Congress Document which enforce usa president and as such Trump signed SAYING that F-35 is forbiding Turkiye to own this platform.

4. There are usa congressments and parties which at moment have MAJORITY in such laws


All above are Current state and FACT.
So you forgeting all above and just saying BLA BLA BLA we/Turkiye just Chit Chat with some usa officals and They said We will fix the problem with Turkiye
We will give you F35 60 -70 80 bal bla 1000. etc
There was NOT ANY Such Thing Happend in usa history in such way!!

I am sorry to say but this thing smell like there are "wanna be usa slave" and this is this kind of Naive and stupid thinking

Americans dont sell Turks weapons because they like us. They sell us weapons because its in their interests, the moment it isnt in their interests they restrict them. This shouldn't come as surprise, we are not dealing with Turks who think a deal is a deal, say no more. A deal to the USA is all about power and personal interest.

Its not in americas interest to completely shut Turkey down, because all that happens is their competitors gain Turkish business and strategic value. But its not in their interest either that we become so strong that we don't need them. Then all that happens is we work against their greater middle east ambitions.

The problem with the Turkish character is that we need to suffer a shock to wake up, we have to suffer first before we learn. The embargo over Cyprus was a big wake up call, but it took that embargo to wake the Turks up. Likewise the F35 is another wake up call, we needed to suffer this embargo to realise the importance of making our own weapons.

Even if we got the 100 F35 planes you are still reliant on american parts, the moment they stop selling you parts within a year or two you have no airforce. Not to mention when they have that power over you, they can influence what you do and don't do.

As Turks from day one we had to succeed on our own means, everything else is no good in the long term.

 

[Indos]

@Indos
re : engines for Hurjet
As far as we know there is no hold up for the prototypes of the planes being built regarding engines.
Most important point is the serial production stage and the engines. There is a contract signed for 80 engines for serial production. Hence the decision to go ahead with the serial production is taken after engines are contracted.
Like most of us here we are hoping that this contract involves either a license production or some form of local manufacturing of these engines at TEI factories.
These 80 engines are only tasters. There will be many more engines for this plane. Ideally I would like to see an indigenous engine in later versions.

I cannot comment on the engine side until GE announced the contract for Hurjet officially but I do hope what you said is true. In order to get maximum TOT there should be a tender going on, as far as I know TAI has prepared 2 design for different engines to power Hurjet, American and European one.

Without an open tender, I dont see there will be huge TOT or local production given by GE. Same thing also happen with Indian Tejas, they dont get local manufacturing for F 404 engine despite ordering around 80 of them, this is why they want to work with Safran from France ( although it can be Safran just make assembling factory in India ).

I still suggest Turkey to work on engine for cruise missile and UCAV to develop capability on jet engine, this way it is more achievable and more production volume to be created particularly for the cruise missile one as it can be some where like 1000 engine being procured.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

TAAC Hürjet

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1483129867730309120

 

[Ardabas34]

TAAC Hürjet

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1483129867730309120

Eyleyici?
What does that mean?

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Eyleyici?
What does that mean?

Actuators

 

[Yasar_TR]

I cannot comment on the engine side until GE announced the contract for Hurjet officially but I do hope what you said is true. In order to get maximum TOT there should be a tender going on, as far as I know TAI has prepared 2 design for different engines to power Hurjet, American and European one.

Without an open tender, I dont see there will be huge TOT or local production given by GE. Same thing also happen with Indian Tejas, they dont get local manufacturing for F 404 engine despite ordering around 80 of them, this is why they want to work with Safran from France ( although it can be Safran just make assembling factory in India ).

I still suggest Turkey to work on engine for cruise missile and UCAV to develop capability on jet engine, this way it is more achievable and more production volume to be created particularly for the cruise missile one as it can be some where like 1000 engine being procured.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441357909032673281

According to above news tweet in September 2021, Prof Mahmut Aksit had announced that they are in negotiation with GE to be able to produce the F404GE102 engine with at least 40-50% domestic contribution at TEI. If there is a contract signed for 80 engines, then we hope that there is TEI involvement in there.
There is a very close working bond between TEI and GE. The f404 engine, according to below article by Defence Turkey magazine, will be manufactured in Turkey by TEI under license with a sizeable local contribution.

HÜRJET New Generation AJT’s CDR Phase Completed

The Critical Design Review (CDR) Phase of the HÜRJET, twin-seat, single-engine supersonic new generation Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) and Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) was completed in early March 2021. According to original schedule the CDR Phase should have been completed in August 2020 (To+36...

www.defenceturkey.com

TEI MD Prof Aksit has reiterated many times that at TEI they are at a level to produce more than 50% of the f110 engine including the critical hot parts. He also said that the rest of the parts are those that are produced by other European supply chain factories used by GE, which can be easily sourced. In other words; If you don’t let us have the engine or not let us produce it, be it f404 or f110, we will do it on our own. Albeit taking a bit longer to overcome copyright issues. But nevertheless it will be produced one way or another.
Regarding Cruise Missile and UCAV engines; Both Kale and TEI are producing turbojet engines to that end. Kale has KTJ-3200 which powers SOM and Atmaca missiles. There is another range of more powerful engines coming from Kale, called ARAT soon.
TEI has TJ-90 and TJ-300 that are operational. There are also rumours of a TJ-400 being in the pipeline as well as a patent taken for a turbofan engine designated as TF6000 ( in accordance with TEI’s way of nomenclature, that is an engine with 6000lbf dry thrust).
In the meantime as stop gap measures, certain engines for UCAVs and Cruise Missiles are being outsourced from Motor Sich of Ukraine.

 

[Nilgiri]

I cannot comment on the engine side until GE announced the contract for Hurjet officially but I do hope what you said is true. In order to get maximum TOT there should be a tender going on, as far as I know TAI has prepared 2 design for different engines to power Hurjet, American and European one.

Without an open tender, I dont see there will be huge TOT or local production given by GE. Same thing also happen with Indian Tejas, they dont get local manufacturing for F 404 engine despite ordering around 80 of them, this is why they want to work with Safran from France ( although it can be Safran just make assembling factory in India ).

I still suggest Turkey to work on engine for cruise missile and UCAV to develop capability on jet engine, this way it is more achievable and more production volume to be created particularly for the cruise missile one as it can be some where like 1000 engine being procured.

There is significant inertia between GE and TEI. That is also what goes on between Safran and HAL.

Open tender (w.r.t ToT) from square one is suboptimal compared to harnessing a known/proven inertia (given time, resource and capital spent so far) over a fairly large time period.

"ToT" in jet engines needs decade or longer partnerships among many sets of professional and lot of relevant capital acquisitions in that time period.

Engines have massive lead/lag times contingent on their platform production over time ...i.e the supply chain dynamics between engine maker and client platform production (its not matter of buying and stockpiling engines which would be ridiculously expensive).

None of Big 3 or medium 3 (in West) are going to give core IP/ToT from just open bid given this known and proven feature of the supply chain.

They (given they are essentially kind of a oligopoly) will negotiate to take to more phases with time in an MOU but make sure early phase is simple cash-heavy buying only to show you are serious about maybe strategy/leverage later.

Neither will a country commit to huge "all at once" agreement like that involving the scales needed (esp TR which has F-35 episode recently).

It has to be by way of strategic partnership paradigm or similar.

GE TEI makes the most sense in that regard for Turkey, its not surprising thats the route being picked for it in (long term use) jet engines.

The receiving country also needs to do many things on its own (again over a long enough time) to be able to absorb, process and deploy all this into long term autarkic-strategy.

Cruise missile engines (given single use) and UCAV engines (given thrust + size) have only some impact on what you can use there for large turboprops and turbofans as the design requirements in the innards cascade somewhat exponentially.

Turkey has climbed up the tree regarding those in fair amount commensurate to its capacity already.

How it will do so with the GE TEI collab (for the large heavy stuff) will be something to watch in years to come.

 

[Manomed]

There is significant inertia between GE and TEI. That is also what goes on between Safran and HAL.

Open tender (w.r.t ToT) from square one is suboptimal compared to harnessing a known/proven inertia (given time, resource and capital spent so far) over a fairly large time period.

"ToT" in jet engines needs decade or longer partnerships among many sets of professional and lot of relevant capital acquisitions in that time period.

Engines have massive lead/lag times contingent on their platform production over time ...i.e the supply chain dynamics between engine maker and client platform production (its not matter of buying and stockpiling engines which would be ridiculously expensive).

None of Big 3 or medium 3 (in West) are going to give core IP/ToT from just open bid given this known and proven feature of the supply chain.

They (given they are essentially kind of a oligopoly) will negotiate to take to more phases with time in an MOU but make sure early phase is simple cash-heavy buying only to show you are serious about maybe strategy/leverage later.

Neither will a country commit to huge "all at once" agreement like that involving the scales needed (esp TR which has F-35 episode recently).

It has to be by way of strategic partnership paradigm or similar.

GE TEI makes the most sense in that regard for Turkey, its not surprising thats the route being picked for it in (long term use) jet engines.

The receiving country also needs to do many things on its own (again over a long enough time) to be able to absorb, process and deploy all this into long term autarkic-strategy.

Cruise missile engines (given single use) and UCAV engines (given thrust + size) have only some impact on what you can use there for large turboprops and turbofans as the design requirements in the innards cascade somewhat exponentially.

Turkey has climbed up the tree regarding those in fair amount commensurate to its capacity already.

How it will do so with the GE TEI collab (for the large heavy stuff) will be something to watch in years to come.

Thanks for the support

 

[TheInsider]

Written thousands of times
18 March 2023
-The first flight of Hürjet and Atak-2
-Roll-out and the start of ground tests of TF-X/MMU.

BTW I expect the prototype Hürjet to be shown on 18 March 2022.

 

[MADDOG]

Written thousands of times
18 March 2023
-The first flight of Hürjet and Atak-2
-Roll-out and the start of ground tests of TF-X/MMU.

BTW I expect the prototype Hürjet to be shown on 18 March 2022.

Temel Kotil said that they would be able to show us the first prototype of Hurjet on the upcoming weeks. Any ideas people? It's really hard to receive constant updates from a company like TAI :/

 

[Huelague]

Temel Kotil said that they would be able to show us the first prototype of Hurjet on the upcoming weeks. Any ideas people? It's really hard to receive constant updates from a company like TAI :/

Source?

 

[MADDOG]

Source?

He said it in an interview I think I don't remember which one

 

[Stuka]

I Found an Interview from 2 Weeks ago.

Hakan Kilic and Anil Sahin.

Anil who has been at the TAI Facility in order to film claims that soon one of the Hürjet Prototypes in Production will make its way to the United Kingdom for a Test.
> Precisely the Body will be sent.

The Current Production Line :

two flyable prototype aircraft
one static test Aircraft
one fatigue test aircraft

---

I was looking for a reason and this is what i could find.

I Guess the Engineering Support by Stirling Dynamics could be the reason.

Stirling's Post about Hürjet

Stirling Dynamics Awarded New Loads and Aeroelastics Consultancy Contract - Stirling Dynamics

www.stirling-dynamics.com

"Stirling Dynamics has been awarded a new contract from Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) to provide technical assistance in the areas of loads and aeroelastics for the Hürjet aircraft programme.

Our engineers will be providing support in several formats involving training and guidance, expert review, and off-site work packages. Technical areas of interest include flight and gust loads, buffet, flutter, and validation testing.

We are well placed to carry out this work due to our extensive experience supporting new aircraft design programmes across a range of aircraft through to certification and having an extensive background and proficiency in aircraft loads and aeroelastics.

TAI is expecting to conduct the Hürjet’s maiden test flight in 2022."

18th November 2021

 

[Zafer]

These latest news are inline with the timeline of the Malaysian LCA tender which is supposed to be finalized by end of March to early April. The progress and validation demonstrated will be a testement that our Hürjet will deliver the promise which in turn will give a better hand to it as a credible contender.

 

[Nilgiri]

Malaysian LCA tender which is supposed to be finalized by end of March to early April.

You have mentioned this before, have you got a source for this?

 

[Zafer]

You have mentioned this before, have you got a source for this?

Six companies bidding for RMAF LCA contract

SIX companies are understood to have submitted bids to supply 18 light combat aircraft (LCA) to the Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) in a tender that closed last week, sources say. While the details were not readily available, the contract for one squadron (18 planes) of LCA is said to ...

www.theedgemarkets.com

This link mentions the date loosely.