TR HÜRJET-Advanced Jet Trainer/ Light attack aircraft

[Yasar_TR]

Does that mean that the F110 engines will be 100% domesticated or will Turkey outsource the important tech and just assemble it locally?

Yours is wishful thinking!
This agreement is totally about the F404 engines and its variants. Remember these engines can develop from 10500lbf to 12000lbf dry thrust as shown in Korean, Swedish and Indian versions.
The F404 to be assembled at TEI, will be like T700 Blackhawk engines, and have gradually more and more local parts. But will never be with totally home manufactured parts.
The same should be the case for F110GE129-D (f16v70 ) and F110GE129-E (KAAN) engines. But as of yet no clear cut agreement has been reached.

 

[Merzifonlu]

But, this is just MOU. Am i wrong?

 

[Saithan]

Yours is wishful thinking!
This agreement is totally about the F404 engines and its variants. Remember these engines can develop from 10500lbf to 12000lbf dry thrust as shown in Korean, Swedish and Indian versions.
The F404 to be assembled at TEI, will be like T700 Blackhawk engines, and have gradually more and more local parts. But will never be with totally home manufactured parts.
The same should be the case for F110GE129-D (f16v70 ) and F110GE129-E (KAAN) engines. But as of yet no clear cut agreement has been reached.

I may have asked this in the past.

Do you think it would have been possible and wise to make an agreement back in 2006, that we'd produced/assemble a dozen or even half a dozen engines every year. I mean a lot of time has passed since then. And while we have the knowhow on paper, I'm not so sure the people from that time are still in the industry.

 

[Sanchez]

Update on Hürjet's no show in Farnborough last week from Anıl Şahin:

"HÜRJET's test and development activities continue with great success. There is currently 1 prototype.

Improvements are being made on this prototype, and then these improvements are verified through flight tests.

For Farnborough, a deployment was to take place following 4 different stops. However, engineering teams decided that an improvement was required, which also affected flight safety.

Since this improvement coincided with the Farnborough date, the arrival of the aircraft was canceled. However, I must emphasize that there is no problem with the plane.

It is going to a European country in a few days. It will move to Egypt around September."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1816386180801253426

This flight to "a European country" wasn't announced before. Spanish LIFT tender???

 

[Yasar_TR]

I may have asked this in the past.

Do you think it would have been possible and wise to make an agreement back in 2006, that we'd produced/assemble a dozen or even half a dozen engines every year. I mean a lot of time has passed since then. And while we have the knowhow on paper, I'm not so sure the people from that time are still in the industry.

As per Temel Kotil’in own words, TAI, over the years, has lost a good deal of the expertise and workforce that was trained to produce the f16s. We produced 270 aircraft’s for ourselves , including the last 30 planes that were delivered between 2006 to 2012 to make up for the lost ones. Additionally we produced 46 aircrafts for Egyptian airforce. With spares that would mean 340+ engines would have been assembled/produced at TEI. (First 8 aircrafts came from US fully assembled).

If maintained and serviced properly, f110 engines should last almost as long as the aircrafts themselves.
When a programme like for 270 planes is started, it includes the ~8%+ spare engines as well. You need these spare engines so as to not leave the plane without engines for too long a time, when the original engine is being overhauled.
But a deal could have been struck with GE and LM to keep the production line at TAI/TEI, active and ticking over, to help reduce their overall costs. Besides we could have easily gradually purchased up to 50 aircrafts ourselves since 2012. Now we had to jump over all those hoops to get 40 new planes. Shortsightedness??

 

[uçuyorum]

As per Temel Kotil’in own words, TAI, over the years, has lost a good deal of the expertise and workforce that was trained to produce the f16s. We produced 270 aircraft’s for ourselves , including the last 30 planes that were delivered between 2006 to 2012 to make up for the lost ones. Additionally we produced 46 aircrafts for Egyptian airforce. With spares that would mean 320+ engines would have been assembled/produced at TEI. (First 8 aircrafts came from US fully assembled).

If maintained and serviced properly, f110 engines should last almost as long as the aircrafts themselves.
When a programme like for 270 planes is started, it includes the ~8%+ spare engines as well. You need these spare engines so as to not leave the plane without engines for too long a time, when the original engine is being overhauled.
But a deal could have been struck with GE and LM to keep the production line at TAI/TEI, active and ticking over, to help reduce their overall costs. Besides we could have easily gradually purchased up to 50 aircrafts ourselves since 2012. Now we had to jump over all those hoops to get 40 new planes. Shortsightedness??

Part of it is F35 delays that were supposed to replace older aircraft. We weren't meant to buy more F16s in initial plan

 

[Sanchez]

Part of it is F35 delays that were supposed to replace older aircraft. We weren't meant to buy more F16s in initial plan

Turkey would put the F-16 fleet through the Viper program nonetheless but it is indeed unclear if we would have ordered new airframes had we received the F-35s.

 

[Yasar_TR]

When we finished the first 240 plane f16 programme, we had over 300 fighter jets including F4s and F5s. Since f4 and f5 jets were to be retired soon we would have needed more f16s to keep the numbers of non stealth jets ( the work horses of the airforce) at a decent level.
Of course, without knowing what the future would bring, the right decision would have been to join the EF2000 programme when they offered us to produce the planes in Turkey with all source codes availability.
But past is past. We need to look at the future.

 

[Saithan]

When we finished the first 240 plane f16 programme, we had over 300 fighter jets including F4s and F5s. Since f4 and f5 jets were to be retired soon we would have needed more f16s to keep the numbers of non stealth jets ( the work horses of the airforce) at a decent level.
Of course, without knowing what the future would bring, the right decision would have been to join the EF2000 programme when they offered us to produce the planes in Turkey with all source codes availability.
But past is past. We need to look at the future.

I am fully convinced that if possible we should (even now) get an indefinite production line for F16 up and running for eternity or until a new jet takes over. (meaning until that said new jet lands on Turkish soil).

But I do not believe that is possible due to politics. even producing 4 F16 a year indefinitely would be beneficial for our nation.

 

[Fairon]

Turkey would put the F-16 fleet through the Viper program nonetheless but it is indeed unclear if we would have ordered new airframes had we received the F-35s.

F35's weren't supposed to be this expensive though.(Even if the initial price is lower now, operating costs are still much higher than F16)

We might still have ended up getting new F16s whilst reducing the F35 order.

 

[Yasar_TR]

There are unverified rumours about I Sunnetci’s statement regarding Turkey buying some of the unwanted A400M transport planes. (6 out of 7 with Germany getting the other)

There were news that S Korea was offering Spain their trainer aircraft. Spain came back with a counter offer to give them A400Ms at the 15% price of 27million dollars a piece as a swap deal.

South Korea and Spain seek deal to swap trainer jets for airlifters

The deal may involve about 50 basic and advanced trainer jets built by Korea Aerospace Industries, and four to six Airbus A400M airlifters.

www.defensenews.com

Hurjet was offered to the Spanish.
Hurjet was not brought to Farnborough, because it had to go through urgent upgrades.
Now we are hearing that Hurjet is to go to Spain.

2 x 2 = ???

Any thoughts??

 

[Oublious]

First Hurjet will fly for the first time ifly in Egypt apparently they have a lot interest. No date about delivering but hope the deliver in 2026.

 

[Merzifonlu]

Any thoughts??

If it happens, it would be very good for us. We can both eliminate the shortage of heavy airlifter and provide great advertising for the Hürjet. Just as the Ukraine War served as "a billboard" for the TB-2s.

 

[Sanchez]

There are unverified rumours about I Sunnetci’s statement regarding Turkey buying some of the unwanted A400M transport planes. (6 out of 7 with Germany getting the other)

There were news that S Korea was offering Spain their trainer aircraft. Spain came back with a counter offer to give them A400Ms at the 15% price of 27million dollars a piece as a swap deal.

South Korea and Spain seek deal to swap trainer jets for airlifters

The deal may involve about 50 basic and advanced trainer jets built by Korea Aerospace Industries, and four to six Airbus A400M airlifters.

www.defensenews.com

Hurjet was offered to the Spanish.
Hurjet was not brought to Farnborough, because it had to go through urgent upgrades.
Now we are hearing that Hurjet is to go to Spain.

2 x 2 = ???

Any thoughts??

Confirmation of a possible deal being in the works:
"According to sources who spoke to Defence Turkey, Spain is offering to pay for the procurement of 24 HÜRJETs through the sale of 6 A400Ms to the Turkish Air Force via Airbus (i.e. by way of barter). The Turkish Air Force has been working for some time to increase the number of A400Ms in its inventory, but due to budget constraints, additional purchases could not be made."

HÜRJET İspanya Yolcusu

Türk Havacılık ve Uzay Sanayii tarafından geliştirilen Yeni Nesil jet Eğitim Uçağı HÜRJET, İspanyol Hava ve Uzay Kuvvetleri’nin (SASF) envanterinde bulunan SF-5M eğitim uçaklarını değiştirmek maksadıyla başlattığı proje kapsamında İspanya’ya gidecek.

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[2033]

It would be great for us to sell Hurjet to a NATO country. I hope the deal goes smoothly.

 

[Agha Sher]

It would be great for us to sell Hurjet to a NATO country. I hope the deal goes smoothly.

Yes, even if a barter trade it will open doors in many other countries.

 

[uçuyorum]

Yes, even if a barter trade it will open doors in many other countries.

And I doubt US would deny export license of F404 to spain. Heck, if we established a production centre there and spain imported engines as an intermediary in the worst case scenario, that would work too

 

[Huelague]

urgent upgrades

“Urgent upgrades “…for the requirements of the new customer?

 

[TheInsider]

24 Hurjets for 6 A400M
1 A400M costs roughly 160 million euros, so we are selling a single Hurjet for 40 million euros(43.5 million $). IMHO this is a good trade for us.

 

[Saithan]

If Hurjet lives up to the expectations and good enough to be bought and use by Spain… then I don’t understand why TAF did’t procure some already…