India HAL Tejas Program

Rajendra Chola

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@Rajaraja Chola I would prefer to develop pods capable of controlling CATS Warrior UAVs or the likes effectively and act as the mothership with secondary controls handled by local AWACS & ground stations.

View attachment 39569

Secondly, you don't see USAF using any Growler variants since that role is primarily taken over by AWACS. If ADA/IAF wants a Growler version, it's best reserved for AMCA or TEDBF for IN
That is cos USAF has enough Awacs in the first place. Our Awacs fleet was found wanting in 2019 with the aircraft directing the pilots sitting on ground. Netra took off only later.

We have just 5 AWACS and assuming 2 are in maintenance, we have only 3. So it's not a bad ideq though SU would be good platform to develop on it.
 

Nilgiri

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Folks need to consider just how deficit (and stretched) IAF will be this decade in combat airframes.
Neither will IAF have anywhere close to an adequate number of AWACS either.

Hence there is need to optimise every single airframe (that we have and will have) with diverse swing roles as possible (even with number of baked in compromises for each one)

So in number of scenarios a SPJ + EW heavy/dedicated outfit for Tejas can make sense to have given this...to at least have the option hedged in enough airframes...in the relevant interdiction routes that are wargamed with likeliest adversaries (these are often quite low range involved compared to say what USN needs with the growler)

Only a much larger number of airframes (either direct mass like say USAF or collective pooling like NATO) would allow more stricter delineation + optimisation of fighter/attack aircraft.

For that India has to grow its economy lot better this decade than it has in prior ones...so that at least the 2030 - 2050 scenario looks better.

It is not ideal situation at all, but IAF simply has to make do....and squeeze as much water out of each stone as possible.

But does that mean the EW Tejas is like a growler per se? Mostly no....it will have to be adapted differently for IAF mission planning.


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Never heard Russians or Europeans/French have any platform which is eqivalent to Growler

Actually they (Europeans) have long history going back with the Tornado (in its EW avatar).

The Tornados in turn incorporated lot of lessons from the F-4 and even earlier thunderchief wild weasels and EW of that Vietnam war era before it....given that is when the highest (Soviet) signals + pattern intel flooded in for the Western alliance to really develop + test + execute EW doctrine deeply.

In fact one can argue the Tornado EW was actually a large part of the basis for Growler (along with prowler in USN).
All driven in its case by USN needing to provide EW/SEAD from CBG rather than rely on shore bases + USAF.
Some of the European NATO Tornado role have been taken over by eurofighter, rafale and recently F-35.
Nothing quite as dedicated to it as say Tornado ECR was/is and Growler is today....but still retain optimised outfits for such tasking.

In the previous (cold war + 90s inertia) era there was less need for the French to commit to heavy EW squadrons as this was tasked in NATO command structure to UK, Germany, Italy mostly alongside USAF

This made/makes something of a shield arc (GIUK - North Sea- Central plain-Mediterranean).... you will notice vis a vis USSR (and Russia today) as these were where the major "1st and 2nd phase" SEAD + EW missions were projected to occur in a war and the French were largely tasked to provide other AF roles behind it.

The French with Rafale have now evolved to have own solid EW platform (if needed) though as NATO force hedging evolves.

Russia you are correct has largely taken different approach relative to NATO (though many of their a/c can be outfitted with EW purpose with some compromise involving say flankers and fulcrums) in that they tend to opt for slower+larger "awacs-lite" airframes and have been spotted using A2G (radar silent) "decoys" in tandem.

They are again making do with what they have till more dedicated scale (as they see it and want) for EW arrives via Su-57 and whatever else.
 

Rajendra Chola

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You don't take AWACS into a hot zone...it stays at the safety of your airspace beyond the reach of enemy radars, missile ranges and AD systems while has an extremely powerful and long range EW suite to see long distances. During Balakot, PAF effectively used their AWACS to keep our Sukhois at bay while also simultaneously jamming the Mig-21 which is why the pilot didn't know he entered enemy airspace despite the ground control station trying to warn him

In regards to Tejas, it really depends on the range these jamming pods can project coupled with the AESA. As posted in one of the above pics, the current PESA radar range is limited and will definitely have to wait for Uttam AESA to say the least

Growler per se it's not exactly an full time Awacs. It's main role is to Jam rnemy communication, provide an air bubble to.any incoming missiles, and Snoop on communication. So yes it's range would be less.
Never heard Russians or Europeans/French have any platform which is eqivalent to Growler

Russians and the Chinese have. Russians are based on Su22 or 34. Chinese based on J16 or Su27 variant.
 

crixus

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Growler per se it's not exactly an full time Awacs. It's main role is to Jam rnemy communication, provide an air bubble to.any incoming missiles, and Snoop on communication. So yes it's range would be less.


Russians and the Chinese have. Russians are based on Su22 or 34. Chinese based on J16 or Su27 variant.
What options IAF have ? Do we have any dedicated aircrafts similar to Growlers
 

Nilgiri

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What options IAF have ? Do we have any dedicated aircrafts similar to Growlers

Combat Squadron strength needs to double from current level before we have good core of dedicated a/c like that.

Its make-do approach while we get there.

Russians and Chinese also make-do with their airframes though they have larger squadron numbers.

I really don't put flanker EW variants as growler level of optimisation/dedication.

India needs to get its AWACs (NETRA ecosystem) program on warfooting as first priority anyway. The numbers are still lacking even for the low combat squadron strength being suffered.
 

Nilgiri

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I think IAF pilots are starting to love it. And it also means IAF have framed war strategy using the birds and want to try it out in exercises.

Looks like the exercise could be cancelled because of the UKR-RUS war effects on NATO attention.
 

Gessler

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IRST meant for Tejas Mk-2

FPyiDdjaIAAGFwT.jpg
 

Nilgiri

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Not sure if this is accurate as LRDE is the developer. Does this.mean Astra has won the contract to manufacture radars?

Looks like that tweet got removed/deleted.

Here is another one


I would say its likely that company would indeed be playing a huge role for Uttam going forward....not sure how contract dynamics works out with LRDE. I guess lets wait and see how the actual order contracts shape up later.
 

Rajendra Chola

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Looks like that tweet got removed/deleted.

Here is another one


I would say its likely that company would indeed be playing a huge role for Uttam going forward....not sure how contract dynamics works out with LRDE. I guess lets wait and see how the actual order contracts shape up later.

I am still not 100% by the news. If I am developer I would make any changes to the prototype under testing so as to control and Hw and FW. After it's stabilized, then yes you give it to a company who has had experience manufacturing radars. BEL does them. Data patterns do them.

Or it is just an tested version of the radar where our peeps just use the word "updated" as usual.
 

Rajendra Chola

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Looks like that tweet got removed/deleted.

Here is another one


I would say its likely that company would indeed be playing a huge role for Uttam going forward....not sure how contract dynamics works out with LRDE. I guess lets wait and see how the actual order contracts shape up later.

Fake news.

Unfortunately our so called defence Twitter accounts are copy pastes types. They don't have sources to verify. Just like the Sai baba chain link on WhatsApp.
 

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