Defence Q&A If the EU create its own army, Will that mean that is the end of NATO?

[Cabatli_TR]

After UK left the European Union, France began to play a more active role in the European Union. France, which acts as the decision making body of the European Union, follows an active foreign policy in many countries and carries out military operations with its army. France also makes serious attempts to establish a "EU Army" to support these policies. Germany is the silent side about this initiative.

You may remember that Macron said in a statement that NATO is a "brain dead" organization. The strong brothers of NATO UK and US seem to be disturbed by these attempts of France and it can be seen that the events that took place left traces in the perception of France within NATO. For example, France which tried to end the Turkish support in Libya with a military attitude, could not prevent Turkey and brought the events took place in the Eastern Mediterranean to NATO's agenda, but could not get a result. Finally, the 90 billion dollar submarine deal between Australia and France was canceled with the initiatives of the UK and US.

France's "EU Army" request and the recent developments seem to have caused discomfort in NATO. If France can establish a common European army, this will be a great success for French foreign policy in many ways, but I think it will have some consequences for NATO as well. I want our members to discuss this topic in this Q&A thread.

Thanks.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439298028930801665

 

[mulj]

First, Germany is skeptical about EU-Army. And an EU-Army without Germany is not possible. Second, Germans don’t like Macron and his ‘imperialism’ ambitions and wannabe leadership. Remember Merkel speed about Macron. Third, German don’t want creep under France Nuclear Umbrella. And of course, this umbrella and Army will heavily paid by German taxpayers.

An EU-Army would mean a break with USA a bit far. For US it means less influence in EU. This gap would/could be filled by Russia or China. Which not everyone wants. Many Europeans are still to much afraid of Russia. Rightly. Most Europeans are not willing to risk his secure because of Macrons ambitions. And without an agreement with Russia it’s hard to build up an EU-army.

Next point, where is our standing in a possible EU-Army. They can build one without us, no doubt, but less powerful and and much less capabilities. At best, European can protect them self.

I wanted to write something similiar. Only in paralel universe we will see some mutant army led by germany france duo.
Even if with some miracle decison EU decide to go in that direction it is doomed from start due legislation and money issues, i think even EU corps project failed miserably.

 

[Huelague]

I wanted to write something similiar. Only in paralel universe we will see some mutant army led by germany france duo.
Even if with some miracle decison EU decide to go in that direction it is doomed from start due legislation and money issues, i think even EU corps project failed miserably.

One day, they could have. If they have good and peaceful relations with Russia and USA is agreed on this plan. Right now, EU can not defence themselves without US. Not to mention possible operations abroad of EU. An EU Army will force a counter balance by others also.

 

[Huelague]

France will lead EU. It’s not possible as USA is still in the house. France wants to counter Turkey likewise. Remember their cheap try, by calling NATO “brain dead” regarding of Turkey. With an EU-Army lead by France its more possible.

Macron wants to break apart NATO.

 

[mulj]

One day, they could have. If they have good and peaceful relations with Russia and USA is agreed on this plan. Right now, EU can not defence themselves without US. Not to mention possible operations abroad of EU. An EU Army will force a counter balance by others also.

One day it might be but thaat would be at least couple of decades from now under the condition the Germany go on dry treatment of taking of from USA dopamine provided.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Another important question no one has yet mentioned is:
Who will this army protect Europe from?
Russia , Turkey or ???
It can’t be Turkey because apart from Greece and Southern Cyprus no one in Europe sees Turkey as an enemy. Well France sees Turkey as an adversary as Turkey is infringing on it’s supposed area of influence. Turkey is in the same block as the rest of most of the Europeans. She has signed a treaty to defend a member state if attacked.
So it is Russia that everyone is worried about. Who in Europe and NATO has the manpower to stand against Russia? Apart from Turkey, I can’t really see any one standing against Russia.
German army is big and has access to good equipment. But are the Germans ready to defend their country? Or better to ask are they ready to defend their neighbours in the East?
Poland is preparing better than Germany against Russia. But can they stop Russian onslaught? If Russia decides to annex the 3 Baltic States again, who are prepared and have the means to defend them?
Without Turkey NATO’s Eastern and Mediterranean plans are dead! Russia knows this and is trying hard to break Turkey from NATO and the West.

 

[Glass🚬]

I wanted to write something similiar. Only in paralel universe we will see some mutant army led by germany france duo.
Even if with some miracle decison EU decide to go in that direction it is doomed from start due legislation and money issues, i think even EU corps project failed miserably.

They will form that army because there is no other option, the Russians wont stand idle if they have the opportunity to annex former territories so the euros need a back up plan, that back up plan will fail because as soon as the Russians make a move that eu army will crumble.

 

[mulj]

They will form that army because there is no other option, the Russians wont stand idle if they have the opportunity to annex former territories so the euros need a back up plan, that back up plan will fail because as soon as the Russians make a move that eu army will crumble.

Doubt that, strategic partnership between Germany and Russia will prevent such scenario of creating Napoleon Great Army vol.2, some simbolic birocracy imstitution like joimn command or simililar could be created but without meaningfull military impact on global balances, only if EU has global political ambitons then whole project would have some sense, we know that is not the case and hardly it will ever be.

 

[Nutuk]

EU has a population of 446million, if they can't muster up the manpower for an EU army.

They can easily put an army of 1mln, it is all a matter of will and organizing

 

[Bosanski Vojnik]

This is a good move by France and the Europeans (EU Countries) in general. For them of course. Because unfortunately I can see this alliance being anti-Turkey in nature.

President Macron will be the main political leader in Europe when Merkel leaves office and both him and France will take a leading role in defining European common security and military defence for the next decade. The United States is increasingly showing itself to be an unreliable partner and it's influence around the world is waning.

 

[GoatsMilk]

It doesn't matter one bit if Turkiye accept Israel even recognize Tel Aviv as its capital.We did exactly that in the past Turkiye was Israel's closest muslim majority ally till 2008 Mavi Marmara event but that did not stop U.S. becoming main sponsor of PKK for purpose driving Turkiye into civil war starting from early 90s till today.Israel from day one had no intention of peacefully coexististing with its muslim majority neighbours.

Even the most secular minded and western minded of middle eastern people generally see Isreal as regional trouble maker. The whole idea of placing the mixed European/Asiatic khazer origin jews in the heart of the brown middle east is pure european style madness. It would be like creating a palastinian state in the middle of central europe at the expense of the czechs, austrians, germans and polish.

 

[GoatsMilk]

This is a good move by France and the Europeans (EU Countries) in general. For them of course. Because unfortunately I can see this alliance being anti-Turkey in nature.

President Macron will be the main political leader in Europe when Merkel leaves office and both him and France will take a leading role in defining European common security and military defence for the next decade. The United States is increasingly showing itself to be an unreliable partner and it's influence around the world is waning.

Trump said it best, "everything macron touches turns to shit"

 

[Huelague]

This is a good move by France and the Europeans (EU Countries) in general. For them of course. Because unfortunately I can see this alliance being anti-Turkey in nature.

President Macron will be the main political leader in Europe when Merkel leaves office and both him and France will take a leading role in defining European common security and military defence for the next decade. The United States is increasingly showing itself to be an unreliable partner and it's influence around the world is waning.

Germans doesn't want lead by Macron or any other frogs. They know very well who must pay for the new created army. And of course they don't want to die for France ambition imperialism.

 

[Huelague]

Trump said it best, "everything macron touches turns to shit"

Or what Merkel said, " I am sick of repair and clean up, what Macron have to crushed."

 

[Huelague]

This is a good move by France and the Europeans (EU Countries) in general. For them of course. Because unfortunately I can see this alliance being anti-Turkey in nature.

President Macron will be the main political leader in Europe when Merkel leaves office and both him and France will take a leading role in defining European common security and military defence for the next decade. The United States is increasingly showing itself to be an unreliable partner and it's influence around the world is waning.

No.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439603416981020682

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439688577806487559

 

[Huelague]

In German

Eine historische Demütigung für Emmanuel Macron

Die USA, Großbritannien und Australien haben dem französischen Staatspräsidenten seine Grenzen aufgezeigt.

www.berliner-zeitung.de

 

[Pantelis]

This is a good move by France and the Europeans (EU Countries) in general. For them of course. Because unfortunately I can see this alliance being anti-Turkey in nature.

President Macron will be the main political leader in Europe when Merkel leaves office and both him and France will take a leading role in defining European common security and military defence for the next decade. The United States is increasingly showing itself to be an unreliable partner and it's influence around the world is waning.

i agree with you

 

[Ardabas34]

After Australia, Switzerland Cancels Military Deal With France

After Australia, Switzerland Cancels Military Deal With France

France has faced another setback with Switzerland’s decision to buy the F-35 fleet from the US instead of France’s Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft.

www.moroccoworldnews.com

This was shared in reddit. Though I didnt see a second source. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Lool]

After Australia, Switzerland Cancels Military Deal With France

After Australia, Switzerland Cancels Military Deal With France

France has faced another setback with Switzerland’s decision to buy the F-35 fleet from the US instead of France’s Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft.

www.moroccoworldnews.com

This was shared in reddit. Though I didnt see a second source. Can anyone confirm this?

It is probably true
Even the Middle East Eye reported this!
Apparently, little Macron was quite pissed at Switzerland for chosing the F35 over Rafales fighter jets

 

[Lool]

This is a good move by France and the Europeans (EU Countries) in general. For them of course. Because unfortunately I can see this alliance being anti-Turkey in nature.

President Macron will be the main political leader in Europe when Merkel leaves office and both him and France will take a leading role in defining European common security and military defence for the next decade. The United States is increasingly showing itself to be an unreliable partner and it's influence around the world is waning.

EU interests?
Man you really believe a FQING BANKER like Macron will act on the benefit of the EU?
All what I know, is that Macron will suck the EU dry, will not act on the behalf of The EU but this rotten EU army will be a wall protecting France's interests. Just look at where France is geographically for God's sake. In case of an invasion by either Turkey or Russia, the ones who will get killed are the Balkan states, germany, italy and greece.
France will just be watching from the sidelines while tossing money at you to continue fighting
In other words, with the EU army forming, you guys will be France's and Macron's bitches no more (no offense meant but couldnt find better phrasing tbh)