Defence Q&A If the EU create its own army, Will that mean that is the end of NATO?

[Cabatli_TR]

After UK left the European Union, France began to play a more active role in the European Union. France, which acts as the decision making body of the European Union, follows an active foreign policy in many countries and carries out military operations with its army. France also makes serious attempts to establish a "EU Army" to support these policies. Germany is the silent side about this initiative.

You may remember that Macron said in a statement that NATO is a "brain dead" organization. The strong brothers of NATO UK and US seem to be disturbed by these attempts of France and it can be seen that the events that took place left traces in the perception of France within NATO. For example, France which tried to end the Turkish support in Libya with a military attitude, could not prevent Turkey and brought the events took place in the Eastern Mediterranean to NATO's agenda, but could not get a result. Finally, the 90 billion dollar submarine deal between Australia and France was canceled with the initiatives of the UK and US.

France's "EU Army" request and the recent developments seem to have caused discomfort in NATO. If France can establish a common European army, this will be a great success for French foreign policy in many ways, but I think it will have some consequences for NATO as well. I want our members to discuss this topic in this Q&A thread.

Thanks.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439298028930801665

 

[Ardabas34]

It is probably true
Even the Middle East Eye reported this!
Apparently, little Macron was quite pissed at Switzerland for chosing the F35 over Rafales fighter jets

Can you share Middle East Eye link? I couldnt find it.

Edit: Also Daily Sabah link:

France cancels meeting with Swiss president over jet order

A meeting between the Swiss president and his French counterpart, which had been in planning for a while, has been canceled due to French anger about...

www.dailysabah.com

I am just looking for a western source that confirms this.

 

[Glass🚬]

Can you share Middle East Eye link? I couldnt find it.

Edit: Also Daily Sabah link:

France cancels meeting with Swiss president over jet order

A meeting between the Swiss president and his French counterpart, which had been in planning for a while, has been canceled due to French anger about...

www.dailysabah.com

I am just looking for a western source that confirms this.

"officially" it was rescheduled but i think thats just a diplomatic way of saying that they canceled it.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439614658785202181

 

[Ryder]

Anglo Saxon club put the middle finger to France.

Crazy how race and ethnicity or even tribalism can play a role in geopolitics no matter how much people deny it.

 

[Bogeyman]

EU says no plans for now to establish 'European army'​

The EU Commission said on Monday that the bloc has no plans to establish a "European army" but is rather focusing on strengthening the military capabilities of its individual members.

Asked about talk of a "European army," commission spokesperson Nabila Massrali said no such proposal is on the table.

"Our current work is more focused on supporting member states’ capacity to (respond to) developments, strengthening our industry," she told reporters.

On the bloc's Strategic Compass defense strategy, Massrali said work on how the EU takes responsibility for their own security will be mentioned in the strategy, which is expected to be released in draft form by year’s-end.

The idea of establishing a European army gained interest anew after chaotic European withdrawals from Afghanistan and the Indo-Pacific security pact announced last week between the US, UK, and Australia (AUKUS), with France and the EU left out of the loop.

EU says no plans for now to establish 'European army'

Bloc more focused on members' capacity to respond to developments, strengthening industry, says EU Commission spokesperson - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

 

[Glass🚬]

EU says no plans for now to establish 'European army'​

The EU Commission said on Monday that the bloc has no plans to establish a "European army" but is rather focusing on strengthening the military capabilities of its individual members.

Asked about talk of a "European army," commission spokesperson Nabila Massrali said no such proposal is on the table.

"Our current work is more focused on supporting member states’ capacity to (respond to) developments, strengthening our industry," she told reporters.

On the bloc's Strategic Compass defense strategy, Massrali said work on how the EU takes responsibility for their own security will be mentioned in the strategy, which is expected to be released in draft form by year’s-end.

The idea of establishing a European army gained interest anew after chaotic European withdrawals from Afghanistan and the Indo-Pacific security pact announced last week between the US, UK, and Australia (AUKUS), with France and the EU left out of the loop.

EU says no plans for now to establish 'European army'

Bloc more focused on members' capacity to respond to developments, strengthening industry, says EU Commission spokesperson - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

I believe there was lots of pressure from eastern euros for that statement lol

 

[what]

The Eastern European countries will not rely on Germany and France to defend them against Russian aggression and thats basically the end of the story.

 

[Nilgiri]

The Eastern European countries will not rely on Germany and France to defend them against Russian aggression and thats basically the end of the story.

Brutally to the point.

"what" cuts through the BS and just lets you know what's what

 

[Bogeyman]

EU says unilateral U.S. moves put strategic autonomy on leaders' agenda​

EU leaders will discuss ways to strengthen the bloc's defence after the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan and the dispute with the U.S. over a scrapped submarine deal, European Commission deputy head Maros Sefcovic said on Tuesday.

"I think that after Kabul, after (the security agreement between the United States, Australia and Britain) AUKUS, this was, I would say the natural conclusion, that we need to focus more on the strategic autonomy," Sefcovic told reporters after a meeting of the EU's European affairs ministers in Brussels.

"These are such crucial discussions that they clearly warrant the discussion at the top political leadership, of the heads of state and government," he added, without specifying which EU summit would discuss the issue.

EU leaders are meeting on Oct 5/6 to talk about the relationship with China, the Taliban's takeover in Kabul and the Western Balkans and will meet again on Oct 21/22.


The chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan prompted fresh calls for the creation of a European rapid reaction force to reduce the bloc's dependence on the U.S. military. read more

The discussion gathered pace after Australia last week scrapped a $40 billion submarine contract with France in favour of a deal with the U.S. and Britain, seen as further proof of Washington's focus shifting towards China. read more

EU efforts to establish a rapid reaction force have been paralysed for more than a decade despite the creation in 2007 of a system of battlegroups of 1,500 troops that have never been used due to disputes over funding and a reluctance to deploy.

EU says unilateral U.S. moves put strategic autonomy on leaders' agenda

EU leaders will discuss ways to strengthen the bloc's defence after the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan and the dispute with the U.S. over a scrapped submarine deal, European Commission deputy head Maros Sefcovic said on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

 

[Bogeyman]

Berlin sides with Paris in fallout over Australian submarine deal​

Germany expressed strong support for France on Tuesday after Australia scrapped a multi-million dollar submarine deal leading to renewed tensions between the EU and US.

Speaking to reporters in Brussels ahead of a meeting of EU ministers of general affairs, Germany's Europe Minister Michael Roth said: "Of course, I have great understanding for our French partners and we are also in close contact (with them). It is once again a wake-up call for all of us in the European Union to ask ourselves how we can strengthen our sovereignty."

He added: "It has been shown time and again that the unified appearance of the European Union is of outstanding importance. We cannot rely exclusively on others; we have to cooperate and we have to overcome our differing views, which of course sometimes also exist on these issues in the European Union, and speak with one voice."

Roth acknowledged this was "a very difficult situation for France," saying lost trust had to be restored.

EU leaders have rallied behind Paris in its wrath over the deal with Australia that was discarded when Canberra signed up to AUKUS, a trilateral Asia Pacific security pact, to assemble nuclear submarines.

EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell “expressed clear solidarity with France,” saying “this announcement ran counter to calls for greater cooperation with the European Union in the Indo-Pacific,” he said.

Borrell's remarks were underscored by EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen who said France was treated in an "unacceptable" way.

French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian has branded the agreement a "stab in the back," and recalled the French ambassadors to Canberra and Washington for consultations.

Berlin sides with Paris in fallout over Australian submarine deal

Important for EU to have unified stance, speak with one voice, says German minister - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

 

[Glass🚬]

The Eastern European countries will not rely on Germany and France to defend them against Russian aggression and thats basically the end of the story.

And on who will they rely instead?

 

[CAN_TR]

EU Army would be basically turn into a "Game of Thrones", who will become the Alpha? Not to mention the different national interest of each country (Spain, France, Germany and Italy).

Just look at the EU arms programms (France-Germany) and you will see how it would look like.

 

[Huelague]

EU, after Trump, everything will be fine again, between us.

 

[Huelague]

And on who will they rely instead?

US.

 

[Turko]

Having been dumbed by Australia, Macron is having fits of hysteria.

France is not such a great country to found a new European army. Just hysterical .

 

[Bosanski Vojnik]

EU interests?
Man you really believe a FQING BANKER like Macron will act on the benefit of the EU?
All what I know, is that Macron will suck the EU dry, will not act on the behalf of The EU but this rotten EU army will be a wall protecting France's interests. Just look at where France is geographically for God's sake. In case of an invasion by either Turkey or Russia, the ones who will get killed are the Balkan states, germany, italy and greece.
France will just be watching from the sidelines while tossing money at you to continue fighting
In other words, with the EU army forming, you guys will be France's and Macron's bitches no more (no offense meant but couldnt find better phrasing tbh)

Your post comes from a completely emotional and narrow minded view point of European Realpolitik and French Military power.

 

[Lool]

Your post comes from a completely emotional and narrow minded view point of European Realpolitik and French Military power.

Sure..........
You speak as if the French, during at least the past 10 years, did anything useful for the EU, lool

Throughout history, France has been a traitorous and a racist state; this is a fact!
I would like to also say that in the past, France used to regard NATO as brain dead as well and eventually left NATO just to come begging on its knees for the US and the UK to add it back
Have you seen the latest spat between France and the US about the submarine deal? Have you seen how it got resolved? The US and France have agreed that there should have been more transparency and that is all!
Did the US cancel the Submarine deal? NO
Did the US at least return some of the profits of the submarines to France? NO
Any compensatory deal from the US to France as compensation? NO
What did the French get from the recent statements? A piece of paper written on it....."Iam sorry"...... but the money and the deal will still go to the US, lool
Did the French ever help the Armenian Christians? NO
What more proof do you need?
Truly the french are one of the US bitches and if the EU army is established, then for sure you guys will be France's bitches (no offense meant but really couldnt find any better word)


In fact, You just perfectly explained the true state of those who believe that the EU army is a good deal
For those who believe that the EU army is actually good, all what i can say to them is that your beliefs comes from a completely emotional and narrow-minded view point of European Realpolitik and French military power

As I said, you explained yourself better than anyone in this forum tbh, lool!

 

[Ryder]

Hopefully a Turkic army gets established.

Turkey, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgzstan and Uzbekistan.

 

[BaburKhan]

If somethink like an EU Army will established, it's a big Threat for turkish interest in Caucasus, eastern mediterran and north Africa. I think Turkey can not match the Threat on a conventional Level. Turkey need a strategy for the Moment that all front Lines will Collapse, like that what NATO planned if they got overunned by Warsaw Pact.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1459651141164273667

 

[Huelague]

If somethink like an EU Army will established, it's a big Threat for turkish interest in Caucasus, eastern mediterran and north Africa. I think Turkey can not match the Threat on a conventional Level. Turkey need a strategy for the Moment that all front Lines will Collapse, like that what NATO planned if they got overunned by Warsaw Pact.

No.