If war broke out between Morocco and Algeria.

[Chakib larbi]

Algeria uses the chinese Type 704A/BL904 and russian 1L260-E counter-battery radars To detect and destroy enemy artillery

..Algerian special operations forces It can also conduct reconnaissance operations in the depth of the enemy To spot enemy artillery and direct artillery fire via their Rheinmetall TacNet battle management system of the gladius system ..

It also uses the Russian Malachit system to direct artillery fire using laser-guided munitions

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Azerbaijan was in very close proximity to Armenia range wise, so there was little benefit to iskandar compared to say regular rocket artillery. It ended up being more nominal deterrence value at most....and Azerbaijan called it out (especially given the specific tactics Azerbaijan developed in last couple decades to counter this kind of thing in more confined battlespace size).

Thats all part of the why/how Azerbaijan invested heavily into TB2 and harpy to efficiently take out assets Armenia had (even back line assets essentially were always front line)....knowing the ranges and asset concentration involved in just few specific areas.....and such UAVs are also easily spread around operation wise and not reliant on airbase infra etc that the opponent might take out with its own strike assets.

Morocco and Algeria the distances and context are very different....enough for their to be marked difference in more realised favourable force value of an iskandar....especially if you have only a handful of airbases and harbours to strike and opponent has not hedged enough of a counter.

Algeria has some 48 launchers... 4 regiments of 12 each apparently. It is clear they have got this for infra targetting at distance to buy enough scope for a push in border zones.

Morocco has not evolved an open answer to these that I can see. There are grey/closed/secret options available but these get very specific in nature and very dependent on how the conflict even starts.

Further invasion of morocco past that I agree with you overal.....i.e I doubt they can sustain, the distances and fiscal need become large and harder to overcome. Morocco will have lot more options at its disposal for countering that (even in worst case scenario) as it will be defenders advantage the further the opponent pushes.

Make sense. Morocco is actually not good at having a open answer to the threaths. They often operate in secret, but i can say one thing. Morocco operate both the tb-2, and also have harop. They must be having some type of plan. The good news for morocco is that most of its critical millitart infrastrucure is based in the central west morocco, and the iskender will not reach it unless they invade a big portion of easter morocco. That would be very likely as the mountains in north morocco would give the moroccans a BIG advantage because of the mountain terrain. Algeria would suffer 1-7 man losses. It would be more simple to invade from south sahara.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Algeria uses the chinese Type 704A/BL904 and russian 1L260-E counter-battery radars To detect and destroy enemy artillery

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..Algerian special operations forces It can also conduct reconnaissance operations in the depth of the enemy To spot enemy artillery and direct artillery fire via their Rheinmetall TacNet battle management system of the gladius system ..
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It also uses the Russian Malachit system to direct artillery fire using laser-guided munitions

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Nice information bro. Thanks you providing more in depth about the land forces of algeria. Im still waiting for the first post i made to you.

 

[Chakib larbi]

I have looked globally both countries when it comes to landforces i think both countries have state of the art weapons like SAM. Artillery and rest of the equipment is equal, but when it comes to Command and Control or Radar systems Morocco do it better. Still do not believe Turkey have sold Koral to Morocco, if that is correct then the edge will shift to Marocco. Both countries do not have strategic EW/ED systems, nobody will give that for sure.

With airforces Morrocan do it better, Algerians do not have AWACS. You can have the best fighter but if you don't have Eye in the Sky then it does not mean much against a enemy with Eye. Both have UAV but how many do have is not clear, air to air weapons and all other stuff is equal. Both do not have cruise missiles, or ther is not information about it.

Navy is a bit strange, Morroco have good ships but do not have submarine so the Algerian navy is stronger.

Outcome looks like in favor of Morrocco, i hope a war never break out between two countries.

I will give answer for all of your misleading information about the algerian army tomorrow we will talk about the rocket artillery.. then other thing after it ....but now i'll give the word to my morrocan friend so he can talks us about their modern artillery

 

[Chakib larbi]

Nice information bro. Thanks you providing more in depth about the land forces of algeria. Im still waiting for the first post i made to you.

we are going step by step

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

we are going step by step

Its not step by step. We talked about one issue, im talking about the first post in the thread. You said you will answer me tommorow, but you keep answering other posts. Anyway fair enough, do as you please.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

I will give answer for all of your misleading information about the algerian army tomorrow we will talk about the rocket artillery.. then other thing after it ....but now i'll give the word to my morrocan friend so he can talks us about their modern artillery

I mentioned the artillery pieces, and the main weapons of the armed forces of morocco earlier in the thread.

 

[Chakib larbi]

First strike is indeed advantage but did you follow the armenia-azeri war? Did you witness how armenia used iskender against azerbaijan? Tell me what happend? If first strike really have such a BIG impact then i will say that the tb2 will have a even bigger impact. Its really important to look at the geopraphics of morocco. It will be extremely hard for algeria to invade.

PLzzz Bro what could bayraktar do with its 250 km range against a country like algeria ...with its potent air defence forces

 

[Chakib larbi]

I mentioned the artillery pieces, and the main weapons of the armed forces of morocco earlier in the thread.

could you provide Details and photos like I did

 

[Chakib larbi]

Its not step by step. We talked about one issue, im talking about the first post in the thread. You said you will answer me tommorow, but you keep answering other posts. Anyway fair enough, do as you please.

pllz remind me what post do u mean

 

[Chakib larbi]

Make sense. Morocco is actually not good at having a open answer to the threaths. They often operate in secret, but i can say one thing. Morocco operate both the tb-2, and also have harop. They must be having some type of plan. The good news for morocco is that most of its critical millitart infrastrucure is based in the central west morocco, and the iskender will not reach it unless they invade a big portion of easter morocco. That would be very likely as the mountains in north morocco would give the moroccans a BIG advantage because of the mountain terrain. Algeria would suffer 1-7 man losses. It would be more simple to invade from south sahara.

military bases and Moroccan infrastructure on the other side of the atlas mountain will be flanked by algerian navy

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

PLzzz Bro what could bayraktar do with its 250 km range against a country like algeria ...with its potent air defence forces

i will repost the posts tommorow. Tb2 with satcon have more then 250 km range, and the tb2 have mobile vehicle so that makes the system even more powerfull. Have you not seen what the tb2 did you to the armenian air defence systems, and the russians? Most of the algerian air defence systems are russian just like russia and armenia.

 

[Chakib larbi]

@Knowledgeseeker ,your allies are?

nothing to do with allies in this conflict ....Basically the western powers the last thing they want is interfering in a conflict at the gates of Europe may threatening them with waves of human migration/terrorism And cut off their energy supplies coming from Algeria...Besides, the West's relationship with Algeria is very good, and we are one of the main economic partners of the European Union if africa And we have huge European and American investments in the field of energy and in the future in the field of industry and agriculture and It is also possible even in tourism and culture specialy with italy and germany ...The West will not stand against Algeria because it will not allow China to seize Algeria's economic/and natural resource potential for itself....But when the West intervened in the conflict in favor of Morocco Make sure that the conflict will turn into a global one, and you will see Russian and Chinese forces in the western Mediterranean and This is the last thing that Western countries want

 

[Fachfouch]

their economies would be devastated EU will not have it since a LOT of refugees will poor to them and also Tunisia would be damaged economically by the war... such war will be a self destruction not just for both countries but the region decades of economic progress will be lost.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

nothing to do with allies in this conflict ....Basically the western powers the last thing they want is interfering in a conflict at the gates of Europe may threatening them with waves of human migration/terrorism And cut off their energy supplies coming from Algeria...Besides, the West's relationship with Algeria is very good, and we are one of the main economic partners of the European Union if africa And we have huge European and American investments in the field of energy and in the future in the field of industry and agriculture and It is also possible even in tourism and culture specialy with italy and germany ...The West will not stand against Algeria because it will not allow China to seize Algeria's economic/and natural resource potential for itself....But when the West intervened in the conflict in favor of Morocco Make sure that the conflict will turn into a global one, and you will see Russian and Chinese forces in the western Mediterranean and This is the last thing that Western countries want

I agree that the western power would be worried of a migration crisis if a war would have taken place but energy supplies? Algeria provide cheap gass to italy, while having a diplomatic crisis with the EU right now as we speaking! How can you claim
That algerians have excellent relations when the EU when they recently broke the «friendship treaty» with spain, but later reserved their decision? The EU warned it was prepared to take action to defend the interests of its members, and they are also well known to the algerian support of russia. Thats why the Nigerian-moroccan pipeline are being discussed now with the EU as a solution to the gas crisis made by russia. The reason of the dispute with spain was after spain decided to recognize moroccan sovereignty over sahara, and this only took place after Spain changed to american gas while they before that got supplied 40% of its need from algeria. Algeria lost its reliability because it used its gas as a political card against spain..take that into consideration

 

[Chakib larbi]

i will repost the posts tommorow. Tb2 with satcon have more then 250 km range, and the tb2 have mobile vehicle so that makes the system even more powerfull. Have you not seen what the tb2 did you to the armenian air defence systems, and the russians? Most of the algerian air defence systems are russian just like russia and armenia.

Armenia and Azerbaijan are small countries with a well-known geographic distribution of troops and bases...for algeria is not the same at all ..The second thing Algeria relies on Russian and Chinese air defense systems thats true ..But it also relies on a network of Russian, Chinese and American surveillance/early warning radars ..And most important of all Algeria relies on C5I/C4ISR/C3I command and control systems for its air defense network from both Russia and America To increase the immunity and efficiency of its air defense systems ...This is what Armenia does not have as It also lacked our capabilities in strategic electronic warfare And to the air capabilities that Algeria possesses Even if some consider that the Moroccan F-16 can defeat the Algerian Air Force and its air defense

Algeria is one of the few Arab and African countries which use both American systems C4ISR and C5I from Raytheon Company among its military forces.

https://www.raytheon.com/sites/default/files/capabilities/rtnwcm/groups/gallery/documents/content/rtn_234817.pdf

And Here is the first meeting organized at the Higher War School to introduce the C4ISR system after it became operational within algerian forces in 2011 .. The meeting was titled C4ISR within the Algerian National Armed Forces

And here, the inauguration of the training center for the C4isr command and control system in 2015 at the Higher War School

Integrated Air Defense Systems (IADS) Commande centre scattered across the country

 

[Chakib larbi]

I agree that the western power would be worried of a migration crisis if a war would have taken place but energy supplies? Algeria provide cheap gass to italy, while having a diplomatic crisis with the EU right now as we speaking! How can you claim
That algerians have excellent relations when the EU when they recently broke the «friendship treaty» with spain, but later reserved their decision? The EU warned it was prepared to take action to defend the interests of its members, and they are also well known to the algerian support of russia. Thats why the Nigerian-moroccan pipeline are being discussed now with the EU as a solution to the gas crisis made by russia. The reason of the dispute with spain was after spain decided to recognize moroccan sovereignty over sahara, and this only took place after Spain changed to american gas while they before that got supplied 40% of its need from algeria. Algeria lost its reliability because it used its gas as a political card against spain..take that into consideration

Do you really believe what you say? Or are you only copy/past from the Moroccan press? I will definitely come back tomorrow to answer this nonsense

 

[Gary]

As good as F-16s are and lot of other gear Morocco has.......

...... how does morocco make them survivable past an iskander strike on the (few + known) airbases (and naval bases for ships) that hold them?

Iskander TBM are limited by MTCR regulations for export version, to really hit anything inside Morocco, Iskander battery needs to come close, the footprint is large, with multiple TELs , command vehicle etc .

Convoys of Iskander battery could be detected easily, hence achieving surprise will be hard.

If Morocco smell anything fishy in regards to Iskander posing to diver a first strike, they could disperse their jets all over the country out of harms way. Ukraine did the same in the opening days of the war.

Morocco need to worry more about the Kalibr equipped pr.663 submarines. How good is Moroccan navy ASW ?

The opening moves of the wargaming overall favour Algeria heavily IMO....till Morocco gains credible capability and counters to this tier.

Not if they're unable to achieve surprise.

There's very few occasions where surprise elements are met, Barbarossa (1941), Pearl (1941), six day war (1967).

It would be hard to replicate those now with the commercialization of social media and satellite based imagery.

IMO, for forseeable current conflict window......Algeria's objectives will likely be (after the first strike advantage) to grab land in disputed/contested border zones and try punish morocco's military and infrastructure as much as possible. I.e tactical and punitive quick war.

Both side must have their own plan, I'm sure of that, Morocco planned for A while Algeria planned for B. But to quote Von Clausewitz, there's really no plan that survive first contact.

It will be the the armies with the best flexibility of command that will win.

I don't mean to generalize, but developing countries armies, especially in the MENA despite their abundance of weapon, has not prove their mettle in combat. Mostly because most of them are really designed for social control (and vast business interest) and their rigid and outdated command system prevent correct decision by field commanders.

This is why we keep seeing armies in MENA surrendering or outperformed by relatively small but efficient and flexible armies, ranging from non state actors like Isis, Houthis, to conventional armies like Israel.

Initiative and independent thinking are not encouraged, low field commanders would have to ask to the higher ups on what and what not to do.

Even if one side manage to occupy some lands it's questionable if they could move forward since.

I do not see either side having the long drawn out logistics, force sizes and funding for a longer strategic war.

Neither do I.

 

[Nurhak40]

If tb2 used , Algerian airdefence would not last a month. If you check every war where tb2 was used then you see its anti anti air defence weapon

 

[500]

NATO standard is a way to rate the forces compared to NATO forces,except the new members from the old soviet states.



@500 can you make comparison between the Armed Forces of Algeria and Morocco?

Both Morocco and Algeria are huge ~40 mln countries with very weak air forces. Their ground forces are more or less equal.