If war broke out between Morocco and Algeria.

Knowledgeseeker

Experienced member
Moderator
Arab Moderator
Morocco Moderator
Messages
1,815
Reactions
20 4,631
Nation of residence
Norway
Nation of origin
Moroco
Was it really this number? 3000?

Reports in late april (about 2 months later) state about 1300 launches or so till that point....so definitely in initial phase it was not this number then.

The issue with Ukraine is its very different context. It has a very large array of nodes (for its airforce and especially its army) and they are quite spread out evenly across the country....and they have varying level of air defenses and so on (not to mention the western assistance that came promptly before and during to maximise and augment critical things).

Morocco has much fewer and they are concentrated in a few particular areas.

The geography is one where there are large mostly uninhabited areas prompting this kind of thing compared to the large spread + settled river plains of ukraine.

Foreign power interest is also not as large as Ukraine/Russia one given I would think most wargaming done by interested parties give limited results in the border regions at best (compared to say mass warfare potential, capitulation, geopolitical strategy etc).

I think MTCR range control is the biggest impediment to Algerian iskandar threat value....because other than that its much more expensive for Morocco to hedge/spread things given the geography, logistics and foreign power interest/involvement compared to say Ukraine.
Morocco is aiming for a layered air defence structure in the kingdom. Morocco has way better Air defence systems then Ukraina with their Tor/ S300. Ukraina is actually using their stingers, and s300 quite effectivly but cant compare it with the systems morocco are operating. Why would it be more expensive for morocco to spread?
 

Nilgiri

Experienced member
Moderator
Aviation Specialist
Messages
9,738
Reactions
118 19,734
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
Morocco is aiming for a layered air defence structure in the kingdom. Morocco has way better Air defence systems then Ukraina with their Tor/ S300. Ukraina is actually using their stingers, and s300 quite effectivly but cant compare it with the systems morocco are operating. Why would it be more expensive for morocco to spread?

Simply put, Morocco main cities/population is concentrated (to coastline mostly) compared to its total landmass....compared to Ukraine. This also is the feature for Algeria too (and extends into libya, egypt etc as well).

Putting a critical node of something further away from population+logistic networks (for this population) adds to costs (holding everything else the same for argument sake).

Whereas Ukraine more naturally "benefits" from having cities, towns, logistics all over the place relatively speaking (its all flat, river plain kind of country with few distinctive countours - and it also has huge borders with western/central europe for connection relevance there).

Thats why many parts of morocco and MENA (past the force level argument/analysis) in general can be much more prone to having say short intense punitive border war (rather than huge strategic war)....

....these (border) areas just often dont have the population bulk to add/hedge same resistance as the more inhabited areas concentrated away by some distance (due to the geography of what a desert is, mountains are etc).
 

Nilgiri

Experienced member
Moderator
Aviation Specialist
Messages
9,738
Reactions
118 19,734
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
financially if the war drags out how long could either nation sustain it?

Not very long to be significant.

Algeria could probably keep going for a while longer since it has the larger economy and more overall stable economic liquidity (from its energy industry)....but I doubt it will be enough to make any headway into Morocco core areas.

It will be punitive limited war scenario overall.
 

Knowledgeseeker

Experienced member
Moderator
Arab Moderator
Morocco Moderator
Messages
1,815
Reactions
20 4,631
Nation of residence
Norway
Nation of origin
Moroco
Not very long to be significant.

Algeria could probably keep going for a while longer since it has the larger economy and more overall stable economic liquidity (from its energy industry)....but I doubt it will be enough to make any headway into Morocco core areas.

It will be punitive limited war scenario overall.
Unless morocco bomb all the oil fields.
 

Knowledgeseeker

Experienced member
Moderator
Arab Moderator
Morocco Moderator
Messages
1,815
Reactions
20 4,631
Nation of residence
Norway
Nation of origin
Moroco
Simply put, Morocco main cities/population is concentrated (to coastline mostly) compared to its total landmass....compared to Ukraine. This also is the feature for Algeria too (and extends into libya, egypt etc as well).

Putting a critical node of something further away from population+logistic networks (for this population) adds to costs (holding everything else the same for argument sake).

Whereas Ukraine more naturally "benefits" from having cities, towns, logistics all over the place relatively speaking (its all flat, river plain kind of country with few distinctive countours - and it also has huge borders with western/central europe for connection relevance there).

Thats why many parts of morocco and MENA (past the force level argument/analysis) in general can be much more prone to having say short intense punitive border war (rather than huge strategic war)....

....these (border) areas just often dont have the population bulk to add/hedge same resistance as the more inhabited areas concentrated away by some distance (due to the geography of what a desert is, mountains are etc).
Yeah i do agree with everything you said. Keep in mind that the Atlas mountain in the east is a terrain that is very close to the terrain of turkey. Its the a big fortresss against any invasion. When it comes to the south morocco have already stationed thousand of troops along the 2500 km famous sand wall, with the biggest minefield in the world. @Chakib larbi mentioned that the algerian navy would perhaps flank behind the mountain in north east, but i guess that would be sucide? Does the algerian navy even have the capability, and training for a naval to land invasion🤨
 

Ryder

Experienced member
Messages
10,839
Reactions
6 18,674
Nation of residence
Australia
Nation of origin
Turkey
Not very long to be significant.

Algeria could probably keep going for a while longer since it has the larger economy and more overall stable economic liquidity (from its energy industry)....but I doubt it will be enough to make any headway into Morocco core areas.

It will be punitive limited war scenario overall.

In short a skirmish I think?

Or Morocco and Algeria will try to end it as quickly as possible but the more it drags on the worse it will be for both.

We see already with Russia and Ukraine suffering high attrition rates in both men and materiel. I think Algeria and Morocco would do their best to avoid such a scenario as it could cost big also decades of money along with training and to replace equipment.
 

Gary

Experienced member
Messages
8,361
Reactions
22 12,853
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
At least we have ballistic and cruise capabilities both in sea and air ... What are the capabilities of Morocco in this field? zero ....
What are Morocco's capabilities in repelling ballistic and cruise attacks?zero ....
I could see Algerian TBMs are best used against fixed target (oil storage, radar stations) but it will be hard to ground the RMAF which will likely continue flying. At least that's the case in Ukraine.

Morocco right now are kinda defenseless against TBMs, so they'll have to be patient until PAC-3 arrives.

As for CMs, the Sky Dragon 50 are capable of such. In general, Moroccan air defense will be interesting to see post 2025 period with influx of newly ordered SAM system
What are Morocco's capabilities in retaliation? And in penetrating the Algerian air defense? zero ....
don't be so sure. We're looking at pairs of highly capable HARMs
FLgXNvgX0AUdFaL.jpg:large


It all comes down if RMAF or AAF could outdo each other which until proven in battle, at best we're playing a guessing game on which one is better. But the RMAF does have a more sophisticated jet. It will interesting how fast each other could reach air superiority or stuck into air parity between themselves. I'm more into both getting into stalemate (air parity).
And even if Morocco gain in the future cruise or ballistic capabilities, they will also be limited by the MTCR ...
That is for @Knowledgeseeker to explain, if Morocco is planning to have such capability. I mean if it was me, I'd have the RMAF stock more AGM-88s or JDAM or even this.


I'm not so much into ballistic missile, but more into airstrikes. Fighter jets are proven to be capable to conduct deep strikes even against heavily defended airspace.
 

Gary

Experienced member
Messages
8,361
Reactions
22 12,853
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
more value In which role exactly ....In case of defending Morocco against an Algerian invasion Or in the scenario of a Moroccan attack against Algeria?
Let me put it this way. The Iskander as a payload delivery vehicle delivers a 500kg explosive 300km away. A single F-16 could carry 4x as much and even further deep into enemy territory.

8 F-16 would have similar throw weight to that of an Iskander brigade. And because this is an aircraft, its more versatile, mobile and flexible than an Iskander.
 

Knowledgeseeker

Experienced member
Moderator
Arab Moderator
Morocco Moderator
Messages
1,815
Reactions
20 4,631
Nation of residence
Norway
Nation of origin
Moroco
I could see Algerian TBMs are best used against fixed target (oil storage, radar stations) but it will be hard to ground the RMAF which will likely continue flying. At least that's the case in Ukraine.

Morocco right now are kinda defenseless against TBMs, so they'll have to be patient until PAC-3 arrives.

As for CMs, the Sky Dragon 50 are capable of such. In general, Moroccan air defense will be interesting to see post 2025 period with influx of newly ordered SAM system

don't be so sure. We're looking at pairs of highly capable HARMs
FLgXNvgX0AUdFaL.jpg:large


It all comes down if RMAF or AAF could outdo each other which until proven in battle, at best we're playing a guessing game on which one is better. But the RMAF does have a more sophisticated jet. It will interesting how fast each other could reach air superiority or stuck into air parity between themselves. I'm more into both getting into stalemate (air parity).

That is for @Knowledgeseeker to explain, if Morocco is planning to have such capability. I mean if it was me, I'd have the RMAF stock more AGM-88s or JDAM or even this.


I'm not so much into ballistic missile, but more into airstrikes. Fighter jets are proven to be capable to conduct deep strikes even against heavily defended airspace.

Moroccan layered air defence structure will be interesting to see 2025! But dont forget that morocco still haves FD-2000B, the sky dragon 50 as you mentioned along other air defence systems purchased from china that are not revealed yet. Most of the purchases from the china came after satellite photo from the sidi ghareb airbase in morocco just a couple of months ago. Morocco have also started recieving the vl mica, but i dont know how good the system are, or if its cabale of hitting ballistic missiles? Pac 3 is scheudled to get delievered by this year btw, reportdely ordered in 2018-2019.

For now i have not seen any report that morocco is aiming to go for ballistic missiles, except some reports about the israeli lora, and himars. I have actually seen more reports that morocco is increasing its stock, but also transforming the unguided missiles in the inventor into guided bombs with new solutions. The israeli cruise missile delilah is one the table right now. Morocco also have the harpoon block 2 capable of firing from the f16. I think this is just the beginning, it would be interesting to see morocco will go within the next years with the 12.8 billion usd budget.
 

Knowledgeseeker

Experienced member
Moderator
Arab Moderator
Morocco Moderator
Messages
1,815
Reactions
20 4,631
Nation of residence
Norway
Nation of origin
Moroco
first thing The Algerian land forces are completely superior to their Moroccan counterparts and i'll explain it why in several points

- in In self-propelled artillery.. Algeria operate the PLZ-45 155mm Self Propelled Howitzer System armed with chinese GP6 laser-guided + russian Krasnopol-M2 and south african Assegai V-LAP + the standard ammunition of the PLZ-45....
the PLZ-45 is also equipped with a C2I command and control system and integrated with chinese Type 704A/BL904 and russian 1L260-E counter-battery radars

View attachment 45452

PLZ-45 Simulator with commande and controle Room

View attachment 45453 View attachment 45454

-beside the PLZ-45 algerian army also operate the modernized 2S3M1 Akatsiya 152mm self-propelled gun Equipped with Krasnopol laser-guided projectiles
- The third self-propelled gun used by the Algerian army is 2S1 Gvozdika Which was developed with Poland to the same standard of 2S1T Goździk ....although both 2S1 Gvozdika / 2S3M1 Akatsiya are being replaced by more modern self-propelled gun such as the PLZ-45..


View attachment 45455
- As for towed artillery algeria operate the chinese AH-1 and the modern AH-2 long range 155mm self-propelled howitzer compatible with all standard 155 mm NATO ammunition .. and we also still use the old soviet d-30 122-mm howitzer Which are currently loaded on Mercedes Zetros trucks to increase their mobility .

View attachment 45458
View attachment 45457
View attachment 45459 View attachment 45456

- Now let's talk about mortars Which we use several types of it ,and the Most notable are the Norinco SM4-120mm 6x6 self-propelled mortar.. The mortar is coupled to a ballistic computer and a computerized fire-control system (FCS) and C2 command and control system and armed with GP4/GP9 semi-active laser munitions .

View attachment 45447 View attachment 45451 View attachment 45450 View attachment 45449 View attachment 45448


the Second mortat in the inventory of algerian army are the new chinese 120mm mobile mortar manufactured by Chengdu Lingchuan Special Industry based on the chasis of our locally made Nimr HAFEET 640A the mortar is equipped with an inertial navigation system and a battlefield control system.


View attachment 45445 View attachment 45446

other significant mortar are 120 Mm W86 mobile mortar Installed on a Mercedes G-Class The vehicle has an inertial and GPS positioning system and radio and satellite communications systems.

View attachment 45443 View attachment 45444

You make alot of empty claims out there. I realised you often make claims that algeria is more superior, but no worries im here to debunk this claims.
You mentioned the different artillery of algeria, but i will like to help you a little with stating how many pieces algeria have, and the range of this artillery pieces.

- Self propelled artillery PLZ-45 155M: Both GP, and krasnopol m2 have aproximentaly 25 km in fire range. Algeria have 54 pieces.
- Modernized akatsiya 1522S3M1 mm: Between 18-25 km in fire range. Algeria have 30 pieces.
- 140 2S1T Goździk: Between 18-25 km in fire range. Algeria have 140 pieces

Total: 224 artillery pieces.


Now back to Morocco :)



First of all i want go back to the same claim when i made the post comparing the training, doctorine, and structure between morocco and Algeria. Morococ has been training close with the US in all fields including Artillery skills! Lets hear what the americans say about our skills within artilllery firing.


Capt. Justin T. Kratzer, commander of India Battery, 3rd Battalion, 14th Marine Regiment, said he was impressed with the abilities the Moroccans showcased and said their capabilities had grown vastly since his last participation in African Lion four years ago.“The digital gear that they are using allows them to check where rounds hit for more accuracy. They are very proficient, they have been putting accurate rounds on target, they just do it a little bit different than we do.” ( 2015)


First Sgt. Kurt Douglas said the soldiers of the 15th Royal Artillery Group performed like consummate professionals, making it seem like they have been firing the M109A1, A2 and A3 systems for decades when firing with the m109A5 back in 2012.


Maj. Tyrone Martin, executive officer, 1st Bn.,They approach field artillery much like we do, with the same doctrine and concepts in equipment, however their experiences and strategic objectives allow them to see the same event differently."



Morocco with the M109, and Caesar is the best in africa in terms of quality, and quantity together with Egypt.

- 360 M109 ( Most of M109A2, and m109A5, aswell as a undiclosed figure of M109A6. Possible that modernisation is taking place as instead of new artillery pieces through the Erca program/ Source US millitary handbook 2021-2022 ).

- 36 CAESAR 6x6 artillery pieces. ( On order)

The CAESAR will have around 40 km range with its guided shells. Modern ammunitions will make the m109 be able to shoot with guided shells as ranges of either 20-40- 60 km!


Morocco are much more superior when it comes to artillery in both quantity , and quality aswell as having acquired two uav systems to guide Artillery fire & surveillance. The recent acquisition of artillery UAV's shows that the MAF staff is applying feedback from other theaters of war, and making a strategic watch on new successfull tactics and modern methods of warfare, especially in artillery field. The azerbajanis used drones to find targets, and artillery firing with precision. We also see ukraina use the same tactics where tb2 designate the target for the ukrainan artillery.



Some footage of the m109 of the moroccan armed forces.








@AlphaMike Perhaps you should reconsider giving the algerian army the upper hand between the land forces? ;)
 

500

Contributor
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
Israel Moderator
Messages
789
Solutions
1
Reactions
11 2,939
Nation of residence
Israel
Nation of origin
Israel
Was it really this number? 3000?

Reports in late april (about 2 months later) state about 1300 launches or so till that point....so definitely in initial phase it was not this number then.
X axis - days of war.
Y axis - number of missiles launched by Russia.

They failed to suppress Ukrainian air defence so they are launching missiles in insane numbers.

678678re.JPG
 

500

Contributor
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
Israel Moderator
Messages
789
Solutions
1
Reactions
11 2,939
Nation of residence
Israel
Nation of origin
Israel
more value In which role exactly ....In case of defending Morocco against an Algerian invasion Or in the scenario of a Moroccan attack against Algeria?
More value on battlefield. Cruise and ballistic missiles are only good to destroy infrastructures (and thats in case they are accurate enough).
 

Knowledgeseeker

Experienced member
Moderator
Arab Moderator
Morocco Moderator
Messages
1,815
Reactions
20 4,631
Nation of residence
Norway
Nation of origin
Moroco
@Knowledgeseeker Do you know if Morocco has bought TB2's with Satcom capability (TB2S) ? And does Morocco have communication satellites ?
It is not specified in the media but most likely! The news about the satcom capability came before Moroccan ordered the drone. Morocco does have if I'm not mistaken 2-4 communication satellites. Thank you for asking you reminded me about the moroccan surveilance satelittes. @Chakib larbi Does algeria have any surveillance/ spy satelittes?

@AlphaMike Perhaps you share som value around real-time digital information exchange. As far as im concerned morocco have adopted link 16 system for its operations.
 

Chakib larbi

Contributor
Moderator
Arab Moderator
Algeria Moderator
Messages
1,208
Reactions
14 3,092
Nation of residence
Algeria
Nation of origin
Algeria
I could see Algerian TBMs are best used against fixed target (oil storage, radar stations) but it will be hard to ground the RMAF which will likely continue flying. At least that's the case in Ukraine.

Morocco right now are kinda defenseless against TBMs, so they'll have to be patient until PAC-3 arrives.

As for CMs, the Sky Dragon 50 are capable of such. In general, Moroccan air defense will be interesting to see post 2025 period with influx of newly ordered SAM system

don't be so sure. We're looking at pairs of highly capable HARMs
FLgXNvgX0AUdFaL.jpg:large


It all comes down if RMAF or AAF could outdo each other which until proven in battle, at best we're playing a guessing game on which one is better. But the RMAF does have a more sophisticated jet. It will interesting how fast each other could reach air superiority or stuck into air parity between themselves. I'm more into both getting into stalemate (air parity).

That is for @Knowledgeseeker to explain, if Morocco is planning to have such capability. I mean if it was me, I'd have the RMAF stock more AGM-88s or JDAM or even this.


I'm not so much into ballistic missile, but more into airstrikes. Fighter jets are proven to be capable to conduct deep strikes even against heavily defended airspace.
Algeria for sure will not use iskander to hit the Moroccan Abrams ...It is clearly intended to strike the Moroccan military installations/Fortifications/air defense radars/artillery positions/runways/....etc that are located near the borders of Algeria which most of them are located within the limits of 200 km from the Algerian border...So there is no need to compare Iskander with Jdam, because every one of them has a different operational role..and Algeria also possesses its guided air munitions Including standoff ALCM missile Which can hit Moroccan sites without entering the range of the F-16 and the range of Moroccan defenses .....as for the scenario of war the real battlefield will not be in the North, but rather in the South In the heart of the disputed zone and Where most of the Moroccan military installations are located...

As for the Moroccan military bases behind the Atlas Mountains , specifically the Ben Jarir air base, which hosts the F-16 squadrons The distance from southern Algeria is 300 km ....It is much less than that for the kilo submarines And the Algerian Navy, which will flank the morrocan army from the other side of the atlantic

benghrir.jpg


Ben Jarir air base and Sidi Yahya air defense base, can be targeted by caliber from the Mediterranean or the Atlantic

تف.jpg

ا.jpg
اا.jpg
ت.jpg


I can give you satellite photos of most of the Moroccan military bases, most of which are located within the range of Algerian weapons


As for the F-16? It's funny how you consider that a handful of f-16 fighters ...that was previously shut down by Sam-6 and Manpads is Capable of penetrating a country with the size of two million square kilometers like algeria ...without being detected and destroyed .. you really Makes me feel like we're going to face NATO forces ..

honestly even if we admit the superiority of American fighters against russian one... Morocco does not have a quarter of the American capabilities in ISR/AWACS Capabilities to Dealing with the Algerian IADS And with the numerically superior Algerian Air Force Which is also not that bad technically against a 4th+ generation fighter ..

I think you are really underestimating Algeria's air defense capabilities So let me give you litle overview of it to make the comparison more reasonable

Russian air defense systems of Algeria

+Polyana-D4M1 C4ISR complex + Acacia-E Airspace Management System + S-400

Для неназванного иностранного заказчика (судя по номеру договора комиссии Р/201202131986 от 28.07.2013 это Алжир, код по Общероссийскому классифкатору «012») заказано два (первоначально было три) фургона в иной комплектации КК6.2.31.1.001-03 на базе КАМАЗ-6350 с поставкой в марте этого года. На их базе будут изготовлены изделия МП06РПМ (пункт боевого управления комплекса «Поляна-Д4М1»).

45946179052_c410b1d7b1_o.jpg


Rezonans N/NE very long-range Surveillance Radar “Stealth Air Target Early Warning Radar

EKjhsZLX0AISYbx.jpg


USA made Radar in service of algerian army + raytheon C4ISR /C5I Systems

AN/TPS-78 and TPS-703 Solid-State Tactical Mobile Radar Systems

998572antps703.png

841523antps7x.png


AN/TPS-78HM High Mobility

1549311802080.png


from china

CETC YLC-8B long-range anti-stealth radar system

2019-06-02_05-24-33.jpg



The electronic warfare capabilities of the Algerian army, which are unparalleled in Africa

The ELINC EW CHL-906 / 806 / FKD-900 / LDK-190 ground-based offensive electronic system
used for jamming enemy aircraft. The system comes with impressive Ranges : For Recon more than 600 Km & Jamming 300 Km.

sSfVzz7oQ_A.jpg
vNv7o9l4v4U.jpg
R1Sfj3xVOQA.jpg

main-qimg-59b55ec9e91c153ebe7a57490aba2212.jpg

uOKfRQsqB68.jpg




Kvant 1L222 Avtobaza ELINT system - Kvant SPN-4 High Power X-Band Radar jamming station - DWL002 passive detection radar

wykVCUXX_2U.jpg


Algerian Electronic Warfare/ISR Command and Control Center and Satellite photo of the site which is still under construction


ZSs3vCmohb0.jpg
fkpaAWjVQ_g.jpg
2LzNwgkabyc.jpg
 
Last edited:

Chakib larbi

Contributor
Moderator
Arab Moderator
Algeria Moderator
Messages
1,208
Reactions
14 3,092
Nation of residence
Algeria
Nation of origin
Algeria
You make alot of empty claims out there. I realised you often make claims that algeria is more superior, but no worries im here to debunk this claims.
You mentioned the different artillery of algeria, but i will like to help you a little with stating how many pieces algeria have, and the range of this artillery pieces.

- Self propelled artillery PLZ-45 155M: Both GP, and krasnopol m2 have aproximentaly 25 km in fire range. Algeria have 54 pieces.
- Modernized akatsiya 1522S3M1 mm: Between 18-25 km in fire range. Algeria have 30 pieces.
- 140 2S1T Goździk: Between 18-25 km in fire range. Algeria have 140 pieces

Total: 224 artillery pieces.


Now back to Morocco :)



First of all i want go back to the same claim when i made the post comparing the training, doctorine, and structure between morocco and Algeria. Morococ has been training close with the US in all fields including Artillery skills! Lets hear what the americans say about our skills within artilllery firing.


Capt. Justin T. Kratzer, commander of India Battery, 3rd Battalion, 14th Marine Regiment, said he was impressed with the abilities the Moroccans showcased and said their capabilities had grown vastly since his last participation in African Lion four years ago.“The digital gear that they are using allows them to check where rounds hit for more accuracy. They are very proficient, they have been putting accurate rounds on target, they just do it a little bit different than we do.” ( 2015)


First Sgt. Kurt Douglas said the soldiers of the 15th Royal Artillery Group performed like consummate professionals, making it seem like they have been firing the M109A1, A2 and A3 systems for decades when firing with the m109A5 back in 2012.


Maj. Tyrone Martin, executive officer, 1st Bn.,They approach field artillery much like we do, with the same doctrine and concepts in equipment, however their experiences and strategic objectives allow them to see the same event differently."



Morocco with the M109, and Caesar is the best in africa in terms of quality, and quantity together with Egypt.

- 360 M109 ( Most of M109A2, and m109A5, aswell as a undiclosed figure of M109A6. Possible that modernisation is taking place as instead of new artillery pieces through the Erca program/ Source US millitary handbook 2021-2022 ).

- 36 CAESAR 6x6 artillery pieces. ( On order)

The CAESAR will have around 40 km range with its guided shells. Modern ammunitions will make the m109 be able to shoot with guided shells as ranges of either 20-40- 60 km!


Morocco are much more superior when it comes to artillery in both quantity , and quality aswell as having acquired two uav systems to guide Artillery fire & surveillance. The recent acquisition of artillery UAV's shows that the MAF staff is applying feedback from other theaters of war, and making a strategic watch on new successfull tactics and modern methods of warfare, especially in artillery field. The azerbajanis used drones to find targets, and artillery firing with precision. We also see ukraina use the same tactics where tb2 designate the target for the ukrainan artillery.



Some footage of the m109 of the moroccan armed forces.








@AlphaMike Perhaps you should reconsider giving the algerian army the upper hand between the land forces? ;)
You are happy for the Goniolight system with a simple VECTOR-21binocular ...Unfortunately there is no laser disgnator in this photo only Goniolight with vector 21 for observation purpose and Measure target coordinates..

this is how a Goniolight looks like with JIM LR therma Binoculars and laser disgnator

pemvbu-img5720.jpg


by the way russian Malakhit AAFCS and System Panzergrenadier of algerian army say hallo to the morrocan land forces :LOL: :LOL:

 

Knowledgeseeker

Experienced member
Moderator
Arab Moderator
Morocco Moderator
Messages
1,815
Reactions
20 4,631
Nation of residence
Norway
Nation of origin
Moroco
You are happy for the Goniolight system with a simple VECTOR-21binocular ...Unfortunately there is no laser disgnator in this photo only Goniolight with vector 21 for observation purpose and Measure target coordinates..

this is how a Goniolight looks like with JIM LR therma Binoculars and laser disgnator

View attachment 45543

by the way russian Malakhit AAFCS and System Panzergrenadier of algerian army say hallo to the morrocan land forces :LOL: :LOL:

Funny how you turned a blind eye to the hole post, but focused on only «one» photo i attached. You really losing your credibility now!
 

Chakib larbi

Contributor
Moderator
Arab Moderator
Algeria Moderator
Messages
1,208
Reactions
14 3,092
Nation of residence
Algeria
Nation of origin
Algeria
You make alot of empty claims out there. I realised you often make claims that algeria is more superior, but no worries im here to debunk this claims.
You mentioned the different artillery of algeria, but i will like to help you a little with stating how many pieces algeria have, and the range of this artillery pieces.

- Self propelled artillery PLZ-45 155M: Both GP, and krasnopol m2 have aproximentaly 25 km in fire range. Algeria have 54 pieces.
- Modernized akatsiya 1522S3M1 mm: Between 18-25 km in fire range. Algeria have 30 pieces.
- 140 2S1T Goździk: Between 18-25 km in fire range. Algeria have 140 pieces

Total: 224 artillery pieces.


Now back to Morocco :)



First of all i want go back to the same claim when i made the post comparing the training, doctorine, and structure between morocco and Algeria. Morococ has been training close with the US in all fields including Artillery skills! Lets hear what the americans say about our skills within artilllery firing.


Capt. Justin T. Kratzer, commander of India Battery, 3rd Battalion, 14th Marine Regiment, said he was impressed with the abilities the Moroccans showcased and said their capabilities had grown vastly since his last participation in African Lion four years ago.“The digital gear that they are using allows them to check where rounds hit for more accuracy. They are very proficient, they have been putting accurate rounds on target, they just do it a little bit different than we do.” ( 2015)


First Sgt. Kurt Douglas said the soldiers of the 15th Royal Artillery Group performed like consummate professionals, making it seem like they have been firing the M109A1, A2 and A3 systems for decades when firing with the m109A5 back in 2012.


Maj. Tyrone Martin, executive officer, 1st Bn.,They approach field artillery much like we do, with the same doctrine and concepts in equipment, however their experiences and strategic objectives allow them to see the same event differently."



Morocco with the M109, and Caesar is the best in africa in terms of quality, and quantity together with Egypt.

- 360 M109 ( Most of M109A2, and m109A5, aswell as a undiclosed figure of M109A6. Possible that modernisation is taking place as instead of new artillery pieces through the Erca program/ Source US millitary handbook 2021-2022 ).

- 36 CAESAR 6x6 artillery pieces. ( On order)

The CAESAR will have around 40 km range with its guided shells. Modern ammunitions will make the m109 be able to shoot with guided shells as ranges of either 20-40- 60 km!


Morocco are much more superior when it comes to artillery in both quantity , and quality aswell as having acquired two uav systems to guide Artillery fire & surveillance. The recent acquisition of artillery UAV's shows that the MAF staff is applying feedback from other theaters of war, and making a strategic watch on new successfull tactics and modern methods of warfare, especially in artillery field. The azerbajanis used drones to find targets, and artillery firing with precision. We also see ukraina use the same tactics where tb2 designate the target for the ukrainan artillery.



Some footage of the m109 of the moroccan armed forces.








@AlphaMike Perhaps you should reconsider giving the algerian army the upper hand between the land forces? ;)
Ok Ok just hold on ...


First of all Morocco doesn't have the version of M109A6 .... So Please do not spread misleading information And if you have an official source regarding Morocco’s contract on the M109A6 Plzz provide it....

Second thing so far Moroccan artillery does not have any guided artillery ammunition, whether by gps or laser ...But that may change with the entry of the French CAESAR guns with KATANA or German SMArt 155 ammunition If Germany agrees to it ..So so far my words about the system that are just Goniolight with vector 21 for observation purpose and Measure of target coordinates without any laser disgnato ..is very credible and correct...

Perhaps you also forgot that Morocco owns the Russian Msta-S too ...But what about your towed artillery?

In addition to the counter-artillery radars The Algerian army also uses drones to detect enemy artillery positions and direct artillery fire ... Soon Catic helicopter recce drone AR-500A will be in service and It will mainly be used by artillery regiments and special forces....

What are the types of counter-artillery radars in use with morrocan army ? You didn't mention this.

So what you say about Morocco's superiority over Algeria In the number of artillery pieces it's correct...But In the matter of quality.... the number of modern units .. type of ammunition... guidance and fire control systems..and against a bunch of modern Caesar cannons algeria is Absolutely superior..
 
Last edited:

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom