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ekemenirtu

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There is only so much window for large countries to "get at" each other on something....given the fears of escalation and what that would involve.

But there is somewhat an intense localisation in this area that definitely has potential to get quite active. Right now the looming season (approaching winter and winter) is not conducive to it, lets see how it goes next year.

The series of incidents happened (largely unparalleled to anything before for many decades) and both sides have amassed forces. That in itself is a big change in the prevailing situation than before, but of course it need not be a domino falling situation (w.r.t speed of events) like most may have gotten by how easily that can be done in media/discourse etc.

In summary, nothing big or meaningful has happened.

Much ado about nothing.

China can not defeat India for all its bluster and all the hype. A joke.

India can do very little. It can not even conquer Pakistan.

This thread should die its own natural death.
 

Nilgiri

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A soldier of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) was captured near the Demchok area of Ladakh on Monday after he strayed across the Line of Actual Control (LAC), the Indian Army said.

The Chinese soldier was identified as Wang Ya Long and he is being provided with required medical assistance including oxygen, food and warm clothes, it said.


This comes amid the border tussle between India and China in the region. Both Indian and Chinese armies have deployed over 50,000 troops each along the LAC in eastern Ladakh, including in the Demchok sector, following escalation of the five-month-long military standoff that began in early May.

The Army is questioning the soldier, who is said to be from the 6th Motorised Infantry Division, to see if he is on an espionage mission. He was carrying civil and military documents, sources said.


The solider claimed to have entered India to recover his yak, sources said, adding that he was alone and had no weapons. "If he has entered inadvertently, he will be handed back to the Chinese as per protocol," a source further said.

"A PLA soldier identified as Corporal Wang Ya Long was apprehended in the Demchok sector of Eastern Ladakh on 19 October 2020 after he had strayed across the LAC," the Army said in a statement, adding that a request has also been received from the PLA about the whereabouts of the missing soldier.

As per established protocols, he will be returned to Chinese officials at the Chushul–Moldo meeting point after completion of formalities, the statement read.
 

Nilgiri

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I guess its all quiet right now.

Talks aren't going anywhere given PRC obstinance:



....so stand-off will continue this winter given India will not relinquish tactical heights it seized in operation earlier without specific verifiable guarantees

....winter is too much a risk for major escalation (esp at this altitude), so 2021 spring etc is likely what to watch out for next.
 

Ryder

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Talks aren't going anywhere given PRC obstinance:



....so stand-off will continue this winter given India will not relinquish tactical heights it seized in operation earlier without specific verifiable guarantees

....winter is too much a risk for major escalation (esp at this altitude), so 2021 spring etc is likely what to watch out for next.

China is not going to give in neither will India. The stakes are pretty much high for both sides. None will yield.

Interesting how you had some experts believing India wont stand the pressure or give in which was proven wrong. China also underestimated India now its a deadlock.
 
M

Maximilian Veers

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NEW DELHI: Indian and Chinese military commanders in Ladakh have agreed to restore status quo ante along the Line of Actual Control (LAC), especially on the north bank of Pangong Tso as it existed before May 2020. All that remains is for both sides to formalize the sequencing of steps required to achieve the objective, sources have told StratNews Global.

In the eighth round of talks between Corps Commanders on November 6, the Chinese side has apparently agreed to go back to Finger 8 and remove all temporary structures and deployments the PLA had put up between Finger 4 and Finger 8 since May. Once that is done, both sides are likely to agree to keep the area between Finger 4 and 8 as a ‘no-patrolling’ zone for the foreseeable future. In effect, it would mean neither PLA troops can come up to Finger 4 nor would Indian soldiers go patrolling to Finger 8 as was the practice before May 2020.

The next step, sources say, would be to pull back heavy armour and artillery platforms, currently facing off along the LACs, and withdraw them to depth areas to reduce chances of miscalculation on either side. As we reported a fortnight ago, at some heights on the Kailash range of mountains in the Chushul sectors, Indian T-72 and Chinese Type-99 tanks are deployed barely a few hundred metres apart, albeit with their barrels pointed backwards. This unprecedented faceoff of tanks is considered too risky by both sides. Similarly artillery guns are currently deployed not too far away from the LAC on either side.

The Corps Commanders are likely to meet soon to work out the modalities and agree on a mechanism to verify each of these steps, sources said. If an agreement is reached, the first two steps are likely to be accomplished before the end of the month, the sources added. As for Indian infantry deployment on heights such as Rezang La, Rechin La and Mukhpari—which actually turned the tide at the end of August and has given India the much-needed leverage in the negotiations—more discussions on this aspect are likely to take place subsequently, sources added.

Incidentally, the eighth round of talks was perhaps the shortest discussion between the two sides, attempting to find common ground to resolve the six-month-long military standoff. The parleys in the previous seven rounds went on for more than 12 hours but the talks held last Friday ended in less than 10 hours with a decision to hold another round of meeting soon. Moreover, the Chinese have now shown willingness to discuss a comprehensive package on de-escalation, disengagement and de-induction, in contrast to their earlier stalling tactics.

There is a reason for shorter duration of discussions. Since September, Indian interlocutors have managed to narrow the focus of talks to specific issues of restoring status quo rather than allowing the Chinese to meander along vague demands.

Bold military actions by India on both north and south banks of Pangong Tso at the end of August has brought about this change in the Chinese attitude, those in the know reveal. As reported here (….) Indian Army troops occupied tactically crucial heights on the ridge line of Finger 4 and the Kailash range of mountains on the south bank of Pangong Tso, taking the Chinese by surprise since occupation of passes such as Rezang La and Rechin La besides other peaks has given the Indian Army an advantage it did not possess in the first three months of the standoff.

However, Indian decision-makers have decided to take up the matter of another friction point—the Depsang plains—separately after putting in place a timetable to resolve the standoff along the north and south banks of Pangong Tso.

The story of standoffs at Depsang plains—located in north-east Ladakh, close to Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO) airfield—is almost a decade old, much before the current crisis began in May. The Chinese, having built roads and military infrastructure in their own areas of Depsang plains, had an inherent advantage for a long time. The PLA had intruded in the same area in April-May 2013 and pitched tents there for over three weeks before going back. Because of the topography and better infrastructure, the PLA can watch Indian troops the moment they leave their base to travel to an area called Y junction or bottleneck, since the massive plateau has no vegetation or rocky cover to hide.

Indian vehicle-based patrols have to cross the Y junction to go up to Patrol Points 10, 11 and 12. Since May, like some earlier occasions in the past, the Chinese move to the Y junction the moment they see Indian vehicles approaching the area, block their movement. A faceoff occurs. Both sides stand facing each other and return after three-four hours to their respective bases nearby, those involved in the routine point out. This is repeated every three-four days, they added.

“Reports that India has lost vast territory in Depsang needs to be put in perspective here,” an officer closely involved in monitoring the situation said. “Territory is lost when the adversary occupies land, builds permanent infrastructure and posts troops to hold the ground. In Depsang, nothing of the kind has happened. The Chinese have no presence there; they come temporarily as we go. This has been going on since 2013 and will be taken up separately,” he said.

Through all these developments, commanders on ground as well the leadership in Delhi are working on one basic premise: The Chinese cannot be trusted and each of their actions needs to be verified at every step. However, there is cautious optimism about a breakthrough in the next few weeks. As Army Chief Gen MM Naravane told BharatShakti.in—our sister concern—on Tuesday: “Senior military commanders of India & China are ironing out modalities… we are very hopeful that we will be able to reach an agreement which is mutually acceptable and beneficial…The process is on and we are very hopeful that we will be able to reach an agreement in keeping with overarching policy guideline passed down to both sides from their respective hierarchy.”

Meanwhile, temperatures in the high-altitude desert that is Ladakh have already dipped to minus 20 degree Celsius and likely to go down further as over 30,000 soldiers from either side remain deployed face to face along the LAC. For the sake of those on guard at the border in such adverse weather conditions, both sides must be hoping for an immediate breakthrough in the talks.
 

Nilgiri

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Bulk of forces remain over winter, we should not let our guard down for a second.

 

Nilgiri

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@Nilgiri

Not much new here to be gleamed...its just typical platitudes from a intellectually compromised quisling (jacques) being responded to (esp. at the end) by the author who is more aligned and cognisant to liberal democracies inherent strengths....but seems to think in a binary "either or" response.

These are becoming more and more in vogue last few years. Not many delve into subterranean analysis of what the Chinese economy and polity even is/represents. What is actually real vs what is perceived to be vs what is being faked. What actually do the Chinese innovate in the end vs repackaging and selling in bulk with undervaluation?

Such things are gleamed by looking into what the patent ratio filing (and IPR earning) is internally vs externally...or what are the actual practical applications of science papers published, vs requoting there. There is lot of dissonance once you look into these things...they have at least learned not to get stuck with the (tier 1 --> tier 2) Soviet model (largely only because of what ended up happening to the USSR)...but I dont see a tier 3 or 4 ascended enlightenment for larger breakthrough (that even Japan + East Asian tigers have certain difficulty with)....esp. given all the things with one leg left doggedly in... when you actually go to China and try bring up a few simple questions.
 

Zapper

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Swarm drone system work fast-tracked to take on China’s air defence​


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India is accelerating plans to develop an air-launched swarm drone system designed to attack enemy advanced air defences, like the ones deployed by China across the Ladakh border, thereby greatly reducing vulnerability of pilots and fighter jets to ground based air defences.

The project, which envisages a Jaguar land attack aircraft launching up to 24 killer drones that take down individual targets, already has the Indian Air Force on board and involves at least two startups as well as Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), people aware of the development told ET.

Centre for Artificial Intelligence and Robotics (CAIR) is also involved to help build artificial intelligence (AI) capabilities for target acquisition.


Being developed under the Combat Air Teaming System (CATS) project, the plan is to complete the development process within four years, sources said. The project involves development of four individual systems that will be parallelly tested, they said. The design is underway.

As per current plans, the system will be designed around a manned Jaguar land attack aircraft that is used for deep penetration attack missions, sources said. The mothership would be modified to carry four pods – each a drone that would be able to fly alongside the Jaguar once released.

The concept is that each pod would carry six hunter killer drones that can be launched towards a target area. As the pods are being designed for autonomous operation, the Jaguar crew would be able to direct them in an anti-aircraft weapons environment while staying out of range.

Also being designed is a Very High Altitude Long Endurance (VHALE) unmanned aircraft that will be able to monitor the system and provide real time feedback to controllers. The VHALE is being designed to loiter for days at a stretch at above 70,000 feet, enabling a constant eye on the target area, while staying out of range of most air defence systems.

Sources said detailed presentations on the system have been made to the air force that has expressed a keen interest in the project. The next step is to test individual systems after the design process is completed.

The project would take India into a select league of nations with such technology, the others being France and the US. Sources said the initial projections make it a highly cost-effective system, with the developmental and prototype cost pegged at under Rs 1,000 crore.

While India has a combat edge in the neighbourhood as far as fighter jets go, the ever-present threat has been advanced air defence systems being acquired by adversaries.

The Chinese side has deployed its newly acquired S400 air defence system near Aksai Chin and is developing its own equipment that it is likely to share with Pakistan in the near future.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...sed air defences.&text=The design is underway.
 

Nilgiri

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I don't see them as Chinese. They are Tibetan.

PRC borders do not reflect what China actually is.

Mongolia for example is far more closer to China's political history than Tibet ever was...mostly due to Yuan dynasty.

Same goes for Turkestan...it is not part of Chinese polity, even the name "Xinjiang" betrays this.

Yet Mongolia has separate country....and Tibet and Turkestan don't.
 

xizhimen

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The funny thing is those who followed Dalai Lama into India are over 100 years old by now, how can they be still alive? As for their decendants, they are never Chinese citizens. there are around 100 million ethnic Chinese living overseas, but they are not Chinese citizens, they were born and grow up in other countries and are the citizens of the host countries.
 

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