India India - Pakistan Relations

[crixus]

Despite literally having Hindu origin last names

They even coined the term Muslim Rajputs

Fun part is even Bangladeshis will be Bengalis with or without Islam

 

[Kaptaan]

Jeez I disturbed a hornet's nest here .....

Now my actual question is what Pakistanis will be without Islam

A little bit of knowledge can create delusions. And so it is here. Hindu or no Hindu you will be Adivasi. Invaders from north west conquered native Adivasis with imposed their belief system on you the way the English imposed it on the slaves but even if the accepted the masters language English and religion they remained Dalits or slaves. With regards to Pakistan without Islam we will be the acronym clustered around the provinces of Pakistan.

• Punjab
• Afghan
• Kashmir
• Sindh
• and BalochisTAN.

From 1933 and by the guy who coined the name Pakistan.

 

[Nilgiri]

So you redacted the thread when I replied when some esteemed Ganga-wallahs took exception probably sent hailstorm of PMs to you to act but then post a long rant against Pakistan. And don't start frothing just because I used 'Ganga'walla' because you know it merely refers to those hail from Ganga basin.

The idea of nation or even state is a very recent invention. India did not exist before the British arrived. If your talking about civilization that is a moving, amorphous concept that can be adduced by the person who looks at it.

Your country has been exposed by the covid pandemic. Sing all you like about and is more analogous in many ways to SSA then I care to mention.

Folks are free to post "against" countries. Just forum rules must be followed. No members here mass-reported any post....they even replied to yours. An admin saw one post (not by you) and so did I that broke rules and so I had to use consistency for the whole thread at that point...start to end.

Here's the thing for this forum, you cannot collectively ad-hominem some group of people (or individually).

When I criticize Pakistan, I refer to its elitists running the place and having come up with its particular vision on nation state ethos (given the formation basis). Let me make that crystal clear.

I have nothing against the regular civilian Pakistani who lives under the system...they are to prove their merit and character like anyone else in the world.

You are free to do the same for India on same basis...if you have problem with its nationstate foundation principles as they exist today and how they may bear impact on our psyche as you perceive.

"Ganga-wallah" or whatever is your invented one, I will let it pass.

Dalit etc, if a member cares and reports it (no one seems to be triggered by it here), it will be dealt with then.

It speaks more to your attitude and character rather than anyone you try to collectively diminish.

It is water off ducks back for most of us. We regulars would rather work to get international patents granted to us to 10k per year soon....rather than working to get it past 20 per year.

If we want to bring sub-saharan africa into where they stand in the dev metric, we can. You wont like it again. That stuff is consistent basis aired out (you either can or you cannot)...compared to stuff with varying airing out capacity. In corona case it is stuff like high-test regime and media-transparency+capacity. If they are not equivalent, there is little equivalent basis for comparison.

In the media, we are not in the business of having sole canaries in coal mine like Anthony Mascarenhas you see....building up that much repressiveness in media (and system at large) is not good....as was found out by your elitists few short months later.

You see push comes to shove, we know what "your 1 of us =10 of them" "best" attitude types....had to say to us to be let back to return to their recently cut to better size country (illustrating the whole flawed conception in the most apparent terms like I was getting at before w.r.t the energy spent on internal psychology among elitists and the captive population under them having to suffer it).

Certainly wasn't stuff like "Dalit".....suddenly cat got the tongue on the Dhaka Maidan about the 1 to 10 ratio assertion even.....so qualifiers like "Dalit" were well out of the ambit.

They in the end had to grovel like that...especially given what they were involved with prior (that would catch up to them shortly if they were so callous with ones they entrusted their lives to on honour-basis).

In hindsight (seeing how this all had zero effect on your elitists running the show) we should have just turned over each one to the Bengalis anyway....to give justice for the population....more than Nuremberg did....maybe named it "Searchlight" Trials for best closure. But hey our elitists also have always had pritviraj complex fairly foolishly this long time. Extremely ridiculous how PM Gandhi handled the simla negotiations later as well.

In any case, that slip up (still trusting an opponent's psychology) is on us......but actual warrior folks on the record and actually willing to put their neck on the line for their country and actually act out and come face to face with us..... mean lot more in the end on the matter of calling us "Dalit" or whatever.

They were and are best of the best of you are they not? So if they are adamantly insulting and caustically bigoted defiant like that to the end, it certainly didn't show when they could have.....especially given Dhaka was where the muslim league (and the flag which forms basis for your flag) formed in first place.

So keyboard warriors can try make up for what their actual warriors acted like I suppose.

 

[Nilgiri]

Indian members are also heeded to not pay much attention to the "double dutch flag" types....hitting thanks and the laugh emotes etc.

There's a few of them around, clearly "Dutch" with the "we Turk" basis too. Always consistently extreme-Erdogan/AKP fans too. The check marks all line up only one way.

Its fairly clear what they actually are (assuming they are separate accounts) and why the shame/stealth as to their actual origin.

War in Afghanistan

24 government commandos were killed by Taliban's during an ambush.

defencehub.live

 

[Jackdaws]

Jeez I disturbed a hornet's nest here .....

A little bit of knowledge can create delusions. And so it is here. Hindu or no Hindu you will be Adivasi. Invaders from north west conquered native Adivasis with imposed their belief system on you the way the English imposed it on the slaves but even if the accepted the masters language English and religion they remained Dalits or slaves. With regards to Pakistan without Islam we will be the acronym clustered around the provinces of Pakistan.

• Punjab
• Afghan
• Kashmir
• Sindh
• and BalochisTAN.

From 1933 and by the guy who coined the name Pakistan.

View attachment 23668

Considering the desired entity didn't get almost half of Punjab and most of Kashmir, perhaps it's time to revisit the acronym.

 

[Kaptaan]

So keyboard warriors can try make up for what their actual warriors acted like I suppose.

You seem to be infatuated with the Bengali victory of 1971.

Considering the desired entity didn't get almost half of Punjab and most of Kashmir, perhaps it's time to revisit the acronym.

Given that big chunks of the myth Bharat or whatever have been gouged out you could do with following your own advice.

 

[Kaptaan]

I can't see how you could even raise issue with me using Adivasi. This is a Indian term with referance to native or indigenous Indians. Shall we use some Greek sign for this like Delta variant to avoid offending Indian complex?

Adivasi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

With regards to Ganga-Wallah you know it merely means 'resident of the Ganga Basin' which covers most of the Indian population sans the Dravidians of the south. This is analogous to using Anatolia dwellers'.

Or calling Pakistani's 'Indus landers'.

 

[Nilgiri]

You seem to be infatuated with the Bengali victory of 1971.

If it was Bengali victory solely....odd that they couldn't dispense crude justice (as they were strongly in favour of at the time) on those they vanquished....given what the Bengalis faced. Wouldn't that have been the final result?

When Pakistan army there signed on the dotted line, I am sure the word India was never mentioned anyone on the document.

These are again people that were in the closest know and could simply say "we recognise only the Bengalis as having defeated us and will only surrender to them".....yet it was never the case from such folks willing to put bullet in gun and life on the line. Tell me one Pakistani army unit that surrendered to the Mukti?

Your 10:1 braves would have entrusted their subsequent lives solely to the Bengalis if it was a sole Bengali victory surely?

Instead they entrusted that in the "Dalits" and the Geneva conventions (that strangely didnt apply before to the activities on the basic civilian population under their purview).

That is when they weren't busy giving up quickly before it (as the final realised casualty numbers show in the end) all in contrast to the 10:1 being trumpeted to that point. What a pity. What did that make them by your logic w.r.t "Dalits"?

But then again its not something they asserted to our forces faces when they could have (Thus even accounts of "gallant resistance" by Gen Sam to give them credit).

But I suppose such assertion is all far easier to do when you are far removed from it in time and space...and on a keyboard. Along with this whole ganga-wallah/dalit/etc spiel that you think is really helping your cause....or maybe you are not after that at all.

I am not infatuated with this stuff....but it gets to the root of the matter in calling out asserted collectivist revisionism and your name-calling/name-inventions can fill out the blanks on the rest on where that's all coming from.

They were after all people that actually invested and fought out what they believed in and thus carry the immediate authority on what they think of us and the actions governing it at the time...defintiely compared to a sunday online colourful chat decades later about it to reflect one's own personal "I wish it were so and thus it is so" preferences anyway.

 

[crixus]

Jeez I disturbed a hornet's nest here .....

A little bit of knowledge can create delusions. And so it is here. Hindu or no Hindu you will be Adivasi. Invaders from north west conquered native Adivasis with imposed their belief system on you the way the English imposed it on the slaves but even if the accepted the masters language English and religion they remained Dalits or slaves. With regards to Pakistan without Islam we will be the acronym clustered around the provinces of Pakistan.

• Punjab
• Afghan
• Kashmir
• Sindh
• and BalochisTAN.

From 1933 and by the guy who coined the name Pakistan.

View attachment 23668

Hope you forgot there was part know as East Pakistan but anyways

Even in your screenshot you left Bengalis ,keep on snipping such screen shot hopefully one day you guys find out your identity .

And you proved my point with Islam you have have to take screen shots to prove your identity.

 

[Kaptaan]

If it was Bengali victory solely....odd that they couldn't dispense crude justice (as they were strongly in favour of at the time) on those they vanquished....given what the Bengalis faced. Wouldn't that have been the final result?

Yes, it was. In case you missed the memo Bengali Mukhtos were fighting Pakistan Army in what was full scale insurgency. The strongest military power in history, USA at one point had deployed over 120k men in Afghanistan along with elements from NATO forces have had to high tail it out of Afghanistan.

Yet a 55k force of Pakistan Army was under continous attack from Bengali's Mukhto's from all three sides with the sea behind them and entire Bengal swamp a hostile zone for our guys. Trapped, harassed and little heavy equipment this besiged force then was also attacked by India.

Defeat was writ from day one. Militarily it was impossible mission. So I have no idea why you keep massaging over this. Actually all this did was show the effiminate nature of Indian soldiery. You can't even cross 5 miles on the Lahore front but bluster over what was a Bangla versus Pakistan fight which you lot decided use.

I hold Banglas with some exceptions in extremly low esteem and Indians even lower. Of course I would give some ground to Sikh Punjabi's but rest of the people that go around as 'Indian' the less said the better.

I think this is why your ethnic kith living in Pakistan don't like me. For me religion is just religion. We can convert but we can't change our blood. For me they are just Bihari's, UPites 'baiyyas' full of it.

 

[Kaptaan]

Even in your screenshot you left Bengalis

What you on about?

snipping such screen shot

Where?

 

[crixus]

Yes, it was. In case you missed the memo Bengali Mukhtos were fighting Pakistan Army in what was full scale insurgency. The strongest military power in history, USA at one point had deployed over 120k men in Afghanistan along with elements from NATO forces have had to high tail it out of Afghanistan.

Yet a 55k force of Pakistan Army was under continous attack from Bengali's Mukhto's from all three sides with the sea behind them and entire Bengal swamp a hostile zone for our guys. Trapped, harassed and little heavy equipment this besiged force then was also attacked by India.

Defeat was writ from day one. Militarily it was impossible mission. So I have no idea why you keep massaging over this. Actually all this did was show the effiminate nature of Indian soldiery. You can't even cross 5 miles on the Lahore front but bluster over what was a Bangla versus Pakistan fight which you lot decided use.

I hold Banglas with some exceptions in extremly low esteem and Indians even lower. Of course I would give some ground to Sikh Punjabi's but rest of the people that go around as 'Indian' the less said the better.

I think this is why your ethnic kith living in Pakistan don't like me. For me religion is just religion. We can convert but we can't change our blood. For me they are just Bihari's, UPites 'baiyyas' full of it.

Wow even , even if your figures are correct still 55000 dropped their pants ...and you literally fing a glosrious excuse , hope you know this was the biggest surrender after sec world war .

This is a Pakistani postal tickets better tell your p[sotal department to check facts from you before issuing such facts

 

[Kaptaan]

Wow even , even if your figures are correct still 55000 dropped their pants

I think it is you lot go around wearing those towels around your lower torso and that drop easily. Exactly where do you think the 55k could go? Swim back to Pakistan over 3,000 miles? By the way 93,000 German soldiers including crack SS troops surrendered at Stalingrad salient.

If the number had been 300,000 they would have to surrender. It was a strategic dead end.

Ps. You still did not tell me where I 'snipped' in the previous post?

 

[crixus]

I think it is you lot go around wearing those towels around your lower torso and that drop easily. Exactly where do you think the 55k could go? Swim back to Pakistan over 3,000 miles? By the way 93,000 German soldiers including crack SS troops surrendered at Stalingrad salient.

If the number had been 300,000 they would have to surrender. It was a strategic dead end.

View attachment 23700

Wow if Germans surrenderd you also surrenderd , Pakistani way of glorifying surrender , hope you forgot Germans reached with in 36 Kms of Moscow and they lost due to foolishness of Hitler . I think muslim soldiers are gazis they do Jihad till last breadth , but you shied aways from even giving some basic resistance . Again back to topic we dont want to talk to Pakistan and better dont waste time on such talks .

We are very fine with ignoring Pakistan , will keep on doing that . The time spent on talks with pakistan was literally waste for atleast India and hopefully govt has learned its lessons .

 

[Kaptaan]

Pakistani way of glorifying surrender

And Indian way of bluster by hijacking a Bengali victory. Again where did I snip?

 

[crixus]

And Indian way of bluster by hijacking a Bengali victory. Again where did I snip?

Its still a Bengali victory , who are we to steal it . They fought bravely for their motherland and got their independence from the evil forces which were eager to change their race . We are Ok with who so ever do that seems like next victory will be from Afghanistan

Hope you remeber the defenition given to Pakistan by Afghani NSA recently

Man one thing then why you general signed the instrument of surrender with India .

 

[Kaptaan]

Hope you remeber the defenition given to Pakistan by Afghani NSA recently

He is a nobody but you should recollect what President Nixon said about Indian's which I can't quote here. And you still did not answer my question about what do you mean 'I snipped the screenshot?

 

[crixus]

He is a nobody but you should recollect what President Nixon said about Indian's which I can't quote here. And you still did not answer my question about what do you mean 'I snipped the screenshot?

same Nixon got spitted on his face by the same Indian lady when she broke his lackey into two ...7th fleet coming seems like its still on its way .

I think even Nixon might got surprised the way you guys surrendered .

But again Afghan NSA was speaking truth I know it hurts. Highest bidder first US then Arabs now china and list goes on.

What a fcuk they even welcom their surrendered soldiers with garlands @Nilgiri thumbi if you think that the below pic is offensive then please edit the post :

 

[Nilgiri]

Its still a Bengali victory , who are we to steal it . They fought bravely for their motherland and got their independence from the evil forces which were eager to change their race . We are Ok with who so ever do that seems like next victory will be from Afghanistan

Hope you remeber the defenition given to Pakistan by Afghani NSA recently

Man one thing then why you general signed the instrument of surrender with India .

View attachment 23701

It is for us to discuss and talk with the living and descendants (Bangladeshis) of where the atrocities happened at scale (after complete abandonment of election result favouring their party that spurred the supremacist attitude in raw murderous fashion....that root-ideology we see still present among some).

With them we know quite clearly where we stand in that its a joint effort....as declared by their own founding father and carried on in the debate and discourse (as to who has more credit on it if this is something to nitpick) to this day.

Nearly whole Bong govt (that was robbed of the national election result) fled to India after the March (Op searchlight) atrocities on intellectuals and then mass scale civilian populations.

At fundamental way they (BAL govt in exile) directed nearly every Mukti effort/strategy with help and assistance (on top of the refuge) from India (esp military commanders and intel) from the get go.

Its not like they didn't know what they were up against and that it would need full effort and involvement of India as strongly as possible and within the year in interest of civilian populace. The climax of that was the war when resources and overall environment context was finally at the best time for it.

It would be frankly odd for British+Americans and French to take much stock (if any) of what some proponent of a defeated rump state of Nazi Germany (if one existed, but it wasnt allowed to exist is the difference here) has to say on the matter of how much % split the victory goes towards A and B or if its fully A or B among those involved in the liberation of France.... from beginning to end of it (including rubbishing their own hand on why such liberation need came about).

The supremacist tropes are predictable from such quarters who need to double down + justify on whatever gnaws at them......but that is best left addressed by once again sitting back and watching this decade put good divergence on basic proven reality some more.

Like I have said earlier there is basic psychological reason they will be stuck at well less than 100 patents granted per year abroad per year (if it grows from the current 20 per year at all)....while we will forge to several 10k per year during it...and the commensurate effect it has on the knowledge economy and commerce bulk.

We are not owed a living or handout by anyone and we cannot rely on that complex (just to feed whatever faulty narrative we have dug into and cant dig out of).

We have to continue to eck out and forge our assured future ourselves rather than play cat-call game with whichever surplus-aid provider of the day.

Its all the same reason governing basic things like savings rate (trust of their people in the elitist system) and much more.

The chess comparison between todays Persia, India and the void in between was just a more casual rejoinder of it.

Mental energy is just focused on disturbing non-productive stuff at the basic identity-paranoia level there compared to us. It all just plays out tic tac toe in the end...so you best just let it rather than care about confronting it too much....we have plenty of own problems in our country to address first....that get ignored and left to fester longer than they should by (esp our set of elitists) focusing on those with all kind of other extra problems stuck with them in their head.

Folks like Hoodbhoy speak on this quite well (especially when he is unable to say certain quiet parts out loud).

His mentor (Abdus Salam) knew about it quite firsthand too....his gravestone literally carries the evidence of it.

@VCheng

 

[Jackdaws]

You seem to be infatuated with the Bengali victory of 1971.

Given that big chunks of the myth Bharat or whatever have been gouged out you could do with following your own advice.

Did someone claim "Bharat" is based on an acronym which will never bear fruit? Earlier you mixed Empires and civilizations and now it seems you are mixing up nation-states and civilizations to suit your narrative.