India India - Pakistan Relations

[Jackdaws]

I think it is you lot go around wearing those towels around your lower torso and that drop easily. Exactly where do you think the 55k could go? Swim back to Pakistan over 3,000 miles? By the way 93,000 German soldiers including crack SS troops surrendered at Stalingrad salient.

If the number had been 300,000 they would have to surrender. It was a strategic dead end.

Ps. You still did not tell me where I 'snipped' in the previous post?

View attachment 23700

Good thing the Brits didn't expect their troops to swim when they evacuated them from Dunkirk.

 

[Jackdaws]

Wow even , even if your figures are correct still 55000 dropped their pants ...and you literally fing a glosrious excuse , hope you know this was the biggest surrender after sec world war .

This is a Pakistani postal tickets better tell your p[sotal department to check facts from you before issuing such facts

View attachment 23699

55,000 combatants. The rest could be within the Armed forces as non combatants like drivers, radio operators, medics etc. They would still be considered part of the Armed Forces - they would not be civilians. They were as much responsible for the genocide in East Pak as their combatant colleagues.

 

[FalconSlayersDFI]

Dude let me ask you one thing

Turks will be Turks with out without Islam
Persians will be Persians with or without Islam
Arabs will be Arabs with or without Islam
Syrians will be Syrians with or without Islam
Egyptians will be Egyptians with or without Islam
Iraqis will be Itaqis withor without Islam.

Now my actual question is what Pakistanis will be without Islam may be just a bunch whose only existence is they hate the relegion of their forefathers , they hate India may be some wanna be Arabs or Turks or Kazaks .

The root cause of problem is identity crisis and no talk of what ever level will solve it

Pakistanis deny their ancestry and that is the reason they call themselves Arabs and Turks, I’ve seen Pakis with shekhawat, chawla, sehgal, kapoor, pannu, randhawa, chaudhary surnames and they say we’re not Indians, we are arabs and turks, their own flag is basically the flag of All India Muslim League with a white strip on the left for minorities, their flag itself has India in it. Allama Iqbal who was one of founding fathers of Pakistan wrote a song before Partition or even the Pakistan movement “Saare jahan se achha Hindustan hamara” and later became one of the founding fathers of Pakistan. Ask any Hindu in Pakistan who is the original inhabitant of that region as Hinduism is the oldest religion on earth, they don’t even recognise the existence of Pakistan, they recognise it for their survival but deep down they don’t, same for BD hindus. After conversion they start believing they are a superior race and don’t belong to India. Calling India a british creation is a comment made by an ignorant guy who forgot that it is Pakistan who got created by brits. Concept of Bharat is beyond his understanding because he does not have any logical counter arguements then he like an average paki will start name calling and trolling you. This is the reason that they are destroying their Indian past and culture and becoming more arabic because they can’t justify their own existence this is the reason why they break temples, mass convert, rename cities and land marks to hide their past. Why is it so that both of Pakistan’s national languages don’t belong to Pakistan i.e. Urdu (India) and English (Britain), today’s pakistanis like any other north indians used to speak hindi/urdu as their 2nd language apart from UP where it was the mother tongue (hindi and urdu are same language different vocabulary) and after partition they made Urdu their language as it was the most widely spoken 2nd language in north India and they are persianising it more and more, so much so that even my muslim friends from Lucknow (reportedly birthplace of Urdu) are unable to get what Pakistanis are saying a sthey have incorporated a lot of new persian and arabic words into it to make it sound as different from Hindi as it can, they made Sindhi language written in devnagri script to be written in nastaliq script, Pakistan’ national anthem is in persian language and pakistan’s currency has turkish flag in it, they renamed tonnes of landmarks to hide their past like this... (by the way he is a Hindu of Pakistan).

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1374269345002631171

 

[VCheng]

Folks like Hoodbhoy speak on this quite well (especially when he is unable to say certain quiet parts out loud).

His mentor (Abdus Salam) knew about it quite firsthand too....his gravestone literally carries the evidence of it.

Nothing succeeds like success. Bangladesh now has a smaller population, a larger budget and greater per capita income. All we can do is pretend we are still doing better than them. A pretty sad spectacle.

 

[crixus]

@Isa Khan budd see the post 88 seems like you guys are not even considerd as part of Pakistan in 1947

 

[crixus]

It is for us to discuss and talk with the living and descendants (Bangladeshis) of where the atrocities happened at scale (after complete abandonment of election result favouring their party that spurred the supremacist attitude in raw murderous fashion....that root-ideology we see still present among some).

With them we know quite clearly where we stand in that its a joint effort....as declared by their own founding father and carried on in the debate and discourse (as to who has more credit on it if this is something to nitpick) to this day.

Nearly whole Bong govt (that was robbed of the national election result) fled to India after the March (Op searchlight) atrocities on intellectuals and then mass scale civilian populations.

At fundamental way they (BAL govt in exile) directed nearly every Mukti effort/strategy with help and assistance (on top of the refuge) from India (esp military commanders and intel) from the get go.

Its not like they didn't know what they were up against and that it would need full effort and involvement of India as strongly as possible and within the year in interest of civilian populace. The climax of that was the war when resources and overall environment context was finally at the best time for it.

It would be frankly odd for British+Americans and French to take much stock (if any) of what some proponent of a defeated rump state of Nazi Germany (if one existed, but it wasnt allowed to exist is the difference here) has to say on the matter of how much % split the victory goes towards A and B or if its fully A or B among those involved in the liberation of France.... from beginning to end of it (including rubbishing their own hand on why such liberation need came about).

The supremacist tropes are predictable from such quarters who need to double down + justify on whatever gnaws at them......but that is best left addressed by once again sitting back and watching this decade put good divergence on basic proven reality some more.

Like I have said earlier there is basic psychological reason they will be stuck at well less than 100 patents granted per year abroad per year (if it grows from the current 20 per year at all)....while we will forge to several 10k per year during it...and the commensurate effect it has on the knowledge economy and commerce bulk.

We are not owed a living or handout by anyone and we cannot rely on that complex (just to feed whatever faulty narrative we have dug into and cant dig out of).

We have to continue to eck out and forge our assured future ourselves rather than play cat-call game with whichever surplus-aid provider of the day.

Its all the same reason governing basic things like savings rate (trust of their people in the elitist system) and much more.

The chess comparison between todays Persia, India and the void in between was just a more casual rejoinder of it.

Mental energy is just focused on disturbing non-productive stuff at the basic identity-paranoia level there compared to us. It all just plays out tic tac toe in the end...so you best just let it rather than care about confronting it too much....we have plenty of own problems in our country to address first....that get ignored and left to fester longer than they should by (esp our set of elitists) focusing on those with all kind of other extra problems stuck with them in their head.

Folks like Hoodbhoy speak on this quite well (especially when he is unable to say certain quiet parts out loud).

His mentor (Abdus Salam) knew about it quite firsthand too....his gravestone literally carries the evidence of it.

@VCheng

And the latest news from Pakistan is .. just sharing

Pakistan's donkey population increases by 100,000​

Pakistan's donkey population increases by 100,000 | The Express Tribune

Population growth of horses and mules remain stagnant, reveals economic survey

tribune.com.pk

No offence to donkeys and it have nothing to with Pakistan when it comes to Patent registration and Chess grand masters

 

[Nilgiri]

And the latest news from Pakistan is .. just sharing

Pakistan's donkey population increases by 100,000​

Pakistan's donkey population increases by 100,000 | The Express Tribune

Population growth of horses and mules remain stagnant, reveals economic survey

tribune.com.pk

No offence to donkeys and it have nothing to with Pakistan when it comes to Patent registration and Chess grand masters

This is neither here nor there on what I have been saying. Animal husbandry is something we should wish well for developing countries everywhere, it directly impacts aam-admi sustenance.

Rather we must be focused on where the society elitists/establishment are focusing the rotten psyche and putting real resources to it (to harm our innocents in the end):

Cpl days ago it was 170,000 views and now it's reached 220,000 views. Far exceeds any sustained reach of the usual "he said she said" forum/twitter circular drama.

Parts of this documentary make my blood boil (in way I cannot describe) just like it did in 2008 during the terrorist events in Mumbai.

It is no wonder same elitist lot openly support barbaric taliban in other side of neighbourhood as well...and their previous actions with their own country in 1971 that continue in less brazen fashion in the areas bordering AFG now.

Wherever you have this psyche established in the elitists, brings the barbarism on civilians (aam-admi) at mass concerted scale inevitably when whatever political/ideological basis/understanding/hierarchy goes awry.

Where you have sufficient counter-force against it (needs another country and elitist ideology to exist) it is matter of how much of it then gets through the gaps that also inevitably exist.

It is those gaps have to be learned about (often the hard bloody way) and worked upon by ourselves and our allies. Those that stay with us longest in this process are the truest allies on it.

So rather than care too much about day to day donkeys, horses, cows etc....members should do their bit to pass on this documentary to any they know that are interested to know more on the subject as even 1 million views is not sufficient IMO...given the sound+crystal explanation (with intel folks going on the record openly) in most direct terms by DW here.

In fact this documentary should be slapped in the face of some "elected" (not selected) "PM" (who called OBL a "martyr") telling us about whatever pre-conditions on "talks" while Hafiz Saaed and his handlers (among others) still breathing and festering there. Indian MOFA need not do anything more, certainly need not waste words/time in official reply drama.

Let me add FATF is only the small start of the growing intersection between India and West in the post-cold war era. It will accelerate and solidify this decade even more. If the other sides elitists need to be cut to size on the buffers they have inherited and taken for granted...if they need to do an 180 and change from English educated elitism to Chinese one (and then set this direction for the aam-admi too), they can very well put in that time and effort needed. But the pressure must become as suffocating for them as we can make that....no more cushy easy-street on their relative unchallenged terms. The process has already started and will have to increase and tighten.

In the end Truth must defeat untruth just like our national motto.

@Zapper @FalconSlayersDFI @Raptor @Jackdaws et al.

If @VCheng has comments, I would like to hear them too.

 

[VCheng]

In fact this documentary should be slapped in the face of some "elected" (not selected) "PM" (who called OBL a "martyr") telling us about whatever pre-conditions on "talks" while Hafiz Saaed and his handlers (among others) still breathing and festering there. Indian MOFA need not do anything more, certainly need not waste words/time in official reply drama.

Let me add FATF is only the small start of the growing intersection between India and West in the post-cold war era. It will accelerate and solidify this decade even more. If the other sides elitists need to be cut to size on the buffers they have inherited and taken for granted...if they need to do an 180 and change from English educated elitism to Chinese one (and then set this direction for the aam-admi too), they can very well put in that time and effort needed. But the pressure must become as suffocating for them as we can make that....no more cushy easy-street on their relative unchallenged terms. The process has already started and will have to increase and tighten.

In the end Truth must defeat untruth just like our national motto.

I would agree with that assessment broadly, with the observation that nothing substantive is likely to change on the Pakistani side simply because they have left themselves with no alternative pathway given the economic and demographic challenges that have been left to spiral beyond any hope of recovery. Hence, the process that has started, as you mention, must be slow and deliberative to ensure and orderly and largely internal collapse to reduce any outside spillover.

Truth will win, always.

 

[Nilgiri]

I would agree with that assessment broadly, with the observation that nothing substantive is likely to change on the Pakistani side simply because they have left themselves with no alternative pathway given the economic and demographic challenges that have been left to spiral beyond any hope of recovery. Hence, the process that has started, as you mention, must be slow and deliberative to ensure and orderly and largely internal collapse to reduce any outside spillover.

Truth will win, always.

It wont be a direct intense impulse, Indian power is not going to grow that suddenly to do such anyway...rather it will be thermostat ramp largely commensurate to how the disparity in the relative economic and power levels evolve this decade.

Recent example:

Pakistan PM postpones UK tour, wanted pact similar to India: report

Islamabad [Pakistan], June 22 (ANI): Pakistan Prime Minister and former international cricketer Imran Khan's scheduled visit to the UK next month, has been postponed after Islamabad was not satisfied with the Boris Johnson government's offer for something more substantial than a cricket match...

www.aninews.in

Imran postpones UK visit

LONDON: Prime Minister Imran Khan's visit to the UK, scheduled for next month, will not go ahead as Pakistan wanted engagement with the UK beyond just a cricket match and a ceremonial meeting, while...

www.thenews.com.pk

 

[crixus]

This is neither here nor there on what I have been saying. Animal husbandry is something we should wish well for developing countries everywhere, it directly impacts aam-admi sustenance.

Rather we must be focused on where the society elitists/establishment are focusing the rotten psyche and putting real resources to it (to harm our innocents in the end):

Cpl days ago it was 170,000 views and now it's reached 220,000 views. Far exceeds any sustained reach of the usual "he said she said" forum/twitter circular drama.

Parts of this documentary make my blood boil (in way I cannot describe) just like it did in 2008 during the terrorist events in Mumbai.

It is no wonder same elitist lot openly support barbaric taliban in other side of neighbourhood as well...and their previous actions with their own country in 1971 that continue in less brazen fashion in the areas bordering AFG now.

Wherever you have this psyche established in the elitists, brings the barbarism on civilians (aam-admi) at mass concerted scale inevitably when whatever political/ideological basis/understanding/hierarchy goes awry.

Where you have sufficient counter-force against it (needs another country and elitist ideology to exist) it is matter of how much of it then gets through the gaps that also inevitably exist.

It is those gaps have to be learned about (often the hard bloody way) and worked upon by ourselves and our allies. Those that stay with us longest in this process are the truest allies on it.

So rather than care too much about day to day donkeys, horses, cows etc....members should do their bit to pass on this documentary to any they know that are interested to know more on the subject as even 1 million views is not sufficient IMO...given the sound+crystal explanation (with intel folks going on the record openly) in most direct terms by DW here.

In fact this documentary should be slapped in the face of some "elected" (not selected) "PM" (who called OBL a "martyr") telling us about whatever pre-conditions on "talks" while Hafiz Saaed and his handlers (among others) still breathing and festering there. Indian MOFA need not do anything more, certainly need not waste words/time in official reply drama.

Let me add FATF is only the small start of the growing intersection between India and West in the post-cold war era. It will accelerate and solidify this decade even more. If the other sides elitists need to be cut to size on the buffers they have inherited and taken for granted...if they need to do an 180 and change from English educated elitism to Chinese one (and then set this direction for the aam-admi too), they can very well put in that time and effort needed. But the pressure must become as suffocating for them as we can make that....no more cushy easy-street on their relative unchallenged terms. The process has already started and will have to increase and tighten.

In the end Truth must defeat untruth just like our national motto.

@Zapper @FalconSlayersDFI @Raptor @Jackdaws et al.

If @VCheng has comments, I would like to hear them too.

@Nilgiri this documentary is picket up by Indian media

 

[crixus]

@Kaptaan what an achievement , even German media is making documentary on Pakistani's achievemnet in Europe , America , Asia and Australia .

 

[Raptor]

Drones used to drop bombs on IAF station in Jammu, first of its kind attack in India

Two IAF personnel sustained 'very minor' injuries. While no fighters are based at the Jammu technical airport, the base has helicopters like Mi17 and transport aircraft.

www.google.com

and they want peace lol,peace with Pakistan is never ever ever possible.

 

[Kaptaan]

what an achievement

Media is like mouths. They all have agenda. I think most know about Islamic fundamentalism that has birthed this terror. The biggest culprits for that are USA, the West and Saudia Arabia. You even see now how they are supporting radicals in Syria while trying to destroy the secular government in that country. Ditto Libya.

With regards to the specific link you posted I expect lot of this over the next year. USA and NATO are really pissed off that they got taken to the cleaners in Afghanistan and are now running out faster then they arrived.

Over all Pakistan is heading in the right direction under Imran Khan.

 

[Kaptaan]

@Nilgiri @VCheng You both boys keep circling yourself and massaging the mantra 'Pakistan be finished'. They been saying that for 70 years. Pakistan will prosper and be a better place to live then India. I have no doubt about it.

And @Nilgiri you keep ranting about this 'demographic bomb'. Few facts you should know. Pakistan's population growth rate has been falling. So the trend is downwards. Furthermpre the reduction is most profound in the most populous province Punjab. Even Karachi is slowing after the floodgates from India have been shut down.

Most of the growth that is now talking place is on the more sparsely populated western province of Khyber Pakhtunkwa and Balochistan. These areas have plenty of space to cope with increase.

You should worry more about the crucible of Indic civilization that is the Ganga basin where even rivers are populated with numbers. States like Utter Pradesh, Bihar etc.

 

[Philips]

If Manmohan Singh and Imran Khan would rule at the same time, the peace process would've accelerated greatly. Both countries need to be lucky with regards to timing of political leadership.

 

[Jackdaws]

If Manmohan Singh and Imran Khan would rule at the same time, the peace process would've accelerated greatly. Both countries need to be lucky with regards to timing of political leadership.

Not really. MMS heavily invested in peace and got 26/11 in return. Vajpayee got Kargil. I personally hate everything about Modi, especially his economic and social policies. But he has handled Pakistan well. No point talking unless the talks are about return of Pak occupied Kashmir to India.

 

[Philips]

Not really

Read my comment thoroughly before replying.

 

[Jackdaws]

@Nilgiri @VCheng You both boys keep circling yourself and massaging the mantra 'Pakistan be finished'. They been saying that for 70 years. Pakistan will prosper and be a better place to live then India. I have no doubt about it.

And @Nilgiri you keep ranting about this 'demographic bomb'. Few facts you should know. Pakistan's population growth rate has been falling. So the trend is downwards. Furthermpre the reduction is most profound in the most populous province Punjab. Even Karachi is slowing after the floodgates from India have been shut down.

Most of the growth that is now talking place is on the more sparsely populated western province of Khyber Pakhtunkwa and Balochistan. These areas have plenty of space to cope with increase.

You should worry more about the crucible of Indic civilization that is the Ganga basin where even rivers are populated with numbers. States like Utter Pradesh, Bihar etc.

If Pakistan prospers and does better than India, as an Indian I won't begrudge them that. Some Indians might find it unpalatable.

Infact, from what I've read Pak was doing economically better than India right till India adopted the open markets in 1991.

I always thought Lanka would be first country in South Asia to become a developed nation given its low population density and high levels of education. But I guess the Civil War there put paid to that.

We will see what happens to Yogi and Modi in the next election. I don't see Yogi winning it in 6 months' time. Modi still may.

 

[Jackdaws]

Read my comment thoroughly before replying.

I should have been clearer. My bad. My point is that Imran Khan or Nawaz Sharif or Bhutto doesn't matter. Their civilian leadership has barely any say in the India policy. Only chance was when Mushy was President and Army Chief simultaneously during the Manmohan era but there were some internal political issues in Pak which lead to his exile / removal. Else it doesn't matter what Imran Khan wants.

 

[Kaptaan]

No point talking unless the talks are about return of Pak occupied Kashmir to India.

At least you got that right. I have never understood how India, nearlky 7 times larger has behaved like a mouse over Kashmir. There are two ways of looking at Kashmir.

• either it is India's in which case Pakistan needs to get kicked out POK.
• either it is Pakistan's in which case India needs to get kicked out of IOK.

Pakistan, despite being the underdog has tried to act on it's stance and made a grab for IOK. This is bizzare considering you would expect India being the larger country to make a grab for POK.

In this game of Tom & Jerry it is Jerry that has been pushing to grab the cheese out Tom's mouth.

In Europe this would be like Belgium pushing Germany around for piece of land. I suspect Belgium would have been erased in 24 hours. Ooops come to think of it that did happen until Allies came and kicked the Krauts out.