Not until we take back GBHopefully we will have peace with Pak and convert LoC to IB and end this nonsense once and for all.
Latest Thread
Not until we take back GBHopefully we will have peace with Pak and convert LoC to IB and end this nonsense once and for all.
Change in Indian outlook too. India now wants Gilgit Baltistan. Its no longer about converting the LoC to IB. That ship has sailed.Pakistan wants Kashmir while India will do whatever necessary to keep it.
Gen S.A Hasnain is always a pleasure to listen to/read.
Here he gives summary and a few extra details (on the deep state etc) on what we have talked about a bunch on this forum at much more length.
Also gives some apt predictions and conclusions at the end too.
@VCheng @Paro @Jackdaws @crixus @Zapper et al.
The Indian Army and paramilitary forces are in India and obviously need to secure its borders. The ISI and Pakistani policies have repeatedly failed - doesn't mean they won't try again. The hiding that Pakistan received in 1965 didn't stop it from trying to grab Siachen which it couldn't in 1984 or occupying the Kargil heights in 1999 where it received another hiding.Does it mean that there is no pressing need for any Indian Army presence in Kashmir anymore for keeping most of the unwilling Kashmiris glued to the artificially constructed Republic of India?
If so, that would be welcome news in many regions of the world. The oppressed and subjugated peoples of Kashmir can finally breathe free and lead their lives according to their wishes, fulfil their national or higher aspirations.
The neighbouring countries in SAARC can breathe free as the region will be less militarized and there may be less political acrimony among countries.
The citizens of the two involved countries may also breathe free since they would have no longer many valid reasons for holding grudges or potentially fighting an existential war that can see their family members, children or grandchildren charred or eviscerated.
Moreover, given the anemic state of Indian defense industrial complex, there is no risk of a war-profiteering defense industrial complex perpetuating occupation or war as can be found in the USA, for example.
All in all, if it is indeed true that the Indian Army will withdraw entirely from Kashmir given the comprehensive failure of ISI, I believe such a retreat will be seen positively across all quarters.
Does it mean that there is no pressing need for any Indian Army presence in Kashmir anymore for keeping most of the unwilling Kashmiris glued to the artificially constructed Republic of India?
If so, that would be welcome news in many regions of the world. The oppressed and subjugated peoples of Kashmir can finally breathe free and lead their lives according to their wishes, fulfil their national or higher aspirations.
The neighbouring countries in SAARC can breathe free as the region will be less militarized and there may be less political acrimony among countries.
The citizens of the two involved countries may also breathe free since they would have no longer many valid reasons for holding grudges or potentially fighting an existential war that can see their family members, children or grandchildren charred or eviscerated.
Moreover, given the anemic state of Indian defense industrial complex, there is no risk of a war-profiteering defense industrial complex perpetuating occupation or war as can be found in the USA, for example.
All in all, if it is indeed true that the Indian Army will withdraw entirely from Kashmir given the comprehensive failure of ISI, I believe such a retreat will be seen positively across all quarters.
The Indian Army and paramilitary forces are in India and obviously need to secure its borders. The ISI and Pakistani policies have repeatedly failed - doesn't mean they won't try again. The hiding that Pakistan received in 1965 didn't stop it from trying to grab Siachen which it couldn't in 1984 or occupying the Kargil heights in 1999 where it received another hiding.
They might try again - probably with the same result.
For understanding what I will write will require removal of prejudiced glasses.
a. Abolishment of Art 370
b. Breaking up the erstwhile state of J&K into Union Territories.
c. Increase in rapid infrastructure buildup across the Indo- China border.
These are things which a Pakistani sees and goes red. What you do not see, is a notification which got passed. And this is the law which should scare the hell out of the Pakistani think-tank brigade.
‘Union Territory of Jammu and Kashmir Re-organisation (Adaptation of Central Laws) Third Order, 2020’
This is the land reforms notification of the GoI applicable to both Union Territories. What exactly do you think is going to happen? Let me try and explain it further.
a. Increase in land purchase by Kashmiri Pandits who left Kashmir during the insurgency.
b. Increase in land purchase by spouses who can now purchase land in Kashmir.
c. Increase in land purchase by companies
d. Increase in land purchase and inward movement of civilians who are non Kashmiri over a period of time.
What exactly do you think, we are doing? Over the next 10-15 years, you will see a demographic change in the Valley. While Pakistanis will be busy saving their own country from the debacle and failure of their state due to the constant interference of the Pakistani Army, we will strengthen our position in the Valley.
What do you think will happen next?
It's possible the Pakistanis shot down more aircraft that Indians did - it needs to be factored in that India flew a lot more sorties. It's like saying the Allies lost more soldiers than the Germans at Normandy. That has to do with the fact that toward the end of the war, Germans did not have as many soldiers.If the Indian Army or paramilitary forces are in India alone, and not anywhere else where the population deeply resents their presence, their occupation or treatment of the locals, there should not be any unusually high level of Indian occupation army presence in the regions of Kashmir or North Eastern regions surrounding Bangladesh.
In 1965, Pakistan apprently shot down more Indian aircrafts than the number of PAF aircrafts that were shot down.
Since Pakistan's ISI has already lost, and also lost the plot, Indians should no reason to be concerned. Their military presence in Kashmir can be reduced and that will probably, in all likelihoods, lead to better relations with neighbours and other countries, too.
The occupied peoples of Kashmir and elsewhere too can breathe a sigh of relief.
It's possible the Pakistanis shot down more aircraft that Indians did - it needs to be factored in that India flew a lot more sorties. It's like saying the Allies lost more soldiers than the Germans at Normandy. That has to do with the fact that toward the end of the war, Germans did not have as many soldiers.
No army known as the Indian Occupation Army exists. The Indian Army is only present in various parts of India were there is an external threat perception. India has reasonably good relations with democracies in its vicinity. Communist regimes and banana republics known for genocide and terrorism can't be trusted.
Of course the Germans were an excellent fighting force. They occupied all of Western continental Europe. The comparison to Pakistan which has lost all the wars it has ever fought in its history can be seen as flattering. I get your point.On the topic of Germans in World War II, their excellence in warfare is generally widely acknowledge by all of their enemies alike. It is also widely acknowledged that the Germans killed and wounded more of their enemies than their enemies killed or wounded theirs.
The Indian Occupation Army, expectedly, does not refer to it by that name. Most Kashmiris, however, do not agree. If you argue that the Indian Army only exists whereever their neighbours (such as China, Pakistan) may pose a threat, then this may not explain the existence of the Southern Air Command of the IAF, or the Eastern Naval Command of the IN, or perhaps the Southern Command of IA.
True enough, Hindutva regimes often renowned for Saffron terrorism can not be trusted. In that case, the bulk of Indian Military and Paramilitary forces should be focused inwards.
Couple that with a tendency to invade and annex erstwhile independent countries or states such as Hyderabad, Goa, Sikkim, Junagadh or attempts to do so in Kashmir, and the problem is only compounded further.