India Indian Military ORBAT and Wargaming

[Nilgiri]

No, seriously. I will sit down in front of the PC tomorrow. Let’s see….need to familiarise myself with deeper functions and unexplored options first. Mastering all CMO functions will take some time. It is such a vast and comprehensive simulation to dive in. I mean, no wonder professionals and armed force use it for wargaming.

My knowledge in Land warfare doctrines, tactics, techniques and procedures is not bad. (I would say) But fairly basic in Air & space domain. And probably primitive in naval warfare.

How is this effort going so far? Just some small test cases etc to get an idea of how it all works etc.

 

[Afif]

How is this effort going so far? Just some small test cases etc to get an idea of how it all works etc.

Surprisingly, it has gone well. wasn’t that hard actually, got into most of the functions without much problem. Already run few small straight forward simulations.

For example, A mech battalion supported by Artillery and Air defence fending off a larger enemy formation who had areal reconnaissance assets.

Planning to do a more complex scenario soon.

Where I encounter some problem is, when setting up ground units/facilities. Not anything technical but finding the exact models and variants is really hard. CMO's data base set up is on real world/hypothetical unit based, If they made it on weapon/platform model based, it would have been much easier to do the selection and find the exact platform/weapon variant that I am looking for. Any tips regarding this would be helpful.

Also, another thing I noticed that when the formation looses some of its elements, they don’t seem to do any tactical regrouping or repositioning within the formation, (whether they are advancing or doing static defence) like would happen in real world. But I guess that would be too much detail for a simulation.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Where I encounter some problem is, when setting up ground units/facilities. Not anything technical but finding the exact models and variants is really hard. CMO's data base set up is on real world/hypothetical unit based, If they made it on weapon/platform model based, it would have been much easier to do the selection and find the exact platform/weapon variant that I am looking for.

This is precisely the problem that the previous 'Controller' for the simulated war-game had faced. Let us ask him what he did as work-arounds.
What we can do is

1. Defined 'Commands' (ie, Pakistan facing Western Command, Tibet/China facing Northern Command, general maritime Southern Command - more or less aligned to the discussion going on within Indian military circles; some additional commands that seem to need definition, as classified information or public, being
   1. Eastern Command: part of Arunachal Pradesh, Nagaland, Manipur, Mizoram, with Myanmar and ongoing insurrectionary activity as focus area;
   2. Central Command: to ensure that some reserve light infantry is left over to meet exigencies;
   3. Far West Command: a sub-command under Southern Command, tasked with the oceanic front from Durban, South Africa to Cha Bahar, Iran;
   4. Far East Command: another sub-command under Southern Command, tasked with the oceanic front from the Strait of Malacca to Kagoshima, Japan;
   5. Aerospace Command: resources independent of all other commands; includes
      1. Transport Command: supplementary to transport facilities within individual commands;
      2. Space Command: specific to Space control and management of defence;
   6. Air Defence Command: centralised air defence facilities, independent of all other commands;
   7. Logistics Command: responsible for military logistics for all commands;
   8. Medical Command: responsible for military oriented medical care;
   9. Signals and Communications Command: responsible for offensive and defensive operations on communications platforms.
   10. Strategic Command: planning, development, management and development of nuclear devices.

(cont.)

 

[Joe Shearer]

1. 
   
2. Define General formations in functional terms, across services, thus
   1. Defence Teams and Defence Groups - solely for guarding vulnerable locations, primarily artillery-oriented with light infantry guards;
   2. Combat Teams, Combat Groups - specific to opposing formations, committed to defeat identified opposing formations from all three opposing services, objective to weaken those opposing formations;
   3. Battle Teams, Battle Groups - designed to integrate all fighting arms into small groups of nimble hunter-killer teams, ranging in size from brigade equivalent to corps equivalent, with full complement of all equipment required;
   4. Assault Team, Assault Group - expanded Battle Team/Battle Group.

I have tentative definitions of headcount and arms distribution for these, but would obviously need help in refining the crude outlines.

 

[Joe Shearer]

1. As above
2. As above
3. Define starting positions
   1. Define Air Defence Command in outline, with details filled in for Western Command;
   2. Place Defence Teams/Defence Groups along defensible borders;
      1. Mobile Teams and Fixed Teams
   3. Identify opposing Order of Battle, separately for
      1. Army
      2. Air Force
      3. Navy
   4. Define composition and targets of Combat Teams to address each of these components
      1. Army Combat Teams
      2. Air Force Combat Teams
      3. Navy Combat Teams
   5. Define Battle Teams/ Battle Groups.
      1. For Army only - Build around factors of
         1. Fast
         2. Well-armed -
            1. Auto-firing cannon - 20mm cannon dual mount, 30mm cannon, 40 mm cannon
            2. SP mortars - 120 mm
            3. Howitzers - 105 mm
            4. MBRL - Pinaka 50 kms
            5. SR SAM Batteries - 10 kms range
         3. Designed around available engines, weapons, system integration, unmanned aerial vessel integration, unmanned land vehicle integration, unmanned naval vessel integration
         4. Backed by
            1. Self-propelled heavy artillery (tubed) 155 mm,
            2. MBRL with 200 kms+/200 kms/100 kms/ 70 kms range, SAM batteries
            3. MR SAM Batteries - 50 kms range (needs verification)
            4. LR SAM Batteries - 100 kms range (needs verification)
      2. For Air Force only -
         1. For fast jets:
            Build around factors of
            1. Heavy load bearing capacity for fast jets
               1. WVR missiles - hypersonic
               2. BVR missiles with long range equivalent to Chinese equivalents- hypersonic
               3. EW pods
               4. Integral fuel tanks
               5. Standardised communications links
            2. Standardised turbo-jet motors, made in country
            3. AESA radars with high capacity
         2. For refuelling
         3. For Electronic warfare
         4. For airborne control
         5. For transport - fixed wing
            1. Minimum capacity - 10 MT with STOL
            2. Maximum capacity - 50 MT with STOL
         6. For transport - rotary wing
            1. Scouting and reconnaissance
            2. High level observation
            3. 10 passenger
            4. 30 passenger
            5. 100 passenger
         7. For combat - rotary wing
            1. Light Combat Helicopter - 5 MT
            2. Combat Helicopter - 20 MT
         8. For observation, patrol and interception
            Unmanned Aerial Vehicle
            1. Long-range monitoring and SAM guidance
            2. Long-range monitoring and radar observation
            3. Medium-range missile carrying - hypersonic missiles
         9. Air Defence Unit
            1. LR SAM
            2. MR SAM
            3. SR SAM
         10. AIR FORCE BATTLE WING
             1. Flight * 4 (16) Air Superiority Fighter
             2. Flight * 1 (4) Refuelling a/c
             3. Flight * 1 (4) EW a/c
             4. Flight * 1 (4) Airborne Control
             5. Flight * 8 (32) UAV - Observation, missile guidance, radar signal sharing,
             6. SP LR SAM Batteries * 8
             7. SP MR SAM Batteries * 16
             8. SP SR SAM Batteries * 32
         11. AIR FORCE BATTLE GROUP
             1. Flight * 8 (32) Ground Attack a/c
             2. Flight * 4 (16) Attack
             3. Flight * 4 (16) Air Superiority Fighter
             4. Flight * 1 (4) Refuelling a/c
             5. Flight * 1 (4) EW a/c
             6. Flight * 1 (4) Airborne Control
             7. Flight * 8 (32) UAV - Observation, missile guidance, radar signal sharing,
             8. SP LR SAM Batteries * 8
             9. SP MR SAM Batteries * 16
             10. SP SR SAM Batteries * 32
      3. For Navy only

 

[Joe Shearer]

when the formation looses some of its elements, they don’t seem to do any tactical regrouping or repositioning within the formation, (whether they are advancing or doing static defence) like would happen in real world.

I have never seen the metal version of CMO, but what we had done during the simulation was to issue an explicit command re-grouping the scattered elements. I could explain with examples, if required.

 

[Afif]

I have never seen the metal version of CMO, but what we had done during the simulation was to issue an explicit command re-grouping the scattered elements. I could explain with examples, if required.

Thanks, I know how to do that too. I was only complaining if I left the simulation running they don't regroup on their own.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Thanks, I know how to do that too. I was only complaining if I left the simulation running they don't regroup on the their own.

Ah, so.

 

[Afif]

Why the auto correction keep messing with me??

Anyway, I have few questions. We seems to be adding non existing hypothetical
formations/compositions. For example, Air defence command, specifically tailored battle groups. Previously, I was under the impression everything would be based on real world units/formations.

So, are both sides free to create/add formations and weapons of their choosing? Is there any limit to it?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Why the auto correction keep messing with me??

Anyway, I have few questions. We seems to be adding non existing hypothetical
formations/compositions. For example, Air defence command, specifically tailored battle groups. Previously, I was under the impression everything would be based on real world units/formations.

So, are both sides free to create/add formations and weapons of their choosing? Is there any limit to it?

Yes, and no. More no than yes.

• What I am doing is making schematics - a stage before blueprints - of the entire order of battle for Western Command, as that is the command that will be deployed in the war game.
• At every stage of these schematics, it is being planned to accommodate whatever is in the pipeline today, and to extrapolate it to the date on the simulation; the last time around, it was 2030, and we therefore demanded that it should reflect the expanded strength to be expected in 2030, not the actual head-count in 2022, when the simulation was played (may have been early 2023).
• If the Indian Army had 37 divisions in total, it was assumed that almost all of these would be available in their current dispositions on Western Command and Northern Command.
• The other commands that you saw in my schematics were not considered for the simulation; we can build any number of such commands and not affect the order of battle that the opposition will accept as realistic.
• However, we could add to these present formations whatever, according to public information, was being planned for procurement. That would include a large number of Tejas aircraft, several squadrons of Rafale a/c. (in 2023, the planned for acquisition figure was only what had been acquired already, for the purposes of 2030, we are taking credit for larger numbers of Tejas, and larger numbers of Rafale; Sukhoi numbers to stay the same).
• In 2023, we had gamed assuming two aircraft carriers; we will continue with that for the next iteration.
• However, many more missile boats, corvettes, frigates and destroyers will be shown.

All the expansions over current inventory and present order of battle are matters for bargaining and negotiation before play begins. Last time, we used whatever actual inventory there was, added the known procurement orders, and MOST IMPORTANT, progressed from battalions/brigades/divisions and troops/squadrons/regiments to battle groups and assault groups.

So all the armour was pooled (not physically, just for planning), then aggregated into battle groups, each battle group brought together to represent the minimal movement from existing locations today to the locations that we wanted to start with. There were some exceptions; units had been moved from central India to the north, the Akhnur - Pathankot sector.

I hope this gives you a feel for what was assembled to play; what is outlined here is a framework for organising existing troops into battle formations that we thought would give us an edge over the Pakistani formations.

PLEASE feel free to ask and to question seeking answers.

 

[Afif]

@Joe Shearer Facilities and airbases would be on real world locations right?

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer Facilities and airbases would be on real world locations right?

Air Force - 90%, but I hope we will be allowed some expansion/additions.
Navy - 95%, some minor cosmetic changes, perhaps
Army - some major differences, thus

• Current locations of divisions to be retained, subject to information about details of presence in East Ladakh
• Regrouping will change locations, but that depends on how we play this time around
• If according to attack on Okara, on Jhelum, on Mirpur Khas, then
  • One (amphibious) strike corps at Junagadh or near
  • One strike corps at Pathankot/ Jammu/ Poonch
  • Three strike corps centred on Bathinda