India Navy Indian Navy

[Nilgiri]

I was about to ask this several times, but looking at Indian destroyers and frigates i have a sense of "Russian" ecole, i know this doesn't apply to electronics and sensors, but overall shape and arrangement is such, any particular reasons for that?

During the 2nd half of cold war, there was huge influence on Indian navy and ship design etc from USSR.

Admiral Sergey Gorshkov and Svernoye Design Bureau (did lot of consultancy/advisory w.r.t Indian Navy design in crucial 80s that later inherited in successor classes) come to mind especially.

The weapons systems, sensors etc are much more diverse increasingly, sourced from local efforts, Israeli, western etc....on top of Russian or indigenized Russian.

 

[Paro]

Remember I posted two links about slack or orders for private shipyards by shukla. Read those combined with this one. I’ll try posting them later in the night.

 

[Gary]

@Nilgiri what's with Indian shipyard efficiency? If I recall correctly it took at the very least 4 years to construct a Kamorta ASW corvette.

 

[Nilgiri]

@Nilgiri what's with Indian shipyard efficiency? If I recall correctly it took at the very least 4 years to construct a Kamorta ASW corvette.

It is given in the article:

Take, for instance, the delivery schedule of the fourth Project 28 ASW guided-missile corvette—INS Kavaratti P-31, which was handed over by the MoD-owned, Kolkata-based Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers Ltd (GRSE) to the IN on February 18, 2020. This corvette’s keel-laying had taken place on January 20, 2012, followed by hull-launch on May 19, 2015. Yet, it took more than five years for this vessels to be service-inducted (on October 22, 2020).

The first three in the series, INS Kamorta P-28 (whose metal-cutting began on March 1, 2006; keel-laying took place on November 20, 2006; the hull was launched on April 19, 2010; her maiden sea-trial took place in June 2013; was handed over to the IN on July 12, 2014; and she was commissioned on August 23, 2014), INS Kadmatt P-29 (keel-laying on September 27, 2007; hull-launching on October 25, 2011; and commissioned on January 7, 2016) and INS Kiltan P-30 (keel-laying on August 10, 2010; hull-launch on March 26, 2013 and commissioned on October 16, 2017) took between seven and nine years to be delivered.

The principal reason for such delayed deliveries was a critical miscalculation by the DND of the warship design’s displacement and weight, which had led to the first three corvettes becoming top-heavy and consequently a laborious and time-consuming weight-shedding effort had to be carried out by GRSE.

==========

It is not really GRSE (shipyard) efficiency issue...but rather the higher level design stage by DND (directorate naval design) babus and project management there.

It is a good article, it talks about other projects too. When you have large resource projects you need things to mesh like a well tuned car transmission (A need to sync with B and sync with C etc)...otherwise gears end up grinding and thats a problem of cost and time....especially given in lot of projects they dont seem to get you need to freeze the design (esp whatever is non-modular) and commit to it rather than constantly messing around on what you want it to have.

 

[Anmdt]

It is given in the article:

Take, for instance, the delivery schedule of the fourth Project 28 ASW guided-missile corvette—INS Kavaratti P-31, which was handed over by the MoD-owned, Kolkata-based Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers Ltd (GRSE) to the IN on February 18, 2020. This corvette’s keel-laying had taken place on January 20, 2012, followed by hull-launch on May 19, 2015. Yet, it took more than five years for this vessels to be service-inducted (on October 22, 2020).

The first three in the series, INS Kamorta P-28 (whose metal-cutting began on March 1, 2006; keel-laying took place on November 20, 2006; the hull was launched on April 19, 2010; her maiden sea-trial took place in June 2013; was handed over to the IN on July 12, 2014; and she was commissioned on August 23, 2014), INS Kadmatt P-29 (keel-laying on September 27, 2007; hull-launching on October 25, 2011; and commissioned on January 7, 2016) and INS Kiltan P-30 (keel-laying on August 10, 2010; hull-launch on March 26, 2013 and commissioned on October 16, 2017) took between seven and nine years to be delivered.

The principal reason for such delayed deliveries was a critical miscalculation by the DND of the warship design’s displacement and weight, which had led to the first three corvettes becoming top-heavy and consequently a laborious and time-consuming weight-shedding effort had to be carried out by GRSE.

==========

It is not really GRSE (shipyard) efficiency issue...but rather the higher level design stage by DND (directorate naval design) babus and project management there.

It is a good article, it talks about other projects too. When you have large resource projects you need things to mesh like a well tuned car transmission (A need to sync with B and sync with C etc)...otherwise gears end up grinding and thats a problem of cost and time....especially given in lot of projects they dont seem to get you need to freeze the design (esp whatever is non-modular) and commit to it rather than constantly messing around on what you want it to have.

Weight management is one of the most crucial step at warship design and there is a dedicated work group and manager for weight management (yet, aside of displacement calculation but it can be resolved by taking less or more fuel), weight miscalculations are fatal and usually unacceptable by the operator.

Considering India's huge demand of modernization and acquisition, i would expect a modular design of series, expandable from heavy frigate to corvette, light destroyer to heavy destroyer. Commonality at designs would also allow shipyards to built different platforms, and not being shocked by a new design. It really matters for a shipyard, especially workers, to get used to a design so that error and re-makes can be minimized. I am unsure if being under influence of Russian shipbuilding has affected this, since we can hardly see modular-expandable designs in Russian navy -correct me if i am wrong, this is my perception-.

I think there are some effort to use common hulls for future or ongoing project, but what i was referring was something to be done in the past. Not talking about some so-called modular design of Damen's sigma class, in nature all of ship designs are modular, but what i talk about something similar to the Japan's new frigate design or Korean FFX, or FREMM.

 

[Gary]

It is given in the article:



The principal reason for such delayed deliveries was a critical miscalculation by the DND of the warship design’s displacement and weight, which had led to the first three corvettes becoming top-heavy and consequently a laborious and time-consuming weight-shedding effort had to be carried out by GRSE.

==========

I read this part already, I mean isn't there any stability test using models before they give the go ahead to construct, also is there any other worthy mentionables like lets say, contractors not delivering critical parts and equipment on time.

also quite interesting to see how the Indian Navy will fix the problems, I saw the P-17 Nilgiri will all be finished in at least 2025, in an era of competition with the Chinese, India I believe should do better.

the US for example had now reveal a plan to launch 4 Frigate in a single year.

"We’re going to need two, three, four frigates built a year to get to the numbers of where we want to be," O’Brien said. “This yard has the capability to build two or three of them itself.”

Navy Boss Talks 'Joint Strike Frigate' Concept After Calls To Build Four Frigates A Year

The Navy's new frigate could be among the most realistic ways of getting anywhere close to realizing the service's huge fleet ambitions.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Isa Khan]

https://www.facebook.com/Livefist/posts/3530044167034181

 

[Nilgiri]

Tri-Service Andaman & Nicobar Command conducted a joint triservice Ex #BullStrike’ at Teressa Island in Nicobar Islands, closer to #MalaccaStrait from 03 to 05 November 2020. The Exercise included Parachute Brigade of the Army, and Special Forces components of the Indian Navy. The exercise also witnessed amphibious operations and combat free fall by three services as part of #ExBullStrike

 

[Nilgiri]

Deployment Pattern Of Indian Navy's Undersea Warfare Assets

Thus, by doing the math, we can safely conclude that at least one Type 877EKM SSK (out of the eight remaining in service), one Scorpene SSK ...

trishul-trident.blogspot.com

(Pictures at link)

Thus, by doing the math, we can safely conclude that at least one Type 877EKM SSK (out of the eight remaining in service), one Scorpene SSK (out of four as of two days ago), one Class 209/Type 1500 SSK (out of four) and perhaps the Project 971 Shchuka-A SSGN (INS Chakra) are at sea on patrol at any given time.

 

[Nilgiri]

Indian Navy Celebrates Diwali By Firing Cruise Missiles, Torpedoes & Rockets Into The Sea: Watch | PG-Intel

PG-Intel is an IT and Business Security News Website which covering the latest news, research, cyberthreats, business updates and geopolitics.

pg-intel.com

 

[Gary]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1319298949031706624

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1319272497959727110

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1318031634415996929

what CMS are Indian Navy using on board it's destroyers and frigates??

 

[Nilgiri]

what CMS are Indian Navy using on board it's destroyers and frigates??

WESEE (Weapon and Electronics System Engineering Establishment) was set up in mid 80s.

Generally it works alongside DRDO, BEL etc.

They do the CMS stuff, I am not sure of the particular names given per class of ship etc.

Here is example on some details for the Kolkata class:

Indian Navy Kolkata Class Destroyers

An extensive, in depth analysis of the Indian Navy Kolkata Destroyer Class (Project 15A).

medium.com

Example of tenders: https://defence.capital/2019/11/15/india-navy-setting-up-ai-and-ml-lab-for-combat-management-system/

Lately TATA has also joined and gives competition to BEL in the development and manufacture of CMS:

Site Suspended - This site has stepped out for a bit

There are couple smaller players in CMS field for India too taking shape:

Indian defence SME beats out global giants to deliver command system to Malaysian warships

ajaishukla.blogspot.com

 

[Test7]

Indian Navy takes delivery of ninth Boeing P-8I patrol aircraft​

Boeing supports India’s growing P-8I fleet by providing training of Indian Navy flight crews, spares, ground support equipment and field service representative support
18 November 2020: Indian Navy recently took delivery of its Ninth Boeing P-8I Patrol Aircraft. This is the first of four additional aircraft under the options contract signed by India’s Ministry of Defence in 2016. Also, it is an integral part of Indian Navy’s fleet and has surpassed 25,000 flight hours since it was inducted in 2013. Indian Navy was Boeing’s first international customer for the P-8 and recently completed seven years of operations

“Our focus has been, and will be, on delivering the world’s best maritime patrol aircraft to the Indian Navy,” said Surendra Ahuja, managing director of Boeing Defence India. “The P-8I, with its exceptional maritime surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities, versatility and operational readiness, has proven to be an important asset to the Indian Navy. We remain committed to supporting the modernization and mission readiness of India’s defence forces.”

Boeing supports India’s growing P-8I fleet by providing training of Indian Navy flight crews, spares, ground support equipment and field service representative support. Boeing’s integrated logistics support has enabled the highest state of fleet readiness at the lowest possible cost.

Boeing is currently completing construction of the Training Support & Data Handling Centre at INS Rajali, Arakkonam, Tamil Nadu, and a secondary center at the Naval Institute of Aeronautical Technology, Kochi, as part of a training and support package contract signed in 2019. The indigenous, ground-based training will allow the Indian Navy crew to increase mission proficiency in a shorter time while reducing the on-aircraft training time resulting in increased aircraft availability for mission tasking.
Boeing’s advanced aircraft and services focus play an important role in mission-readiness for the Indian Air Force and Indian Navy. Boeing is focused on delivering value to Indian customers with advanced technologies and is committed to creating sustainable value in the Indian aerospace sector – developing local suppliers, and shaping academic and research collaborations with Indian institutions.

Indian Navy takes delivery of ninth Boeing P-8I patrol aircraft - MRO Business Today, Latest Aerospace News

MRO Business Today is a premier industry fortnightly digital e-News Magazine that is distributed to more than 21,837* high profile MRO professionals worldwide

www.mrobusinesstoday.com

 

[Cabatli_TR]

 

[Nilgiri]

Hit by budget crunch, Indian Navy now plans to buy 2 Landing Platform Docks instead of 4

Navy is working on a fresh request for proposal with new specs, two months after the defence ministry cancelled the 2013 RFP to buy 4 Landing Platform Docks.

theprint.in

New Delhi: A budget crunch could force the Indian Navy’s hand to cut down the number of Landing Platform Docks (LPDs) it is seeking to buy, ThePrint has learnt. The Navy is now looking at two LPDs, also known as amphibious transport docks, instead of four.

Defence sources told ThePrint that the Navy is working on drafting a fresh ‘Request for Proposal’ (RFP) with new specifications for the LPDs, and discussions are on to reduce the number to two. However, a senior defence official told ThePrint that the Navy can float another tender in the future to buy the other two LPDs, depending on its priorities.

(More at link)

 

[Gary]

Hit by budget crunch, Indian Navy now plans to buy 2 Landing Platform Docks instead of 4

Navy is working on a fresh request for proposal with new specs, two months after the defence ministry cancelled the 2013 RFP to buy 4 Landing Platform Docks.

theprint.in

New Delhi: A budget crunch could force the Indian Navy’s hand to cut down the number of Landing Platform Docks (LPDs) it is seeking to buy, ThePrint has learnt. The Navy is now looking at two LPDs, also known as amphibious transport docks, instead of four.

Defence sources told ThePrint that the Navy is working on drafting a fresh ‘Request for Proposal’ (RFP) with new specifications for the LPDs, and discussions are on to reduce the number to two. However, a senior defence official told ThePrint that the Navy can float another tender in the future to buy the other two LPDs, depending on its priorities.

(More at link)

foreign or local build???

 

[Nilgiri]

foreign or local build???

Original RFP bids envisaged local build. (Amounted to about 3 billion USD for 4 ships).

L&T teamed up with Navantia

Pipavav (RNEL) teamed up with DCNS (naval group now).

It was billed as largest private shipyard contract thus far in India.

RNEL going bankrupt (and now in proceedings regd that) did not help matters at all.

 

[Nilgiri]

Bharat Electronics and Terma sign agreement for Indian coastal surveil

According to a press release published on November 20, 2020, Indian company Bharat Electronics Ltd has chosen Danish-based company Terma, once again, for P

navyrecognition.com

The Coastal Surveillance System of the Indian Coast Guard is aimed at covering the entire Indian coastline in two phases. While Phase I has been successfully established with the network of 46 SCANTER 2001 radar sites, Phase II will cover up the gaps and strengthen it with 38 more SCANTER 2001 radar sites.

“Continuing our well-established partnership from Phase I into Phase II, Terma will be providing additional technology transfer to BEL for manufacturing the radars required for CSS Phase II project. Most of the modules/spares etc. will be made by BEL and its vendors in India. The complete installation/commissioning and life cycle support of the radars is also going to be undertaken by BEL,” explains Anupam Mathur, Vice President & General Manager, Terma Asia Pacific. He continues:

“Terma understands India’s call for self-reliance and its move towards ‘Make-in-India’ and ‘Atmanirbhar Bharat’ (self-reliant India) and thereby extends its support by adapting to the country’s demand and offering Transfer of Technology (ToT). We are proud of the trust shown by the Indian Coast Guard and BEL in Terma and are looking forward to a successful and strong partnership.”

Terma has been manufacturing radars for more than six decades with an annual delivery of more than 100 radars a year for the last 10 years.

Terma’s Coastal Surveillance solution helps to protect coastlines and in the maritime domain. Our Coastal Surveillance solution is based on our world-renowned family of SCANTER radars which detects targets at a range exceeding IALA advanced requirements.

Terma radar can separate multiple (non-cooperative) surfaces and air targets in close proximity, in all weather conditions (sea states), which is important for SAR missions in low visibility, but also to protect the natural resources from illegal fishing, track and control foreign vessels, and fight criminals wanting to get access to the territorial waters or the main land.

With the completion of Phase II of the project, Terma will have more than 100 operational land-based radar sites in India.

 

[Nilgiri]

First production units of Varunastra Heavy Weight Torpedo deliver to I

According to a Tweet released by the Indian DRDO (Defense Research and Development Organization) on November 22, 2020, the first production units of the In

navyrecognition.com

The Varunastra or Heavy Weight Torpedo (HWT) has been designed and developed by NSTL, Visakhapatnam. BDL, being the Production Agency, is manufacturing Varunastra at its Visakhapatnam Unit for the Indian Navy. The new torpedo is also being offered for export.

The Varunastra is an Indian advanced heavyweight anti-submarine torpedo, developed by the Naval Science and Technological Laboratory (NSTL) of the Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) for the Indian Navy.

The Varunastra is a ship-launched, heavyweight, electrically-propelled anti-submarine torpedo capable of targeting quiet submarines, both in deep and shallow waters in an intense countermeasures environment. It can be fired from all ASW ships capable of firing heavyweight torpedoes. VARUNASTRA has been inducted by the Indian Navy in 2016.

The Varunastra torpedo can achieve speeds in excess of 40 knots (74 km/h; 46 mph), weighs around 1.25 tons, and can carry 250 kg (550 lb) of a conventional warhead. According to the Indian Defense Industry, it is the only torpedo in the world to have a GPS-based locating aid.

 

[kaykay]

40 km range at 40 knots. Not bad. Cab replace all the old SUT torpedoes in service for 2-3 decades.