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Gessler

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Does Nilgiri class frigates feature VDS for ASW?

The Atlas Elektronik ACTAS has variable-depth capability and has been fitted onto Talwar-class as well as Shivalik-class.

In all likelihood the same model will go onboard Nilgiri as well. But it may or may not have it at the outset.
 

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@Gessler what are your thoughts on this if any?


On 31 July, a Hyderabad-based company named Astra Microwave Products Pvt. Ltd. issued its annual report. Buried in dry text, under the heading “Major projects due for delivery during the year 2023-24”, was an innocuous line item: “6 Mtrs S-Band AAAU for strategic Naval application of DRDO”.

Hardly anyone has read the report, and most of those who did would have glossed over the arcane acronym, but the news was enough for our ever-alert Defence Twitter to explode in ecstatic frenzy.

As is the wont of this curious breed, social media was soon filled with an array of
befuddling acronyms: LR-MFR, BMD, LRSAM, IFEP, SBR, and more.

To fully understand the reasons behind such heady jubilation, we must travel back in time to 16 August 2014, and the commissioning of the INS Kolkata, our first Kolkata-class stealth guided-missile destroyer.

That is when Prime Minister Narendra Modi made, what is probably, his first strategy speech. Standing on the decks of a truly fearsome warship, which bristles with racks of the near-unstoppable Brahmos supersonic cruise missile, he said that military prowess was the biggest deterrent to war.

The symbolism was unmissable even to the blind. Yet, as lethal as the Brahmos is, the warship’s greatest strength is actually the cutting-edge Israeli radar it carries – the EL/M-2248 MF-STAR, since such vessels are only as good as the sensors they have.

The ability to sail upon distant blue waters, to land a punch with a Brahmos, is possible only if a warship is protected by a radar which can detect inbound threats in advance.

And this Israeli radar is so good that the Indian Navy standardized it for succeeding classes of warships as well: the follow-on Vishakhapatnam-class destroyers, and the Nilgiri-class frigates presently under construction and commissioning.

The Israeli radar has four antennae covering all four quadrants. Each antenna is three meters by three meters wide, and can detect multiple targets approaching in multiple profiles from multiple directions – be they fighter aircraft at high altitudes, or low-flying missiles which skim the sea.

This is important, and necessary, since the role of destroyers and frigates is not just to fire offensive weapons like the Brahmos, but to defend a fleet – especially aircraft carriers. Essentially, force projection is a function of protection offered by such radars.

Above this is a broader function of theatre-level ballistic missile defence. This concept was pioneered some decades ago by the American Navy and has become a stock-in-trade feature of large navies today, with the ability of detect, track, and destroy such threats improving in step with advances in radar technology.

The Americans are developing a new radar for their Arleigh Burke-class destroyers. Called the AN/SPY-6, and sized at 4.3 meters, it is larger than the Israeli radar. While requisite details are not available, this new radar is expected to offer significantly enhanced capabilities, to both detect threats earlier, and to counter saturation attacks (multiple missiles launched simultaneously at a target).

Similarly, the antenna of the Chinese Type 346B radar (called the ‘Star of the Sea’) being installed on their latest Type 055 destroyers is 4 meters in diameter.

Putting it all together at sea is a lot more complicated than setting up such systems on land, because diverse components, all large and heavy, have to fit onto a single ship. But once done, these radars, integrated with offensive and defensive missile systems, allow navies to dominate vast swathes of ocean in an elegant, efficient manner.

That is why the Israeli radar on board the Kolkata is called an MF-STAR: a Multi-Function Surveillance, Track And Guidance Radar.

A hypothetical war scenario puts these functions in perspective: The Indian Navy’s Western Naval Command is tasked to conduct an amphibious assault on the Makaran Coast of Baluchistan, using the Indian Army’s premier amphibious force – 91 Brigade (The Amphibians) based at Trivandrum in Kerala.

To succeed, the INS Kolkata and her sisters would have to simultaneously ward off fighter jets launched from Pasni Air Base, plus a clutch of missiles including the ballistic Shaheens and Ghauris, and cruise missiles like the Babur and the Exocet, while locating key targets to guide their own Brahmos missiles towards.

Astra Microwave’s new radar is a major step forward in this challenging domain.

With a diameter of 6 meters, it is a whopper!

Even the Americans, whose strategic planners have been screaming for a 6-meter antenna for years, have been restricted to a 4.3-meter radar because that is all the deckhouse of an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer can accommodate.

In technical terms, this radar is called an AAAU – an Active Antenna Array Unit.

Very little information is available about it in the public domain (and rightly so), but we do know that it has been installed on the Indian Navy’s secretive testbed, the INS Anvesh (which was commissioned into the Navy in a low-key ceremony early last year).

The technology was originally developed by India’s Defence Research Development Organization, the venerable DRDO, as the core of its AAAU programme for the Indian Air Force. Its functions span the spectrum of electronic warfare, and, very importantly, electronic countermeasures as well.

An antenna diameter of 6 meters means a surface area of 36 meters. Pertinently, that makes this radar four times larger than the Israeli one currently installed on our frigates and destroyers.

The implications are stupendous, since the larger the surface area of an antenna, the more the number of transceivers can be installed on it; and the more such nodes an antenna has, the more powerful the radar becomes.

So, what are the implications of this landmark moment?

First, it is now obvious that the India is developing an extremely advanced radar for a new class of warships.

We don’t yet know what those surface vessels are, but readers may bear in mind that the two primary ongoing naval construction programmes, for the Vishakhapatnam-class destroyers and the Nilgiri-class frigates, will be completed in the period of 2024-2026.

There are unconfirmed rumours of a new class, dubbed the ‘Next Generation Vessel’, or ‘Project 18’.

These warships, to be built entirely in India, are expected to be far more potent than anything the Indian Navy currently possesses (or other large navies, for that matter), but frankly, without official confirmation, the bottom line is that we simply don’t know.

All we know for sure is that the docks at Mazagon, Kochi and Kolkata, will not be left to quietly gather moss once the current programmes are completed.

Second, a 6-meter antenna is one more bit of evidence to show that India’s defence industry is not just catching up with the rest of the world, but slowly, very slow, moving ahead in some sectors as well.

Third, the Astra AAAU is expected to complement the Israeli MF-STAR radar installed on our destroyers and frigates.

It will be a good mix, which provides greater ability to dominate larger sweeps of ocean more efficiently, and more comprehensively, with multiple, integrated layers of both offence and defence.

Fourth, this new radar will exponentially bolster our ballistic missile defence systems. We must also bear in mind that the next class of warships will be much larger, for the simple reason that their deckhouses will have to be expanded to accommodate a 6-meter-wide antenna.

This also means that such vessels would be able to carry larger, more advanced missiles in greater numbers, providing that much more dominance.

Fifth, the fact that this new radar was built by Astra Microwave shows that active efforts at indigenization are paying off.

Public-private partnership, a cornerstone of the Indian government’s Atmanirbharta policy is working, and well on its way to achieving critical mass.

In conclusion, and at long last, India is no longer building to catch up, but for the future. And this new radar, when commissioned, will aid our forces in living up to the motto of the INS Kolkata‘Yudhay Sarvasannadh’, or, ‘Always Prepared for Battle’.
 

Gessler

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@Gessler what are your thoughts on this if any?


On 31 July, a Hyderabad-based company named Astra Microwave Products Pvt. Ltd. issued its annual report. Buried in dry text, under the heading “Major projects due for delivery during the year 2023-24”, was an innocuous line item: “6 Mtrs S-Band AAAU for strategic Naval application of DRDO”.

Hardly anyone has read the report, and most of those who did would have glossed over the arcane acronym, but the news was enough for our ever-alert Defence Twitter to explode in ecstatic frenzy.
As is the wont of this curious breed, social media was soon filled with an array of
befuddling acronyms: LR-MFR, BMD, LRSAM, IFEP, SBR, and more.

To fully understand the reasons behind such heady jubilation, we must travel back in time to 16 August 2014, and the commissioning of the INS Kolkata, our first Kolkata-class stealth guided-missile destroyer.

That is when Prime Minister Narendra Modi made, what is probably, his first strategy speech. Standing on the decks of a truly fearsome warship, which bristles with racks of the near-unstoppable Brahmos supersonic cruise missile, he said that military prowess was the biggest deterrent to war.

The symbolism was unmissable even to the blind. Yet, as lethal as the Brahmos is, the warship’s greatest strength is actually the cutting-edge Israeli radar it carries – the EL/M-2248 MF-STAR, since such vessels are only as good as the sensors they have.

The ability to sail upon distant blue waters, to land a punch with a Brahmos, is possible only if a warship is protected by a radar which can detect inbound threats in advance.

And this Israeli radar is so good that the Indian Navy standardized it for succeeding classes of warships as well: the follow-on Vishakhapatnam-class destroyers, and the Nilgiri-class frigates presently under construction and commissioning.

The Israeli radar has four antennae covering all four quadrants. Each antenna is three meters by three meters wide, and can detect multiple targets approaching in multiple profiles from multiple directions – be they fighter aircraft at high altitudes, or low-flying missiles which skim the sea.

This is important, and necessary, since the role of destroyers and frigates is not just to fire offensive weapons like the Brahmos, but to defend a fleet – especially aircraft carriers. Essentially, force projection is a function of protection offered by such radars.

Above this is a broader function of theatre-level ballistic missile defence. This concept was pioneered some decades ago by the American Navy and has become a stock-in-trade feature of large navies today, with the ability of detect, track, and destroy such threats improving in step with advances in radar technology.

The Americans are developing a new radar for their Arleigh Burke-class destroyers. Called the AN/SPY-6, and sized at 4.3 meters, it is larger than the Israeli radar. While requisite details are not available, this new radar is expected to offer significantly enhanced capabilities, to both detect threats earlier, and to counter saturation attacks (multiple missiles launched simultaneously at a target).

Similarly, the antenna of the Chinese Type 346B radar (called the ‘Star of the Sea’) being installed on their latest Type 055 destroyers is 4 meters in diameter.

Putting it all together at sea is a lot more complicated than setting up such systems on land, because diverse components, all large and heavy, have to fit onto a single ship. But once done, these radars, integrated with offensive and defensive missile systems, allow navies to dominate vast swathes of ocean in an elegant, efficient manner.

That is why the Israeli radar on board the Kolkata is called an MF-STAR: a Multi-Function Surveillance, Track And Guidance Radar.

A hypothetical war scenario puts these functions in perspective: The Indian Navy’s Western Naval Command is tasked to conduct an amphibious assault on the Makaran Coast of Baluchistan, using the Indian Army’s premier amphibious force – 91 Brigade (The Amphibians) based at Trivandrum in Kerala.

To succeed, the INS Kolkata and her sisters would have to simultaneously ward off fighter jets launched from Pasni Air Base, plus a clutch of missiles including the ballistic Shaheens and Ghauris, and cruise missiles like the Babur and the Exocet, while locating key targets to guide their own Brahmos missiles towards.

Astra Microwave’s new radar is a major step forward in this challenging domain.

With a diameter of 6 meters, it is a whopper!

Even the Americans, whose strategic planners have been screaming for a 6-meter antenna for years, have been restricted to a 4.3-meter radar because that is all the deckhouse of an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer can accommodate.

In technical terms, this radar is called an AAAU – an Active Antenna Array Unit.

Very little information is available about it in the public domain (and rightly so), but we do know that it has been installed on the Indian Navy’s secretive testbed, the INS Anvesh (which was commissioned into the Navy in a low-key ceremony early last year).

The technology was originally developed by India’s Defence Research Development Organization, the venerable DRDO, as the core of its AAAU programme for the Indian Air Force. Its functions span the spectrum of electronic warfare, and, very importantly, electronic countermeasures as well.

An antenna diameter of 6 meters means a surface area of 36 meters. Pertinently, that makes this radar four times larger than the Israeli one currently installed on our frigates and destroyers.

The implications are stupendous, since the larger the surface area of an antenna, the more the number of transceivers can be installed on it; and the more such nodes an antenna has, the more powerful the radar becomes.

So, what are the implications of this landmark moment?

First, it is now obvious that the India is developing an extremely advanced radar for a new class of warships.

We don’t yet know what those surface vessels are, but readers may bear in mind that the two primary ongoing naval construction programmes, for the Vishakhapatnam-class destroyers and the Nilgiri-class frigates, will be completed in the period of 2024-2026.

There are unconfirmed rumours of a new class, dubbed the ‘Next Generation Vessel’, or ‘Project 18’.

These warships, to be built entirely in India, are expected to be far more potent than anything the Indian Navy currently possesses (or other large navies, for that matter), but frankly, without official confirmation, the bottom line is that we simply don’t know.

All we know for sure is that the docks at Mazagon, Kochi and Kolkata, will not be left to quietly gather moss once the current programmes are completed.

Second, a 6-meter antenna is one more bit of evidence to show that India’s defence industry is not just catching up with the rest of the world, but slowly, very slow, moving ahead in some sectors as well.

Third, the Astra AAAU is expected to complement the Israeli MF-STAR radar installed on our destroyers and frigates.

It will be a good mix, which provides greater ability to dominate larger sweeps of ocean more efficiently, and more comprehensively, with multiple, integrated layers of both offence and defence.

Fourth, this new radar will exponentially bolster our ballistic missile defence systems. We must also bear in mind that the next class of warships will be much larger, for the simple reason that their deckhouses will have to be expanded to accommodate a 6-meter-wide antenna.

This also means that such vessels would be able to carry larger, more advanced missiles in greater numbers, providing that much more dominance.

Fifth, the fact that this new radar was built by Astra Microwave shows that active efforts at indigenization are paying off.

Public-private partnership, a cornerstone of the Indian government’s Atmanirbharta policy is working, and well on its way to achieving critical mass.

In conclusion, and at long last, India is no longer building to catch up, but for the future. And this new radar, when commissioned, will aid our forces in living up to the motto of the INS Kolkata‘Yudhay Sarvasannadh’, or, ‘Always Prepared for Battle’.

Nothing here that defence enthusiasts didn't already know - but I'm glad 'mainstream' newsmedia is picking up these stories in significant detail.

I have long maintained that there is an intrinsic link between the LRMFR (the 6-mtr AAAU being talked about here) and the IAF's HPR program. If the LRMFR is to considered an analogue of the AEGIS radar, then the HPR is the equivalent of AEGIS Ashore i.e. the ground-based version.
 

Afif

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While the new radar seems very good, Nobody is shooting Ballistic missiles at India from either side of the Indian Ocean.
Maybe it will have better application with land based ABM system(?)
 
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While the new radar seems very good, Nobody is shooting Ballistic missiles at India from either side of the Indian Ocean.
Maybe it will have better application with land based ABM system(?)
With such specs, the numbers of applications seem limitless (if there’s such a thing at defense industry)
 

Gessler

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While the new radar seems very good, Nobody is shooting Ballistic missiles at India from either side of the Indian Ocean.
Maybe it will have better application with land based ABM system(?)

The biggest application of this technology (which is all developed as part of BMD Phase-II) is indeed ground based. There are 12 new HPR radars coming up in the first tranche itself, it's likely there will be more. And they only add to the radars already deployed under Phase-I.

As of the naval application, it's not just about defending India from ballistic threats coming over the ocean, the primary role of the NGD class is likely to be about defending the Navy's Carrier Groups from all manner of threats - including ballistic, cruise or HGV. All of which are likely to be employed by the PLAN, and at least some by Pakistan.

There are two components: Payloads & Platforms. The current set of Payloads in service (Barak-8) or in development (AD-1 & AD-2) are only sufficient to reliably address some of those threats. There will be other payloads to emerge in the future, to include DEWs. But to do all that, it's important to have a good Platform in hand that can reliably scan & track these threats in order to cue the Payloads onto them.

That's where the new Sensor comes in.
 

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The biggest application of this technology (which is all developed as part of BMD Phase-II) is indeed ground based. There are 12 new HPR radars coming up in the first tranche itself, it's likely there will be more. And they only add to the radars already deployed under Phase-I.

As of the naval application, it's not just about defending India from ballistic threats coming over the ocean, the primary role of the NGD class is likely to be about defending the Navy's Carrier Groups from all manner of threats - including ballistic, cruise or HGV. All of which are likely to be employed by the PLAN, and at least some by Pakistan.

There are two components: Payloads & Platforms. The current set of Payloads in service (Barak-8) or in development (AD-1 & AD-2) are only sufficient to reliably address some of those threats. There will be other payloads to emerge in the future, to include DEWs. But to do all that, it's important to have a good Platform in hand that can reliably scan & track these threats in order to cue the Payloads onto them.

That's where the new Sensor comes in.
@Gessler , @Nilgiri

I’ll try to connect the dots here, so bear with me please.

There is a rumor of a “Project - 18” and also news of this new wide/huge radar that is about to enter service around early 2024.
The radar‘s naval variant will require a substantial space on a mast. And Indian navy needs to perform independent fleet operations over the ocean(s) therefore require it for “defending the Navy's Carrier Groups from all manner of threats - including ballistic, cruise or HGV.”

What I wonder is what kind of a class it would be and what kind of role that hull would execute.
Will it be perhaps a kind of medium size EW ship to execUte the ‘electronic watchdog’ role of the fleet (like a picket destroyer of WW2, in a vague resemblance) or will it be a heavy, huge size legit destroyer?
 

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@Gessler , @Nilgiri

I’ll try to connect the dots here, so bear with me please.

There is a rumor of a “Project - 18” and also news of this new wide/huge radar that is about to enter service around early 2024.
The radar‘s naval variant will require a substantial space on a mast. And Indian navy needs to perform independent fleet operations over the ocean(s) therefore require it for “defending the Navy's Carrier Groups from all manner of threats - including ballistic, cruise or HGV.”

What I wonder is what kind of a class it would be and what kind of role that hull would execute.
Will it be perhaps a kind of medium size EW ship to execUte the ‘electronic watchdog’ role of the fleet (like a picket destroyer of WW2, in a vague resemblance) or will it be a heavy, huge size legit destroyer?


I know you didn't asked me but yesterday @Gessler posted this.
Big updates on the surface combatant front:


Earlier, plan was for 5 ships of the NGD class. Then, it seems it was increased to 6. The latest updates (source from a MDL investors' conference call) put the requirement at 8 ships of the class! This program, now estimated to be worth Rs. 80,000 crore or roughly $10 billion will see the ships delivered in two batches of 4 ships each.

Also, we now have confirmation regarding the numbers & estimated cost of the Project-17B program (Nilgiri-class follow through). This program will also see construction of 8 vessels costing roughly $7.5 billion. That means the Indian Navy will get a total of 15 frigates of this family (7 Nilgiri & 8 Nilgiri-Upgrade).

@Nilgiri @Anmdt
 

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You are welcome.
If I am not mistaken, NGD is rumoured as project 18. (Not official designation)
 

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@Gessler , @Nilgiri

I’ll try to connect the dots here, so bear with me please.

There is a rumor of a “Project - 18” and also news of this new wide/huge radar that is about to enter service around early 2024.
The radar‘s naval variant will require a substantial space on a mast. And Indian navy needs to perform independent fleet operations over the ocean(s) therefore require it for “defending the Navy's Carrier Groups from all manner of threats - including ballistic, cruise or HGV.”

What I wonder is what kind of a class it would be and what kind of role that hull would execute.
Will it be perhaps a kind of medium size EW ship to execUte the ‘electronic watchdog’ role of the fleet (like a picket destroyer of WW2, in a vague resemblance) or will it be a heavy, huge size legit destroyer?

In addition to the link in my previous post (which @Afif showed), I'd suggest you go through this older post of mine as well to get a better understanding of how NGD seems to be shaping up:


In short, it's going to be a AAW (including BMD)-focused proper destroyer displacing somewhere between 10k and 15k tons. This is indicated further by the omission of large VLS (intended for BrahMos-sized missiles). In the future, ASW & ASuW is likely to be a role fulfilled by Frigates, not Destroyers. So it's possible that the NGF (Next Gen Frigate; another program indicated by observing shipyard official communications over the last few years) could instead go all-in on strike-length VLS cells, possibly 16-24, not unlike what's on UK's City-class.

So to sum it up, this is how the roles are likely to be for the future Indian Navy:

DDG: Anti-air, BMD, CMD, C&C, Land-attack
FFG: ASW, ASuW

This would also explain why there is no direct successor planned for the Project-28 Kamorta-class ocean-going ASW corvette. Earlier, both DDG & FFG used to do a little bit of everything "multi-role" so to speak, which necessitated the building of a dedicated ASW vessel that could accompany Carrier Groups. But now the roles are being clearly defined & divided...so the need for a separate ASW combatant has disappeared.
 

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In addition to the link in my previous post (which @Afif showed), I'd suggest you go through this older post of mine as well to get a better understanding of how NGD seems to be shaping up:


In short, it's going to be a AAW (including BMD)-focused proper destroyer displacing somewhere between 10k and 15k tons. This is indicated further by the omission of large VLS (intended for BrahMos-sized missiles). In the future, ASW & ASuW is likely to be a role fulfilled by Frigates, not Destroyers. So it's possible that the NGF (Next Gen Frigate; another program indicated by observing shipyard official communications over the last few years) could instead go all-in on strike-length VLS cells, possibly 16-24, not unlike what's on UK's City-class.

So to sum it up, this is how the roles are likely to be for the future Indian Navy:

DDG: Anti-air, BMD, CMD, C&C, Land-attack
FFG: ASW, ASuW

This would also explain why there is no direct successor planned for the Project-28 Kamorta-class ocean-going ASW corvette. Earlier, both DDG & FFG used to do a little bit of everything "multi-role" so to speak, which necessitated the building of a dedicated ASW vessel that could accompany Carrier Groups. But now the roles are being clearly defined & divided...so the need for a separate ASW combatant has disappeared.
Thank you
 

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Do we know if this good news is with the TAIS ToT MOU agreement intact for HSL's design? If so thats a big development from what I last posted in Turkish defence export thread (i.e some kind of stasis) that @Ripley got disappointed about.

I guess let us see what details come out soon. If TAIS ToT is part of it, things can be revisited nicely in that thread. :)

@Gessler @TR_123456 @Anmdt et al.
 

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Do we know if this good news is with the TAIS ToT MOU agreement intact for HSL's design? If so thats a big development from what I last posted in Turkish defence export thread (i.e some kind of stasis) that @Ripley got disappointed about.

I guess let us see what details come out soon. If TAIS ToT is part of it, things can be revisited nicely in that thread. :)

@Gessler @TR_123456 @Anmdt et al.
It says indigenous in the article.
Btw,check your alerts.
 

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It says indigenous in the article.
Btw,check your alerts.

Yah but they always said it is to be built indigenously (i.e at HSL).

The ToT still needed by HSL from somewhere for this project, is why they did the bidding earlier that TAIS progressed on.
 

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Yah but they always said it is to be built indigenously (i.e at HSL).

The ToT still needed by HSL from somewhere for this project, is why they did the bidding earlier that TAIS progressed on.
TAIS member Anadolu Shipyard was seeking for a project manager-supervisor to be settled in India.They have got one, so it should be from Anadolu Shipyard.
 

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20230825_165009.jpg
 

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