Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[wekiweko]

As it is, Indonesia is not that compelling to USA. If suddenly our govt official start to scream "Ganyang RRC" like what happened post 65 and decided to join the quad and manage to silence all opposition to such plan, I think that will be the time when USA will start to consider elevating our status as an upper tier allies just like the aussies, and with it the opportunity to acquire higher end weaponries. Although at the end of the day if we are still maintaining sales and cuan driven acquisition plans, those weaponries will look good only during parade wkwkwkwk

 

[Parry Brima]

As it is, Indonesia is not that compelling to USA. If suddenly our govt official start to scream "Ganyang RRC" like what happened post 65 and decided to join the quad and manage to silence all opposition to such plan, I think that will be the time when USA will start to consider elevating our status as an upper tier allies just like the aussies, and with it the opportunity to acquire higher end weaponries. Although at the end of the day if we are still maintaining sales and cuan driven acquisition plans, those weaponries will look good only during parade wkwkwkwk

Agree, they basically don't rate us and we're not an attractive option for them. That's why I said their approach to build maritime center in Batam is more intriguing than any fighter deal. It kinda gives us signal that they want something there in the sea from us (or Bakamla). Perhaps we should "tempel terus" this one and forget about fighter a bit

 

[Ravager]

Just like i said before, if the US don't want to sell us F-35 and F-15Ex, we better go for Rafale all the way, just add those Rafale contract from 36 to 64 unit, and concentrate on KF-21 Boromae development so we can purchased it before 2028 to replace our aging F-16

Even if KF 21 works are running flawlessly and within schedule ( which i doubted it so ) we are still beholden by some stuff of the LM/US state entity .

Keeping the tie doesn't always mean buying new fighters. We plan to buy their Osprey, Black Hawk, C-130J, UAVs, etc. Plus we still operate full two squadrons of F-16 until probably the next 10-15 years. Also the Apaches, etc.

Heck we even cooperate with the US to build the new strategic maritime center in Batam for Bakamla. For me this is more intriguing than fighter. Really hope we have something more for Bakamla from the US.

It's a trial phase " reyen " moment for more of our involvement in the SCS ... Everything was still in the open . Never count your chicken before the eggs hatches .

We are not gonna cut ties with the US, if the US wanted us to purchases some of their goodies there are plenties US toys that we can buy, like C-130 J and E-7a Wedgetail.
And if I am not mistaken, those KF-21 Boromae have two separate production line, one in South Korea and one in Bandung right...so getting it the same time with ROKAF is not impossible

While the Korean are very sure about their steps we are surely aren't . Tell me some more when we are starting to pay the bills .

Agree, they basically don't rate us and we're not an attractive option for them. That's why I said their approach to build maritime center in Batam is more intriguing than any fighter deal. It kinda gives us signal that they want something there in the sea from us (or Bakamla). Perhaps we should "tempel terus" this one and forget about fighter a bit

Everything has to start from something . Selama janur kuning blm berkibar semua bisa menikung .....

 

[schuimpjes]

That's why I said their approach to build maritime center in Batam is more intriguing than any fighter deal. It kinda gives us signal that they want something there in the sea from us (or Bakamla).

This is not the first time US help our training extensively. POLRI (Then AK (Angkatan Kepolisian) get US assistance in Megamendung at early 2000s, post 2002 Bali Bombing and at early history of NRI.

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409410431538450434

 

[Umigami]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409389365273325580

 

[trishna_amrta]

the media you quote writen by same person who watch for kantin kemenhan himself, I'm sure he know what he is talking about

All the more reason for loss of credibility
You know it will "bermain elegant" IF... IF... AH will just joint us here in our discussion here rather than lurking in the dark corner and hoping to get traffic (thus $) to his tweet by making sensationalist tweet

cut the sarcasm pls, i base my argument on alman's writing while ago through his semar sentinel's infographic. he said that we are unlikely to get the full EX version.

F15EX is a whole new platform not merely an upgrade to its electronics. And how come we can only get different version of F15 WHEN the only F15 available is the F15EXUnless you were referring to used F15 then it's a different story. But for new F15 platform, only the F15EX is available, because Boeing only build F15EX (no other variant)

I don't get it

Is it a no for EW offset?

In G2G deal the customer strife for "mid-long term profit" deal. Asking for EW industrial package will be a great loss for considering we do not have the economy of scale (demand) and the industrial capability & capacity to start with (other than "tempel sticker"). It's better for the offset to be in different sector such as palm oil related for example, or any other of our agriculture produce or textile products.

 

[Parry Brima]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409389365273325580

View attachment 24491

There's no way we buy 100 new fighters with total budget $50 billions for all TNI needs. 36 Rafales + 36 F-15EX is probably what we'll get.

 

[Soman45]

https://www.facebook.com/lightningchansugoi/posts/855017515221711

well it's still quite big number....at least 36 rafale and 36 F-15 are not so unreachable anymore

 

[Nilgiri]

Bold 2: not contributing to American jobs opportunity.

Continuing to participate in the USD global system (i.e strongly recognising it as defacto international seignioriage standard, and keeping massive forex reserves of it, and commiting near 100% of external trade/invstment in it) in light of how the US Fed continues to inflate it in last 12 years or so is essentially supporting immense amount of US jobs already.

It is above and beyond what most developing countries can really afford to tbh (IMO)...we just have little to no choice and leverage relatively speaking till you breach high income, high market cap, high development and high proven credibility across the board....given the vast inertia in play since post war bretton wood system and the "Fiat" change of USD due to vietnam war during cold war.

So really a big population developing country like Indonesia shouldn't care much about any job-support argument/pressure brought by US (on any specific industries, given how these things are all corporate networked by USD printing + DC swamp)...it is already contributing heavily (above and beyond a more neutral "fair" capacity to) to it due to the above.

Either the US offers a product (defence or non-defence) competitively (and related geopolitical support competitively if defence) or it doesn't.

If latter, Indonesia should not shy away from exploring more options in multi-polar world today (something DC swamp finally waking up to and will yield space to you onif you play cards well). Indonesia must think strategically as possible.

 

[schuimpjes]

If latter, Indonesia should not shy away from exploring more options in multi-polar world today (something DC swamp finally waking up to and will yield space to you onif you play cards well). Indonesia must think strategically as possible.

Economically, we are depend to PRC. Our biggest export market is PRC, we are also big market for China, lot of Chinese investments here, and we enjoy BRI roads here.

Economically, we are close with China, Security matter, we are even getting closer (again) to the west. Our military was embargoed by the US on early 2000s, but US aid were still goes to the police as part of GWOT.

 

[Nilgiri]

Economically, we are depend to PRC. Our biggest export market is PRC, we are also big market for China, lot of Chinese investments here, and we enjoy BRI roads here.

Economically, we are close with China, Security matter, we are even getting closer (again) to the west. Our military was embargoed by the US on early 2000s, but US aid were still goes to the police as part of GWOT.

Sure, but by using USD as the trade mechanism with whatever largest trade partners you have (incl growing source of own defence threats)....you essentially subsidize a good amount of US jobs in the end already (given we all treat USD now as same "quality" as USD pre-2008...when it really isn't given the inflation dumped into it.)

i.e USD sudden and sustained liquidity influxes from its own govt debt "strategy" (that supports huge amount of its downstream jobs) are just not challenged like it would be for any other country.

Indonesia and other large developing countries should not sell themselves short on their bargaining strength is all I'm saying....and should take their own leverage/cards more seriously. i.e US fully knows (deep down) what is being eroded by its own (govt DC swamp) hand that world continues to prop up (at cost to themselves long term). Large developing countries need to take themselves far more seriously given they have huge potential and consequence in the future for every other country in world.

If US defence interlocutors make any "we need you to support these many more jobs too" as some prerogative in expanding defence partnership (in light of growing shared common threat), or they are too wedded to it as sticking point going forward..... it just means they are not treating you seriously (or seeing what your final core bargaining resilience is).

 

[schuimpjes]

Sure, but by using USD as the trade mechanism with whatever largest trade partners you have (incl growing source of own defence threats)....you essentially subsidize a good amount of US jobs in the end already (given we all treat USD now as same "quality" as USD pre-2008...when it really isn't given the inflation dumped into it.)

We using Renminbi for our bilateral transactions with China next month.

Lepas Dolar, RI-China Transaksi Pakai Rupiah-Yuan Bulan Depan

Bank Indonesia mengatakan RI dan China akan menggunakan skema pembayaran local currency settlement (LCS) mulai kuartal III 2021 atau Juli mendatang.

www.cnnindonesia.com

 

[Nilgiri]

We using Renminbi for our bilateral transactions with China next month.

Will have to see how much % of the total trade it replaces USD with:

LCS Indonesia and China will reduce transaction payments using US dollars as the currency commonly used in international transactions.

 

[schuimpjes]

Will have to see how much % of the total trade

I don't know the percent yet, but consider our trade and cooperation with China, I think that would be a ±quarter of the pie. And also, Chinese will using Rupiah, win-win here.

 

[Parry Brima]

So really a big population developing country like Indonesia shouldn't care much about any job-support argument/pressure brought by US (on any specific industries, given how these things are all corporate networked by USD printing + DC swamp)...it is already contributing heavily (above and beyond a more neutral "fair" capacity to) to it due to the above.

Either the US offers a product (defence or non-defence) competitively (and related geopolitical support competitively if defence) or it doesn't.

If latter, Indonesia should not shy away from exploring more options in multi-polar world today (something DC swamp finally waking up to and will yield space to you onif you play cards well). Indonesia must think strategically as possible.

Agree. It's really sad to see even Indonesian grass roots using that kind of argument to defend the US products procurement.

This shows you that many Indonesians have been poisoned and brainwashed by those sales representatives from advanced countries.

 

[Parry Brima]

Indonesia and other large developing countries should not sell themselves short on their bargaining strength is all I'm saying....and should take their own leverage/cards more seriously. i.e US fully knows (deep down) what is being eroded by its own (govt DC swamp) hand that world continues to prop up (at cost to themselves long term). Large developing countries need to take themselves far more seriously given they have huge potential and consequence in the future for every other country in world.

If US defence interlocutors make any "we need you to support these many more jobs too" as some prerogative in expanding defence partnership (in light of growing shared common threat), or they are too wedded to it as sticking point going forward..... it just means they are not treating you seriously (or seeing what your final core bargaining resilience is).

Top notch! Can't agree more.

It's difficult, it's a matter of mentality. These people still suffer from the "inlander mentality" that the colonialist were infecting us for centuries.

 

[Panca]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409592687238451213

 

[Umigami]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409592687238451213

Give them Radar please!

 

[pasingsingan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409701627880120338

maybe rafale?