Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Kafkaesque]

Pure Typhoon. Upgraded ex-Austrian ones + 48 new units, even more with license. Possible using multi-years contract scheme.

I'll just put this here.

 

[Chestnut]

Exactly how is he going to afford to operate all these fighters? You can't use loans to finance your Air Force's operational cost.

Not to mention the credit line is also still needed to finance the Tankers, MPA, and AWACS programs as well.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Exactly how is he going to afford to operate all these fighters? You can't use loans to finance your Air Force's operational cost.

Simple just add the operating budget

Not to mention the credit line is also still needed to finance the Tankers, MPA, and AWACS programs as well.

Find another supplier who offer financing as well

 

[Chestnut]

Simple just add the operating budget

Easier said than done. CMIIW but the last time the Air Force had a significant budget increase was during the Sukarno era.

Find another supplier who offer financing as well

It would still be very expensive, 1-2 support aircraft (with added equipment and packages) are already as expensive as an entire squadron's worth of fighters.

 

[Umigami]

Pure Typhoon. Upgraded ex-Austrian ones + 48 new units, even more with license. Possible using multi-years contract scheme.

I'll just put this here.

Pure typhoon?
Which tranche we are talking about here?
New or second hand?

 

[Gundala]

just my thoughts.

1. 14th Sqn will operate the Typhoons as pure interceptor
2. The Su-27Sk and 30Mk currently in the 14th Sqn will be returned to its original unit the 11th Sqn
3.F-16 will still be operated by the 3rd and 16th Sqn
4.the 36 Rafale (2 Sqn) will replace the Hawks in the 1st and 12th Sqn.

Don't forget we need to create/move one squadron to the east (NTT/Biak)

and new Sqn in Kupang

The 1st sq will still be placed in Pontianak imo and Rafale is perfectly suited for the roles there. Multirole kinda jet is really needed there that could act as interceptor, ground and sea roles. Far better then F16V if we only look at the platform capability/capacity.

Next one is new sq at Kupang, if we still in line with what Pak Yuyu said then Rafale will be placed there. Im not sure if that would be perfect place for it as the main duty is policing air and sea only. Tho the possible reactivation AFB at Saumlaki for patrol base might warrant the placement to Rafale. I still think F-16 can still do the job well here as the Sukhoi with air tank can reach the intended security area pretty easy as second layer of def.

Anyway putting Rafale in Pontianak really put a smile on my face, that deterrence factor of Rafale there and if somehow we manage to get our hands on P8/EWA will put additional force multiplier. Yummiee

As 14th sq of typhoon.....I dont like it, Rafale can do the job fine as the one in pontianak can always intercept anything that goes to Jakarta. Might as well scrap that typhoon and get the used Rafale....

and here is the range of our potential adversary

And if we really into range capability of Typhoon then by all means drop all rafale for all new/used Typhoon This is simulated Typhoon range

Regardless of range those ex French AF Rafale is more capable to do the job compare to used Typhoon from Austria.

I was going to put Sukhoi range for the discussion purpose but I have put too many pictures in 1 post already. One thing I can tell is those Sukhoi range is really scarry to the neighbor indeed and once we factor in the air tank then all hell break loose . Our Hangar Queen might be one thing but the deterance effect is something our potential adversary need to be aware of.

 

[trishna_amrta]

View attachment 8223

and here is the range of our potential adversary

View attachment 8226

And if we really into range capability of Typhoon then by all means drop all rafale for all new/used Typhoon This is simulated Typhoon range


View attachment 8230
Regardless of range those ex French AF Rafale is more capable to do the job compare to used Typhoon from Austria.

I was going to put Sukhoi range for the discussion purpose but I have put too many pictures in 1 post already. One thing I can tell is those Sukhoi range is really scarry to the neighbor indeed and once we factor in the air tank then all hell break loose . Our Hangar Queen might be one thing but the deterance effect is something our potential adversary need to be aware of.

All those merely showing combat range in UNCONTESTED airspace. Even the combat range of Strike Eagle or Super Bug could end up similar to F-35A in CONTESTED airspace

 

[Madokafc]

It's depend on the Table of Organization and supposed roles and engagement for Air Force future units. If Rafale came and divided into small squadron units of 12 there is lot of area can be covered. But so far, the Air Force had Made renovation and upgrade Air Force base in Sajad (type B) Natuna, El Tari type A , Manuhua (type A) , Silas Papare (type A) and there is still some in Koopsau II who don't have any meaningfull assets like Mulyadi (in Surabaya in which i doubt as Surabaya is quite crowded like Jakarta) and I Gusti Ngurah Rai.

And i think Pontianak can base more type of Aircraft....

 

[Parry Brima]

Exactly how is he going to afford to operate all these fighters? You can't use loans to finance your Air Force's operational cost.

Not to mention the credit line is also still needed to finance the Tankers, MPA, and AWACS programs as well.

Operational cost consist of many stuff. Fuel, maintenance, spare parts, etc. If we use IDR and USD budget separation :

- Fuel : this will be IDR as Pertamina can produce the Jet A1 avtur. We'll have no problem with this.

- Spare parts : this will be USD but we should include this in procurement package. This should be part of logistic package. So this will be covered by loans together with the main assets. Should be no issue with this.

- Maintenance : now this is the one that we should look into. How do they offer this, is it gonna be in-house, or need to send the jets somewhere else, who's gonna be doing the maintenance, etc. This could be USD at first but IDR later. Unless it's Russian stuff

 

[Umigami]

- Fuel : this will be IDR as Pertamina can produce the Jet A1 avtur. We'll have no problem with this.

TNI "nunggak" pertamina pretty bad.

 

[Madokafc]

TNI "nunggak" pertamina pretty bad.

That's bad habit in which persist since Soeharto era

 

[joedhie2k]

Typhoon with strict roles just interceptor can have very low operational cost. They will not flying that much compared to jets doing air patrol. But training will need sims or at abroad.

Same assumption also can be done with sukhois as new sims get online.

 

[R4duga]

hasil pertemuan dengan Plt Menhan AS

dari webinar: Geostrategi Indonesia Dalam Dinamika Keamanan Kawasan
Pembicara: Mayjen TNI Dr. Rer. Pol. Rodon Pedrason, M.A. (Dirjen Strategi Pertahanan Kemhan RI)
Waktu: Selasa, 8 Desember 2020 Pukul 19:00 WIB

https://www.facebook.com/lembagakeris/posts/3224868544288133

edit : a repost , didn't check out the previous page sorry

 

[Aassdimenso]

well now that it seems US fighter out of the game i just hope prabowo will choose 1 type of fighter which is either rafale or typhoon. getting both of them seems just pointless and a waste of money, it's just like you buy both fortuner and pajero which is more or less have the same performance, price, and still in the same class. now if you're rich like gulf countries then no problem if you want to collect some fighters but if you have limited money/budget then it's just a reckless move.

to be honest i was baffled as to why prabowo reject us fighter was he got offended because US won't allow us to get F-35 or perhaps there are other motives as to why he prefers EU jet.

 

[R4duga]

Typhoon with strict roles just interceptor can have very low operational cost. They will not flying that much compared to jets doing air patrol. But training will need sims or at abroad.

Same assumption also can be done with sukhois as new sims get online.

this make sense .

well now that it seems US fighter out of the game i just hope prabowo will choose 1 type of fighter which is either rafale or typhoon. getting both of them seems just pointless and a waste of money, it's just like you buy both fortuner and pajero which is more or less have the same performance, price, and still in the same class. now if you're rich like gulf countries then no problem if you want to collect some fighters but if you have limited money/budget then it's just a reckless move.

to be honest i was baffled as to why prabowo reject us fighter was he got offended because US won't allow us to get F-35 or perhaps there are other motives as to why he prefers EU jet.

typhoon rafale are difference in performance , especially with typhoon higher top speed and service ceiling capability suits that interceptor , the only thing that pointless is if we try to keep some older planes in squadron , i would rather choose to ditch the Hawk for newer plane , sukhoi may took long time to ditch , until our defense administration choose to optimize our fighter fleet (assuming they will go all interceptor to typhoon or all multirole to rafale) .

anyway did russia give us any permission to do upgrades , MRO , of their sukhoi here ?

perhaps the selling point here that caught attention of menhan is the life support plan , eurocanard lobbyist are already trying to convince indonesia to become one of their global supply chain partner since 2015 .

 

[Aassdimenso]

hasil pertemuan dengan Plt Menhan AS

dari webinar: Geostrategi Indonesia Dalam Dinamika Keamanan Kawasan
Pembicara: Mayjen TNI Dr. Rer. Pol. Rodon Pedrason, M.A. (Dirjen Strategi Pertahanan Kemhan RI)
Waktu: Selasa, 8 Desember 2020 Pukul 19:00 WIB

https://www.facebook.com/lembagakeris/posts/3224868544288133

edit : a repost , didn't check out the previous page sorry

still hoping to get F-18 even though the acquisition cost seems to be the same as rafale but the operational cost of F-18 probably little bit cheaper compare to rafale.

*it's an old data so rafale operational cost will probably lower since now more countries using rafale.

 

[R4duga]

View attachment 8238
still hoping to get F-18 even though the acquisition cost seems to be the same as rafale but the operational cost of F-18 probably little bit cheaper compare to rafale.

*it's an old data so rafale operational cost will probably lower since now more countries using rafale.

typhoon too
https://www.flightglobal.com/uk-to-drive-down-typhoon-operating-costs-to-match-f-16/124856.article

 

[joedhie2k]

anyway did russia give us any permission to do upgrades , MRO , of their sukhoi here ?

Russian doesnt allow any mod here. They also charge expensively for MRO. That is why we doing heavy maintenance in 3rd country like Belarussians. This has become pressing issue which makes AU to buy sims.

 

[Aassdimenso]

this make sense .

typhoon rafale are difference in performance , especially with typhoon higher top speed and service ceiling capability suits that interceptor , the only thing that pointless is if we try to keep some older planes in squadron , i would rather choose to ditch the Hawk for newer plane , sukhoi may took long time to ditch , until our defense administration choose to optimize our fighter fleet (assuming they will go all interceptor to typhoon or all multirole to rafale) .

anyway did russia give us any permission to do upgrades , MRO , of their sukhoi here ?

perhaps the selling point here that caught attention of menhan is the life support plan , eurocanard lobbyist are already trying to convince indonesia to become one of their global supply chain partner since 2015 .

as i said before if we are a rich country with the amount of our defence budget allocation are $30 billions then go for it (even though in my opinion it's still just a pointless move). but we are a poor country with limited budget.

and in my opinion the difference in performance between rafale and typhoon is not worth the money, they are still plane in the same class.

just either go full rafale or full typhoon.

 

[Kafkaesque]

Pure typhoon?
Which tranche we are talking about here?
New or second hand?

" Upgraded ex-Austrian ones + 48 new units,"

Tranche one can get a great upgrade, as for the new units, go for tranche 3!

Airbus has delivered the first upgraded Tranche 1 Eurofighter to the Spanish Air Force. The upgrade was carried out at Airbus facilities in Getafe and involved the introduction of hardware modifications which support the Operational Flight Program 02 (OFP-02) developed by the Armament and Experimental Logistics Centre (CLAEX). The upgrade developed by Airbus includes modifications that integrate Tranche 2 and Tranche 3 equipment on the aircraft, not least a Computer Symbol Generator, Digital Video and Voice Recorder, Laser Designator POD and Maintenance Data Panel.

Airbus delivers first upgraded Tranche 1 Eurofighter to Spanish Air Force

Airbus has delivered the first upgraded Tranche 1 Eurofighter to the Spanish Air Force. The upgrade was carried out at Airbus facilities in Getafe and involved the introduction of hardware modifications which support the Operational Flight Program 02 (OFP-02) developed by the Armament and...

www.airbus.com

Probably will cost around 6-7 billions USD, but as I said, use multi-year contract.