Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Lordimperator]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478579894552604673

A330MRTT ,

 

[Umigami]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478579894552604673

Him (maybe): I think we make a mistake...

 

[R4duga]

Him (maybe): I think we make a mistake...

prabowo : "it never was a mistake, we'll get both..."

 

[Umigami]

prabowo : "it never was a mistake, we'll get both..."
View attachment 38024

Never heard of that from anyone

 

[Umigami]

Hmmm... can he even click left or right side of the screen?

 

[Umigami]

Radar deleting technology?
Eeeer... what?

 

[Nilgiri]

The approved foreign loan by FM to finance MRCA acquisition is only 1.1 billion USD for 2020-2024 period. Prabowo has made attempt to increase the figure but so far hasnt been approved by Finance Minister, he then tried to use the available figure of 1.1 billion USD to buy Rafale and according to Alman Helvast ( based on his connection on Finance Ministry-something that is not unusual for former journalist to have such connection) our Finance Minister hasnt approved the allocation of 1.1 billion USD foreign loan to buy just 6 Rafale planes

Just frustrating the time taken for what should be straight-forward decision (given the need) by now.

Cpl squadrons F-16 V for the immediate "now"... and back KFX ecosystem to mature that into 5th+6th gen strategy with time.

Boom, done....lot of plug and play (cost savings + larger sense) to be had with F-16 V.

F-15 EX will have significant staying power (over F-16), so if it makes sense (esp how it can integrate into 5th gen)....then elect for it sure.

Rafale has introduced all kind of confusion to this mix I feel. It will bring extra costs to the infra that needs changing compared to what Indonesia can employ now. So that makes decision making even longer now.

 

[Parry Brima]

Rafale has introduced all kind of confusion to this mix I feel. It will bring extra costs to the infra that needs changing compared to what Indonesia can employ now. So that makes decision making even longer now.

Why Rafale suddenly comes up? It's purely geopolitical reason. Indonesia have experienced the hard lessons from both Russia and US in the past regarding military embargo. It instantly crippled our air force. That's the only reason why we have Falcons and Flankers. We want to have two different "blocs" or some sort as a pair. So if one bloc embargo us, we won't get crippled.

Due to CAATSA, we can't rely on Russia anymore as one of our two blocs pair. That's why we look to Europe to get the replacement for Russia. It's obvious that we want to keep the two blocs pair policy intact, from US-Russia to US-Europe. France has its own admirers in the govt as they proved to give us more leniency during the last US embargo (Timor Leste case). Never mind the fact that they can produce pretty much all of their own components, reducing potential US embargo impact in the future.

 

[Indos]

Why Rafale suddenly comes up? It's purely geopolitical reason. Indonesia have experienced the hard lessons from both Russia and US in the past regarding military embargo. It instantly crippled our air force. That's the only reason why we have Falcons and Flankers. We want to have two different "blocs" or some sort as a pair. So if one bloc embargo us, we won't get crippled.

Due to CAATSA, we can't rely on Russia anymore as one of our two blocs pair. That's why we look to Europe to get the replacement for Russia. It's obvious that we want to keep the two blocs pair policy intact, from US-Russia to US-Europe. France has its own admirers in the govt as they proved to give us more leniency during the last US embargo (Timor Leste case). Never mind the fact that they can produce pretty much all of their own components, reducing potential US embargo impact in the future.

Bro, European Union (EU) also do embargo Indonesia along with American. The potency to get another embargo is in Papuan related event. USA is now so aligned with Indonesia due to competition with China, I doubt USA will impose another embargo to Indonesia in this new geopolitical context, same thing when they close their eyes on Suharto military campaign in East Timor, Aceh, and Papua during the heat of cold war.

EU Not to Renew Arms Embargo on Indonesia | Arms Control Association

www.armscontrol.org

USA only impose embargo into Indonesia when they dont need Indonesia anymore and it is just after USSR collapse in 1990-1991, while competition between USA and China will be very long. This is why we have long spare time to develop our own defense industry during USA and China competition. The save way route is becoming independence and we have time to do that

 

[Umigami]

Bro, European Union (EU) also do embargo Indonesia along with American. The potency to get another embargo is in Papuan related event. USA is now so aligned with Indonesia due to competition with China, I doubt USA will impose another embargo to Indonesia in this new geopolitical context, same thing when they close their eyes on Suharto military campaign in East Timor, Aceh, and Papua during the heat of cold war.

EU Not to Renew Arms Embargo on Indonesia | Arms Control Association

www.armscontrol.org

USA only impose embargo into Indonesia when they dont need Indonesia anymore and it is just after USSR collapse in 1990-1991, while competition between USA and China will be very long. This is why we have long spare time to develop our own defense industry during USA and China competition. The save way route is becoming independence and we have time to do that

I think what he mean is French specifically with its L'autonomie Strategique policy.
French isn't always has the same view as US, NATO, or EU.

This is the example.

 

[Indos]

Just frustrating the time taken for what should be straight-forward decision (given the need) by now.

Cpl squadrons F-16 V for the immediate "now"... and back KFX ecosystem to mature that into 5th+6th gen strategy with time.

Boom, done....lot of plug and play (cost savings + larger sense) to be had with F-16 V.

F-15 EX will have significant staying power (over F-16), so if it makes sense (esp how it can integrate into 5th gen)....then elect for it sure.

Rafale has introduced all kind of confusion to this mix I feel. It will bring extra costs to the infra that needs changing compared to what Indonesia can employ now. So that makes decision making even longer now.

That is true, addition from me

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478955197913174023

 

[Djketoprak]

All of this connected with Rafale procurement???? France who support palm oil trade in Europe

 

[Mandala]

Cheonryong: South Korea’s New Air Launched Cruise Missile​

By ORION_INT in EDITORIAL, MISSILES, SOUTH KOREA
December 2, 2021

September was a month packed full of missile tests for the Koreas, one test flew under the radar for many Korea watchers. This was the drop test of the stealthy South Korean Cheonryong (천룡/Celestial Dragon) Air launched cruise missile (ALCM) for the in-development KF-21 fighter.

This Cheonryong cruise missile developed by the ADD and LIG Nex1 is believed to have been based off of the KEPD-350 Taurus as was reported in 2018. South Korea bought the Taurus missiles for use with their F-15 Slam Eagles when the sale of JASSM missiles was refused. The missiles with their 500km range currently serve a crucial role in South Korea’s air launched strike capability towards North Korea and possibly serve a role in their plan to attack the DPRK’s underground facilities. South Korea is believed to have 170 missiles with 90 more on order.

Air launched cruise missiles are huge assets to any airforce. For the ROKAF they bring Redundancy and might aid ground based assets like ballistic missiles or GLCMs like the Hyunmoo-3.

The drop test for the missile took place from a ROKAF F-4 Phantom fighter with the missile gliding and hitting its target zone. The Phantom with its ability to carry a large payload and its high speed is an ideal platform to test/carry and air launched cruise missiles. It is currently also used by the Turkish Air Force to carry their Sage Tubitak ALCM.

Cheonryong ALCM Dimensions estimate

Comparing the missile to a fuel drop tank carried by the F-4 phantom shows the missile’s length to be 4.64m. The missile is smaller in comparison to the Taurus which is 5.1m long. One possible reason for its smaller size might be to make it easier to mount on the KAI KF-21 Boramae.

KEPD-350 Taurus

The Cheonryong shares some similarities with the Taurus but has considerable differences. This missile is “beveled” on its edges compared to the taurus which is smoother. The Omission of an IR sensor is also notable. The ALCM’s wing configuration seems to be different from the Taurus with its wings being sleeker and longer. Many of these features might be to make it more aerodynamically efficient while also reducing its RCS signature. Although the missile’s range is not yet known it is likely equal or higher to the taurus.

Cheongryong will likely be a significant part of the ROKAFs strike capability in the coming future and is something worth keeping an eye on.

Cheonryong: South Korea's New Air Launched Cruise Missile

In this Piece In this piece Overt Defense explores South Korea's New Air launched Cruise missile, Cheonryong.

www.overtdefense.com

 

[Umigami]

The AESA radar development is without a doubt the most high-profile development program out of the four, and by all accounts, it is said to be going smoothly. According to Republic of Korea Armed Forces’ Facebook page, prototype radar has undergone numerous airborne testings and is said to have performed well. Development of other systems are also said to be going well through indigenous R&D or through cooperation with international partners.

Because these “core technology” are considered extremely sensitive and are intellectual properties of South Korea, any exported systems will be maintained by South Korean engineers. For example, KF-21 exported to Indonesia will have to be overseen by South Korean engineers when radars and other sensitive subsystems need to be maintained.

This is not unique to the KF-21. Most, if not all, major defense manufacturers impose similar requirements to safeguard sensitive technology. Users of the F-15E and F-35 variants cannot freely maintain their aircraft without Boeing or Lockheed Martin engineers, for example.

As the KF-21 Boramae awaits its maiden flight, its AESA Radar Performs well during airborne testings - The Aviation Geek Club

As the KF-21 Boramae awaits its maiden flight, its AESA Radar Performs well during airborne testings

theaviationgeekclub.com

Well, as long as it's not a downgrade version, Right?

 

[chiphocks]

The AESA radar development is without a doubt the most high-profile development program out of the four, and by all accounts, it is said to be going smoothly. According to Republic of Korea Armed Forces’ Facebook page, prototype radar has undergone numerous airborne testings and is said to have performed well. Development of other systems are also said to be going well through indigenous R&D or through cooperation with international partners.

Because these “core technology” are considered extremely sensitive and are intellectual properties of South Korea, any exported systems will be maintained by South Korean engineers. For example, KF-21 exported to Indonesia will have to be overseen by South Korean engineers when radars and other sensitive subsystems need to be maintained.

This is not unique to the KF-21. Most, if not all, major defense manufacturers impose similar requirements to safeguard sensitive technology. Users of the F-15E and F-35 variants cannot freely maintain their aircraft without Boeing or Lockheed Martin engineers, for example.

As the KF-21 Boramae awaits its maiden flight, its AESA Radar Performs well during airborne testings - The Aviation Geek Club

As the KF-21 Boramae awaits its maiden flight, its AESA Radar Performs well during airborne testings

theaviationgeekclub.com

Well, as long as it's not a downgrade version, Right?

Creating a plane without a full right, nice
the way they said "KF-21 exported to Indonesia" make me think that we don't even gonna / have a right to built it by our self
instead, we are gonna purchase it Korea (maybe via PT DI) and then PT DI build some of the parts and Korea gonna assemble, put the system and ext then send it back to Indonesia

or maybe i'm just overthinking / overreact

 

[Indos]

That Korean FB page is not official page, just amateur. You can see Indonesian FB account named "Ahmad" debate with this page admin in previous post about Indonesia engineer contribution and the admin lost. See latest post and he doesnt dare to debate further. No need to put his claim as something coming from KAI.

He uses amateur writer written in a blog without official source to assert his claim that Indonesian engineers just do observing while staying in Korea LOL.

 

[Indos]

The admin doesnt have connection to the engineers or KAI. He just use anything available online when it comes to understand KFX/IFX program, even when the source is not credible like amateur writer posted his writing in a blog.

Be critical as a person, you dont need to believe in any post if the source is not coming from official statement or quote coming from engineer written in mainstream media

 

[Indos]

The fact that 1 prototype will be for Indonesian Aerospace and the company will do many test shows Indonesian engineers have much access on the avionics. Better read this old article to understand more about the program coming from Indonesian program manager on KFX/IFX program.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Create a fighter jet, Indonesia prepares massive resources​

Anggi Kusumadewi, Resty Armenia, Prima Gumilang | CNN Indonesia
Wednesday, 02 Mar 2016 12:39 WIB


Jakarta, CNN Indonesia -- “Warplanes are like cell phones. The technology has changed over the years, whether it's about electronics, sensors or weapons."

Heri Yansyah, Head of the Korea Fighter Xperiment/Indonesia Fighter Xperiment (KF-X/IF-X) program at PT Dirgantara Indonesia, said this while talking to CNNIndonesia.com, Friday (19/2).

“So Indonesia must be able to upgrade this ever-changing technology. If you don't have the ability to upgrade, then buy the same aircraft as neighboring countries, then in two or three years, Indonesia will be defeated," said Heri.

Although comparing fighter planes with mobile phones, to make it far from easy. It took more than 10 years to develop the KF-X/IF-X which was designed to be a 4.5 generation multi-role fighter jet with technology approaching the capabilities of a 5th generation stealth fighter.

Since the jet engine was first developed in 1946, fighter aircraft have evolved to the fifth generation. This latest generation combines stealth technology for undetected radar, supersonic roaming capabilities, and new integrated sensors.

The only 5th generation fighter aircraft currently in service is the US Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor. While a number of other jets from that generation, such as the F-35 Lighting II and the Sukhoi PAK FA, are still at the testing stage.

To make the KF-X/IF-X prototype, Indonesian and South Korean scientists will work hand in hand at the Korea Aerospace Industries headquarters in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province.

"At the peak of prototyping, 200 Indonesian engineers will be involved," said Heri, who in the 2011-2012 period went to South Korea for 18 months to work on the first phase of the KF-X/IF-X project, namely concept development.

The number of Indonesian engineers who went to South Korea in the second phase of work – prototyping – starting in 2016 was far more than the first phase, which only amounted to 52 people.

The Indonesian scientists will come to South Korea gradually over the next 10 years. "There are engineers who have to stay there for a full 10 years, but there are also those who are rotated," said Heri.

Build facilities

Domestically, Indonesia is speeding up the preparation of human resources and technology, starting from research on the core technology of fighter jet engines, materials, avionics, aerodynamics, to building a laboratory to support this research.

In addition, although the production of KF-X/IF-X is centered in South Korea, the headquarters of PT Dirgantara Indonesia in Bandung, West Java, will be no less busy. PTDI will monitor all the work on the fighter aircraft.

PTDI, for example, has prepared the Indonesian Design Center (DCI) to build technology, infrastructure and simulation capabilities. In this place, all stages of work on the KF-X/IF-X in South Korea will be communicated.

DCI is a mirroring of the Design Center building which was also built in Sacheon, South Korea. The Design Center in Sacheon is a kind of sealed and sterile building. People who enter it are prohibited from bringing flash drives and computers. There, Indonesian and South Korean scientists will work together.

Indonesia was also assigned the task of making aircraft components for the right wing and tail, as well as under-wing reinforcement.
See also: Indonesia's Steep Road Makes a Stealth Fighter Plane
Also, Indonesia gets a share to make aircraft prototypes. A total of eight prototypes will be built – six flying prototypes, and two non-flying prototypes for structural testing.

"The fifth prototype will be made here," said Heri. "Why the fifth? Because this is the first time Indonesia has developed a fighter aircraft. For the first and second prototypes, Indonesia is not ready," added the PTDI aerodynamics expert.

Therefore, PTDI has also prepared composing hangar facilities, titanium hangars, production hangars, and final assembly hangars for fighter aircraft.

Read the full CNN Indonesia article "Create a Fighter Jet, Indonesia Prepares Massive Resources" here: https://www.cnnindonesia.com/nasion...4593/buat-jet-tempur-indonesia-prepare-source -massive-power.

Buat Jet Tempur, Indonesia Siapkan Sumber Daya Besar-besaran

Pesawat tempur layaknya ponsel. Dalam setahun, teknologinya berkembang kian canggih. Membuatnya, jauh dari mudah. Infrastruktur dan manusia disiapkan.

www.cnnindonesia.com

----------------------------------------

It is old news, new development shows Indonesia government hasnt completed the investment for production facility and 116 Indonesian engineers were called to Indonesia in May 2020 during the production of the prototype, although the design phase has indeed been completed for single seat KF21 in late 2019. This is why Fifth prototype will be produced in Korea, different from the plan

 

[FPXAllen]

Well, as long as it's not a downgrade version, Right?

As long as we're still unable to develop our own radar and other sensors, we will remain partially tied up.
I have high hopes that with us having the ability to construct the airframe, PT Len or other Indonesian companies can also begin to design and built those things domestically. While it's still feels like a long stretch today, but it's not an unrealistic expectation that in the next ten years or so we'll have our own AESA radar to replace the South Korean ones.

Creating a plane without a full right, nice

*cough* 20% *cough*