Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

schuimpjes

Experienced member
Messages
2,287
Reactions
3 1,431
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Madiun in which already held excellent support facilities to support their operational needs.
Last time Madiun (actually administratively Magetan) had big aircrafts was Tu-16 and that was long time ago, CMIIW

Don’t forget Malang with its KC-130
 

FPXAllen

Contributor
Indonesia Correspondent
Messages
1,091
Reactions
4 1,638
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
This requires significantly reducing dependence on long, smooth runways and elaborate support measures that require vast stores of readily available spare parts and large numbers of personnel.
This part that you quoted really caught my interest. It took me back to when NATO was still preparing for a showdown with the Soviet Union in Western Europe.

The main purpose of British-made Harriers is just like that: reducing dependence on runways and dispersing operations from locations that are easy to conceal.

I imagined back then that if we buy the Harrier, we could utilize our various terrains for similar purposes.
 

Parry Brima

Contributor
Messages
982
Reactions
1 1,057
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Interesting article regarding Boeing AEWC from Sokor.

"While many reports on the new AEW&C requirement have suggested that Seoul will simply order two more E-737s, there have been a number of domestic reports detailing disappointment with the Boeing aircraft.

In October 2019, the South Korean daily newspaper MunhwaIlbo reported on a South Korean Air Force document that had been submitted to the Korean parliamentary National Defense Committee. It cited “frequent failures” in the period from 2015 to September 2019 that meant the E-737s had failed to meet a targeted availability rate of 75%.

This lack of airframes reportedly exposed gaps in South Korea’s air defense coverage network due to aircraft being unavailable to maintain constant patrols. This is of particular concern because the E-737 is considered to be one of South Korea’s primary indigenous means of monitoring North Korean missile activity. The aircraft is also key for detecting low-flying targets and those will small radar signatures, which are a big threat to South Korea.

With the announcement of a budget and a timeline, AEW&C II is now very much a live program. Korea will next decide whether to go with a straight Foreign Military Sale (FMS) deal for two more Peace Eye E-737s or launch a competitive tender."

source : https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...h-for-new-airborne-early-warning-radar-planes
 

Madokafc

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
5,905
Reactions
4 10,027
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
In the past Indonesian Air Force even already looking for Netra system and request demonstration capability, India even Made gesture to provide the system for Indonesia by granting loans and provided the third platform they has at the time for Indonesia if the deal signed

but at the time Indonesian has afk MoD....


 

Umigami

Experienced member
Moderator
Indonesia Moderator
Messages
6,058
Reactions
5 4,888
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Interesting article regarding Boeing AEWC from Sokor.

"While many reports on the new AEW&C requirement have suggested that Seoul will simply order two more E-737s, there have been a number of domestic reports detailing disappointment with the Boeing aircraft.

In October 2019, the South Korean daily newspaper MunhwaIlbo reported on a South Korean Air Force document that had been submitted to the Korean parliamentary National Defense Committee. It cited “frequent failures” in the period from 2015 to September 2019 that meant the E-737s had failed to meet a targeted availability rate of 75%.

This lack of airframes reportedly exposed gaps in South Korea’s air defense coverage network due to aircraft being unavailable to maintain constant patrols. This is of particular concern because the E-737 is considered to be one of South Korea’s primary indigenous means of monitoring North Korean missile activity. The aircraft is also key for detecting low-flying targets and those will small radar signatures, which are a big threat to South Korea.

With the announcement of a budget and a timeline, AEW&C II is now very much a live program. Korea will next decide whether to go with a straight Foreign Military Sale (FMS) deal for two more Peace Eye E-737s or launch a competitive tender."

source : https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...h-for-new-airborne-early-warning-radar-planes
They are talking about hot area that is korean peninsula here.
 

Gary

Experienced member
Messages
8,124
Reactions
21 12,659
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
This part that you quoted really caught my interest. It took me back to when NATO was still preparing for a showdown with the Soviet Union in Western Europe.

The main purpose of British-made Harriers is just like that: reducing dependence on runways and dispersing operations from locations that are easy to conceal.

I imagined back then that if we buy the Harrier, we could utilize our various terrains for similar purposes.
Think about it, every country that is in conflict/in the face of danger put a heavy emphasis on dispersal. Sweden, Taiwan, Pakistan to name a few. Just look at how the JAS-39 Gripen are designed, or the annual Han Kuang exercise in Taiwan.

Whatever upgrade Indonesia invest on its air defense will likely collapse in the wave of overwhelming enemy attack, we could not wish (due to monetary and geographical constraints) to rival the dense air defense of Baghdad in 1991 to protect all our critical infra.

Talking about agile deployment, the E-2s are equipped with tailhook as standard. We on the other hand operate the BAK-12 mobile arresting wire. It would be a huge advantage for the E-2 to lets say fly from one base and to land in the many airstrips in the archipelago, thereby adding the complexity in which the enemy could attack those assets while in land.

IMG_3614.jpg


No other AEW&C system could give these advantage, but I'm open for correction.

Off course in the long run, air force should seek a more capable and proper AEW&C, we should look at Japan with their high-lo mixed fleet of E-767 and E-2C/D. But for the moment I think more airframe are needed rather than ultra expensive high spec specimen which we could buy in limited numbers.
 

Madokafc

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
5,905
Reactions
4 10,027
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Once again


Centralized units for better logistic, maintenance, simplify command, more faster execution of mission, less red tape.
 

Soman45

Well-known member
Messages
327
Reactions
627
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
When was the last time our AF fired AAM? is there any AAM firing exercise after year 2000? because i'm curious CMIIW the last time we fired live AAM are in 80's with sidewinder from F-5?
 
Last edited:

Umigami

Experienced member
Moderator
Indonesia Moderator
Messages
6,058
Reactions
5 4,888
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
When was the last time our AF fired AAM missile? is there any AAM firing exercise after year 2000? because i'm curious CMIIW the last time we fired live AAM are in 80's with sidewinder from F-5?
I think there was Sidewinder firing exercise from F16 not too long ago.
 

Soman45

Well-known member
Messages
327
Reactions
627
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
1669091944083.png

wew the installment period, it's like big infrastructure project or something and USG and Boeing agreed to this? applause for our MoD👏
I think there was Sidewinder firing exercise from F16 not too long ago.
Is there any link?
 

Parry Brima

Contributor
Messages
982
Reactions
1 1,057
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
View attachment 50670
wew the installment period, it's like big infrastructure project or something and USG and Boeing agreed to this? applause for our MoD👏

Is there any link?

25 years?

Assuming the interest rate is 8% flat, 25 years installment, with zero down payment:
- $0.84 bil per year, if it cost $9 bil
- $1.3 bil per year, if it cost $14 bil

If there's 30% down payment :
- $0.55 bil per year, it it cost $9 bil (DP $3 bil)
- $0.86 bil per year, if it cost $14 bil (DP $4.7 bil)

Roughly.
 

FPXAllen

Contributor
Indonesia Correspondent
Messages
1,091
Reactions
4 1,638
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
it's like big infrastructure project or something
It's called "defense investment". But truly, we're so used to seeing our military - in this case, our air force - grossly understrength and underfunded to guard a nation this vast for decades that we became so awestruck whenever things like this happened.
and USG and Boeing agreed to this? applause for our MoD👏
They know that we can't afford the purchase if it's according to their term, but they also can't afford to just give a huge discount for it - politically speaking. I'd like to imagine that Boeing was being pressed by the US Govt to accept our term, and they reluctantly did.

Still, I wonder whether this deal will also include 'generous' offsets and ToT other than the basic stuff.
 

chiphocks

Committed member
Messages
217
Reactions
70
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Think about it, every country that is in conflict/in the face of danger put a heavy emphasis on dispersal. Sweden, Taiwan, Pakistan to name a few. Just look at how the JAS-39 Gripen are designed, or the annual Han Kuang exercise in Taiwan.

Whatever upgrade Indonesia invest on its air defense will likely collapse in the wave of overwhelming enemy attack, we could not wish (due to monetary and geographical constraints) to rival the dense air defense of Baghdad in 1991 to protect all our critical infra.

Talking about agile deployment, the E-2s are equipped with tailhook as standard. We on the other hand operate the BAK-12 mobile arresting wire. It would be a huge advantage for the E-2 to lets say fly from one base and to land in the many airstrips in the archipelago, thereby adding the complexity in which the enemy could attack those assets while in land.

IMG_3614.jpg


No other AEW&C system could give these advantage, but I'm open for correction.

Off course in the long run, air force should seek a more capable and proper AEW&C, we should look at Japan with their high-lo mixed fleet of E-767 and E-2C/D. But for the moment I think more airframe are needed rather than ultra expensive high spec specimen which we could buy in limited numbers.
CN-295 AEW&C, C-295 with advanced hawkeye avionic & sensors instead of the original EL/W-2090

TNI already have those CN295 transport right?
simplify all those logistics issue and stuff, plus it'll meet that High-Low mixed with a little bit of wet dream of E-7 Wedgetail's
 

Gary

Experienced member
Messages
8,124
Reactions
21 12,659
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
TNI already have those CN295 transport right?
simplify all those logistics issue and stuff, plus it'll meet that High-Low mixed with a little bit of wet dream of E-7 Wedgetail's
Hmmm let's see what MoD chooses in the end.

An all airbus fleet sounds nice tho, Airbus C-295 AEW&C + Airbus 330 AEW&C with larger TR array + A330 MRTT to support more time on station. But I'm not betting on this.

For C-295, DI has also an agreement to manufacture certain parts of the aircraft such as tails, flaps and rear fuselage.

4.png


But I'm still confident that the E-2D is still the best choice at the moment especially if its true that we got 7 airframe for the same number we got 2 on a Wedgetail. The advantage is massive tbh.
 

chiphocks

Committed member
Messages
217
Reactions
70
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Hmmm let's see what MoD chooses in the end.

An all airbus fleet sounds nice tho, Airbus C-295 AEW&C + Airbus 330 AEW&C with larger TR array + A330 MRTT to support more time on station. But I'm not betting on this.

For C-295, DI has also an agreement to manufacture certain parts of the aircraft such as tails, flaps and rear fuselage.

4.png


But I'm still confident that the E-2D is still the best choice at the moment especially if its true that we got 7 airframe for the same number we got 2 on a Wedgetail. The advantage is massive tbh.
but what kind of radar that can be used?? is there any AESA radar bigger than what currently Wedgetail use?

and also by reconfiguring the aircraft to use advanced Wedgetail hardware's, PT DI and/or CASA have to redesign some parts or airframe that need to be modified right??
more project for PT DI and maybe more parts for PT DI to build per plane...
 
Last edited:

chiphocks

Committed member
Messages
217
Reactions
70
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
15 spare engines (F110-GE-129 or F100-PW), 9 spare AN/APG-82(v)1 radars, 9 spare AN/AL-250 warning systems, 12 spare ADCPII computers, 80 JHMCS helmet sights, 40 AN /AAQ-13LANTRIN and AN/AAQ-33 sniper observation and targeting pod, rail LAU-128 (156), 4 spare M61 Vulcan guns, MS-110 reconnaissance pod, and training and logistics package


is this good or bad?

 

FoodSoldier

Active member
Messages
67
Reactions
93
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
25 years?

Assuming the interest rate is 8% flat, 25 years installment, with zero down payment:
- $0.84 bil per year, if it cost $9 bil
- $1.3 bil per year, if it cost $14 bil

If there's 30% down payment :
- $0.55 bil per year, it it cost $9 bil (DP $3 bil)
- $0.86 bil per year, if it cost $14 bil (DP $4.7 bil)

Roughly.
The beauty of this arrangemet is: it will be paid annually using MoD annual budget for the next 25 years.

Fiscal friendly 👍
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom