Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Windchime]

From what I recall, undisclosed DAPA official has informed that further negotiations are going well after last year's deal, though the credibility of such claim is still to be questioned.

I'd say, right now medias are stirring too much shit up. There are only two things on the table: payment is delayed, no prototype without the payment.

The second part is obvious. Such clause would have already existed ever since the contract was signed in 2014 and 15. It's only logical that if you don't pay for your goods, you don't get them.

The first part is a bit more tricky, though from what we already know, last year's deal included a new clause which specified, that part of the Indonesian payment would be done in barter. The problem is, how exactly that barter would be set up was (and probably is) still to be decided.

Now, since February, global commodity market has been a hot mess. I don't think this would not have had an impact on the ongoing negotiation. Logically, without new and concrete terms of the payment, you can't pay. Well, to be precise, Indonesians could still pay the non-barter part in dollars, but I wouldn't be surprised if bureaucracy or legal problems are stopping that from happening.

And that's my part of speculation. Obviously we don't know anything apart from what's told.

 

[Zinan 二]

Jakarta cancels and scales back major defence contracts as raw materials crisis deepens.

The ministry of defence has embarked on an ambitious defence acquisition programme but is struggling to find the funding to honour the contracts it has signed. Airbus, which was set to deliver two A400M by the end of 2021, is the latest company to bear the brunt of this situation. Other deals could also be affected over the coming months as the price of raw materials soars.

INDONESIA : Jakarta cancels and scales back major defence contracts as raw materials crisis deepens - 12/07/2022 - Intelligence Online

The ministry of defence has embarked on an ambitious defence acquisition programme but is struggling to find the funding to honour the contracts it has signed. Airbus, which was set to deliver two - 7/12/2022

www.intelligenceonline.com

 

[Umigami]

Jakarta cancels and scales back major defence contracts as raw materials crisis deepens.

The ministry of defence has embarked on an ambitious defence acquisition programme but is struggling to find the funding to honour the contracts it has signed. Airbus, which was set to deliver two A400M by the end of 2021, is the latest company to bear the brunt of this situation. Other deals could also be affected over the coming months as the price of raw materials soars.

INDONESIA : Jakarta cancels and scales back major defence contracts as raw materials crisis deepens - 12/07/2022 - Intelligence Online

The ministry of defence has embarked on an ambitious defence acquisition programme but is struggling to find the funding to honour the contracts it has signed. Airbus, which was set to deliver two - 7/12/2022

www.intelligenceonline.com

Which are being scales back and canceled?

 

[Zinan 二]

A400M, other i dunno, Rafale maybe hehe

 

[Umigami]

Jakarta cancels and scales back major defence contracts as raw materials crisis deepens.

The ministry of defence has embarked on an ambitious defence acquisition programme but is struggling to find the funding to honour the contracts it has signed. Airbus, which was set to deliver two A400M by the end of 2021, is the latest company to bear the brunt of this situation. Other deals could also be affected over the coming months as the price of raw materials soars.

INDONESIA : Jakarta cancels and scales back major defence contracts as raw materials crisis deepens - 12/07/2022 - Intelligence Online

The ministry of defence has embarked on an ambitious defence acquisition programme but is struggling to find the funding to honour the contracts it has signed. Airbus, which was set to deliver two - 7/12/2022

www.intelligenceonline.com

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545494176405499904

 

[Madokafc]

Su 35, CBG batch 2

 

[Lordimperator]

Su 35, CBG batch 2

Oh boi flanker

 

[NEKO]

Indonesia will supply few composite parts afaik, of which there is ths wing. Also, TNI-AU batches will be assembled in PTDI iirc.

Yup, although I don't know if PT DI will assemble knock down parts or build it from scratch.

From my understanding Indonesia will only supply the wing (for Indonesian and export version, nor sure about the korean version).

If some Indonesian member here is still not sure if Indonesian KF-21 will be build locally or in Korea, imagine the confusion in the Indonesian netizen.

 

[Umigami]

Su 35, CBG batch 2

That got canceled and scaled back?

 

[Lordimperator]

Yup, although I don't know if PT DI will assemble knock down parts or build it from scratch.

From my understanding Indonesia will only supply the wing (for Indonesian and export version, nor sure about the korean version).

If some Indonesian member here is still not sure if Indonesian KF-21 will be build locally or in Korea, imagine the confusion in the Indonesian netizen.

its just needed Red White Flag and "IFX" on the wing than say the magic word : "Karya Anak Bangsa".

for the export ver. who will be user/interested in KFX block i *outside ID? UEA?

 

[Lordimperator]

Oh no! Anyway

The raw material prices has been going up since the contract signed. At this point there's no way they'll proceed ahead.

maintaining small fleet of RU made fighter after all these havoc?

 

[TechNamu]

its just needed Red White Flag and "IFX" on the wing than say the magic word : "Karya Anak Bangsa".

for the export ver. who will be user/interested in KFX block i *outside ID? UEA?

The Philippines seems to be interested in the aircraft. It is alledged that a few other Asia Pacific & European countries have also expressed interest in the fighter jet. However, the main user is still ROKAF and Korea is already prepared of Indonesia dropping out from the project. Korea prefers Indonesia to remain on board, but doesn't mind Indonesia of forfeiting their already paid $200m & right to the 6th prototype so Korea could keep both.

 

[Gary]

The Philippines seems to be interested in the aircraft. It is alledged that a few other Asia Pacific & European countries have also expressed interest in the fighter jet. However, the main user is still ROKAF and Korea is already prepared of Indonesia dropping out from the project. Korea prefers Indonesia, but doesn't mind Indonesia of forfeiting their already paid $200m & keeping the 6th prototype either.

The KF-21 will be met with interest for western bloc oriented air forces that want something that is 5th gen-esque but denied real 5th gen fighters like the F-35.

I could already see Philippines, Egypt, Morocco, Malaysia, Saudi etc.

 

[TechNamu]

The KF-21 will be met with interest for western bloc oriented air forces that want something that is 5th gen-esque but denied real 5th gen fighters like the F-35.

I could already see Philippines, Egypt, Morocco, Malaysia, Saudi etc.

However, I might concur that KF-21 isn't suitable for Indonesia as the aircraft can only fly with 2 drop tanks and has a shorter ferry range than Rafale (2900km vs 3700km).

However, I thought that was the whole purpose of Indonesia getting a separate prototype for IF-X as Indonesia would be allowed to modify the aircraft from a get-go and build own fighter jet that is tailored to the country's needs including extended ferry range.

 

[Gundala]

However, I thought that was the whole purpose of Indonesia getting a separate prototype for IF-X as Indonesia would be allowed to modify the aircraft from a get-go and build own fighter jet that is tailored to the country's needs including extended ferry range.

Nope, Indonesia is not allowed to "tailored" anything. That was one of the issue which has been on the table during the second round of negotiation in Pak Jokowi era iirc. But I am not sure whats the result after.

 

[TechNamu]

Nope, Indonesia is not allowed to "tailored" anything. That was one of the issue which has been on the table during the second round of negotiation in Pak Jokowi era iirc. But I am not sure whats the result after.

You are just wrong. IF-X has already distictive features to satisfy Indonesia's tailored needs as they were specified by Indonesia from the very beginning. For instance, KF-21 is designed to do aerial refueling via the flying-boom system, but IF-X is designed to do aerial refueling via the probe-and-drogue system.

If Indonesia wishes to drop from the project then the country should do it, but I find it distasteful that Indonesia justifies her choice by putting the blame on Korea for what the country has already done for Indonesia.

 

[FPXAllen]

I'd say, right now medias are stirring too much shit up.

In this case, I would say that the South Korean media have a very reasonable goal: To voice the South Korean's frustration by highlighting the Indonesian government's slowness to just get it over with and pay our share in full - at least that's how I see it.

I don't know about others here, but I'm both frustrated and embarrassed whenever I came across KF-21 news which almost always mentioned how the Indonesian government is dragging its feet to fulfil its commitment to the project.

However, I thought that was the whole purpose of Indonesia getting a separate prototype for IF-X as Indonesia would be allowed to modify the aircraft from a get-go and build own fighter jet that is tailored to the country's needs including extended ferry range.

Years ago, there was a 3D CAD render - or so I assume - showing roughly that the space behind the cockpit which will be an internal weapon bay in the future development of the KF-21, will be used as a fuel tank in the Indonesian version.

Anyway, assuming that you both are South Korean nationals, I really appreciate you coming here to share with us.

Thank you.

 

[Windchime]

Nope, Indonesia is not allowed to "tailored" anything. That was one of the issue which has been on the table during the second round of negotiation in Pak Jokowi era iirc. But I am not sure whats the result after.

Like I've wrote on the previous page, the purpose of the 5th prototype, which Indonesia is supposed to receive, is to support the development of IF-X configuration. PTDI engineers will do the job with help from KAI.

Now, what exactly that is, is unknown for me. Maybe one of you guys can inform me on that part. I've heard that the plan to install refueling probe instead of flying boon receptor has been dropped by TNI but I'm not sure how credible such claim is. What I've also heard is that for IF-X a bigger drop tank would be certified, which sounds very reasonable to me.

In this case, I would say that the South Korean media have a very reasonable goal: To voice the South Korean's frustration by highlighting the Indonesian government's slowness to just get it over with and pay our share in full - at least that's how I see it.

I don't know about others here, but I'm both frustrated and embarrassed whenever I came across KF-21 news which almost always mentioned how the Indonesian government is dragging its feet to fulfil its commitment to the project.


Years ago, there was a 3D CAD render - or so I assume - showing roughly that the space behind the cockpit which will be an internal weapon bay in the future development of the KF-21, will be used as a fuel tank in the Indonesian version.

Anyway, assuming that you both are South Korean nationals, I really appreciate you coming here to share with us.

Thank you.

There still is that space as seen in the footages of prototype bulkheads and assembly process. More to be precise, that space is currently being intruded by gun ammo magazine and missile ejector launchers for the mraam(meteor).

When actually utilized for IWB, the magazine would shrink, effectively decreasing the ammo count. MELs would be replaced by other kind of MEL more akin to that of F-22 that is suitable for operation from the IWB.

Now, how they will fit in a fuel tank in there is a bit tricky for me. Though speaking purely from how much space there is, it seems plausible. A bigger problem would be the extra design work that would be required to compensate the shift of CoG and CoM.

Lastly, since this forum looks like the biggest English speaking forum with meaningful amounts of knowledgeable Indonesian and Turkish military enthusiasts, I've been gathering quite a few infos from here. I'm glad to provide as well.

 

[Gary]

I really find it funny that we are to protest that we could not modify the KF-21 according to our whims when we don't really have the capability to do so.

Let's face it, we have a problem with this administration, especially in regards to kemenkeu and kemehan, most of the modern weapons you see now is the result of the last admin and its effort on MEF, while this admin is torpedoing any progress we have made. From the KFX, Sigma, Changbogo etc.

When Purnomo Yusgiantoro is still around, we're actually close to leave the program due to some issues but we still honor our commitment at the time. This time around I find it hard to justify ourselves when all this admin did is dragging around its feet.

Don't they have any analyst there to figure out if its best to exit now before getting kicked out of the project ?

 

[FPXAllen]

I've heard that the plan to install refueling probe instead of flying boon receptor has been dropped by TNI but I'm not sure how credible such claim is.

First time I've heard about this.

But it might be true, especially if - and only if - the plan to acquire the F-15EX comes into fruition although that will also mean we'll still have 42 Rafales and probably some Su-27/30 with probe and drogue refueling method.