Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1702305486719356944

 

[chibiyabi]

UAE should just take over imo, and let this torture end

the project only had arround 50 % chance to continue, if 08 take the RI 1 positions. it will be terminated i believe.

 

[Afif]

UAE should just take over imo, and let this torture end

I wanted to ask it blatantly, not only you but also other Indonesian members.
Do you guys think if Indonesia ultimately ends up out of the program, it would be a strategic blunder from your side?
Because from the outside it looks very much like it.

 

[Umigami]

I wanted to ask it blatantly, not only you but also other Indonesian members.
Do you guys think if Indonesia ultimately ends up out of the program, it would be a strategic blunder from your side?
Because from the outside it looks very much like it.

Why we have to stay if what we got isn't really different from regular customers?

 

[GraveDigger388]

Why we have to stay if what we got isn't really different from regular customers?

I always give jack all about this project. My attitude towards it has always been "if it happens, it happens". So I'm not aware of every nooks and crannies.

Is it really that underwhelming?

 

[Umigami]

I'll take back my words if we could get into Boramae's supply chain.

 

[norman88]

Why we have to stay if what we got isn't really different from regular customers?

Developing I-22 Sikatan could be a realistic option for Indonesia.

 

[Umigami]

Developing I-22 Sikatan could be a realistic option for Indonesia.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1702514866638983246

If what we learn could be implemented for Sikatan, then go ahead with KFX.

 

[Gary]

I wanted to ask it blatantly, not only you but also other Indonesian members.
Do you guys think if Indonesia ultimately ends up out of the program, it would be a strategic blunder from your side?
Because from the outside it looks very much like it.

My thoughts exactly is yes. PTDI has the chance to manufacture parts and assemble planes other than the usual CN-235,212,Bell 412 . And we can do this for a friendly price. But alas, we are at the stage we are now.

Now I just want the program to end. This administration is eventually guilty if we are to be kicked out of the project.

 

[this is crunch]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1702514866638983246

If what we learn could be implemented for Sikatan, then go ahead with KFX.

Why don't we go with option of licensing the production of T/FA-50 first before we go with Sikatan, atleast we will be sure that we might need more T-50 (or better the FA variant) to replace some dozen of Hawk's that her flight hour about to end...

Sikatan would be too ambitious for now, it might end up like the hype Elang Hitam. Sometimes i see some stakeholder put their bar too high, that the "prevalent" one (or yang biasa biasa saja) can't even be achieved.

 

[Umigami]

Why don't we go with option of licensing the production of T/FA-50 first before we go with Sikatan, atleast we will be sure that we might need more T-50 (or better the FA variant) to replace some dozen of Hawk's that her flight hour about to end...

When T/FA-50 done, there will be no more place for Sikatan. So yeah, get into Boramae and Golden eagle is the best choice.

for PT DI, it's best to get new source of income. It's hard to get customers for CN235 right now.

 

[Chocopie]

Why don't we go with option of licensing the production of T/FA-50 first before we go with Sikatan, atleast we will be sure that we might need more T-50 (or better the FA variant) to replace some dozen of Hawk's that her flight hour about to end...

Sikatan would be too ambitious for now, it might end up like the hype Elang Hitam. Sometimes i see some stakeholder put their bar too high, that the "prevalent" one (or yang biasa biasa saja) can't even be achieved.

Are there any plans for a big T-/FA-50 procurement? If not, why would KAI give license production rights to PTDI?

KAI is setting up 2 more highly-automated production lines for T-50/FA-50 and will double the annual production capacity from 36 to 72 fighter jets per year. Even Poland with a 48 planes contract (12x Block 10 and 36x Block 20) doesn't get license production. Malaysia will assemble 14 of 18x FA-50 Block 20 birds together (not a real license production). Further order of 18 more jets planned as second batch.

So, Indonesia would have buy 36-48 Golden Eagles for a license production ... seems very unrealistic.
And how the KF-21 project is going, the Korean gov would be more than reluctant to finance an Indonesian deal with loans.

 

[this is crunch]

Are there any plans for a big T-/FA-50 procurement? If not, why would KAI give license production rights to PTDI?

KAI is setting up 2 more highly-automated production lines for T-50/FA-50 and will double the annual production capacity from 36 to 72 fighter jets per year. Even Poland with a 48 planes contract (12x Block 10 and 36x Block 20) doesn't get license production. Malaysia will assemble 14 of 18x FA-50 Block 20 birds together (not a real license production). Further order of 18 more jets planned as second batch.

So, Indonesia would have buy 36-48 Golden Eagles for a license production ... seems very unrealistic.
And how the KF-21 project is going, the Korean gov would be more than reluctant to finance an Indonesian deal with loans.

I might be wrong, but License of production or TOT doesn't necessarily we have to buy it in bulk and they gave it, but we get it when we asked for it, and ofcourse with here and there fees, commision, and administration.

 

[Chocopie]

I might be wrong, but License of production or TOT doesn't necessarily we have to buy it in bulk and they gave it, but we get it when we asked for it, and ofcourse with here and there fees, commision, and administration.

This is not how the world works. You have to pay for license production rights millions to billions of $. Nobody gives ToT for free, not in defense or any other industry. KAI is a company not a charity.

 

[this is crunch]

This is not how the world works. You have to pay for license production rights millions to billions of $. Nobody gives ToT for free, not in defense or any other industry. KAI is a company not a charity.

Yes, i already write it here

I might be wrong, but License of production or TOT doesn't necessarily we have to buy it in bulk and they gave it, but we get it when we asked for it, and ofcourse with here and there fees, commision, and administration.

 

[Chocopie]

Yes, i already write it here

And that doesn't make any sense. Without a high number of procured planes to whom would you like to sell these license produced fighter jets? You can't export T-50/FA-50 on your own, KAI and LM won't sell export rights to anyone.

Investing couple of millions of $ for facilities and training personnel and than paying a few billion $ for license production for unknown quantities of planes? That's economically not feasible.

 

[this is crunch]

And that doesn't make any sense. Without a high number of procured planes to whom would you like to sell these license produced fighter jets? You can't export T-50/FA-50 on your own, KAI and LM won't sell export rights to anyone.

Investing couple of millions of $ for facilities and training personnel and than paying a few billion $ for license production for unknown quantities of planes? That's economically not feasible.

Does license of production is on package with license of selling and marketing? I think that is two different things.

What i meant by asked for license is just the rights to build it locally, ofcourse not all part to be and can be produced here, some and most part still needs to be outsourced from the original manufacturer, whether the percentage of 50 local-50 KAI or 60-40 or 30-70 doesn't really matter.

 

[Anmdt]

Why we have to stay if what we got isn't really different from regular customers?

Why do they have to let you in the supply chain if you are not abiding to the contract?.

 

[this is crunch]

Does license of production is on package with license of selling and marketing? I think that is two different things.

What i meant by asked for license is just the rights to build it locally, ofcourse not all part to be and can be produced here, some and most part still needs to be outsourced from the original manufacturer, whether the percentage of 50 local-50 KAI or 60-40 or 30-70 doesn't really matter.

Correction, Percentage does matter, National Law demanded that local content minimum of 25%, atleast if that minimum percentage fulfilled, we could build it locally to fulfill domestic market.

 

[norman88]

Why don't we go with option of licensing the production of T/FA-50 first before we go with Sikatan, atleast we will be sure that we might need more T-50 (or better the FA variant) to replace some dozen of Hawk's that her flight hour about to end...

Sikatan would be too ambitious for now, it might end up like the hype Elang Hitam. Sometimes i see some stakeholder put their bar too high, that the "prevalent" one (or yang biasa biasa saja) can't even be achieved.

I think if Infoglobal and PT DI work together, it would be quite capable of making an LCA like the I-22 Sikatan. With its basic knowledge (having designed commercial aircraft such as N250, N-219) plus some PT DI architects are also said to be involved in the design of the KF-21 aircraft.
For avionics, Infoglobal is also quite capable, only high technology avionics such as HUD, Radar, Targeting POD, IRST, etc need serious development (France can be a strategic partner for this) or if you want instant, you can take products from USA or Europe such as FA-50.