Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Umigami]

Well yeah. But the point I was trying to make was: rather than buying another new aircraft for the air force, it might be better to use the types which already serving in the air force instead.

But if they still want a new platform as well, then so be it.

And start the long process of bargaining for funding request, testing (wind tunnel, wiring desain, etc), re testing, assembly, and delivery that could take a long time, for something that maybe not giving us much advantage. No way...

 

[Umigami]

Putting these here to further intensify the hype ;

Already watched them all

 

[Nilgiri]

Putting these here to further intensify the hype ;

Exciting year or two for TNI-AU....this thread gonna be really active "wkwkwk"

 

[this is crunch]

Exciting year or two for TNI-AU....this thread gonna be really active "wkwkwk"

good for us, members, admins, and the silent watchers

 

[Gundala]

Exciting year or two for TNI-AU....this thread gonna be really active "wkwkwk"

Yea I hope it materialized. With the SU35 saga, statement from former air force chief of getting Viper by the beginning of 2020, Im very glad it all come to this. Now only one saga left, that is KFX/IFX saga

 

[Gundala]

There are at least couple possibilites.

First, the list only contains new procurement, not secondhand stuff. That's why we only see heavy frigate and no Bremen class. Also the list only mentions TKMS U214 and no TKMS U209 Tupi class.

Second, the Typhoon has been in the picture for interim readiness fighter only. We can scrap the plan because the F-15EX can fulfill our interim needs. I can see Boeing gives us a complete squadron by 2022 (Mindef already said 6 will come this year).

But of course there's always argument that we want to buy 100 fighters. With only 36 + 36 we still lack 28 fighters, nevermind 36 + 15. KFX/IFX still far away (probably 2030). So there's always possibility that we will add more secondhand fighters, whether it's Typhoon, Rafale, F-15E, etc.

Yea, but the main point is both mindef and TNI-AU have reached agreemant and understanding. That alone greatly reduce the possibility for other party/faction to change the plan. In this business where billions of dollars going to be spent there is always someone or something trying to get the delicious pie

 

[Chestnut]

I actually don't think SAAB would get a slice off the Air Force budget. The picture on the Powerpoint is just that, a picture that shouldn't be taken as a serious consideration or sign.

If anything, any support plane contract would likely go to either Airbus/EADS or Boeing, they have FAR HIGHER political and financial clout invested into the Indonesian government. And SAAB can't realistically compete with that unfortunately.

They can arguably offer up a better ToT scheme but at the end of the day, it's your connections that will get your product chosen in the end.

 

[Umigami]

I actually don't think SAAB would get a slice off the Air Force budget. The picture on the Powerpoint is just that, a picture that shouldn't be taken as a serious consideration or sign.

If anything, any support plane contract would likely go to either Airbus/EADS or Boeing, they have FAR HIGHER political and financial clout invested into the Indonesian government. And SAAB can't realistically compete with that unfortunately.

They can arguably offer up a better ToT scheme but at the end of the day, it's your connections that will get your product chosen in the end.

Aaaah man...
That's mean if we can't effort E7, we'll stuck with propeller driven AEW&C.

 

[Chestnut]

Aaaah man...
That's mean if we can't effort E7, we'll stuck with propeller driven AEW&C.

FMF would beg to differ.

 

[R4duga]

"In the end, therefore, with this contract to be signed in the coming months, the Mérignac assembly line seems to be lasting. And that is the most important in terms of employment, much more than the dividends that shareholders will receive. Of course it is possible that a subcontracting agreement has been signed with Indonesian Aerospace, the former Nurtanio.

What if 2021 was a year for Rafale? One thing is certain: the friend Gaëtan will have some design work in terms of the poster. We will have to rack our brains on Indonesia."

https://www.avionslegendaires.net/2...OfJpxR2CnSsSQ_PpD7AZv9pKV_UNfd8ynGExOvSGz9NWI

 

[Parry Brima]

It's not all about 5th gen or NGAD (6th gen) for the USAF. After ordering F-15EX, they might opt for brand new 4.5 gen that's designed from scratch.

This is some interesting path they took. Could be useful for us.

=================================

USAF rethinks future fleet, ponders clean-sheet 4.5 generation fighter​

By Garrett Reim 18 February 2021

The US Air Force is studying a future fighter fleet that might include new Lockheed Martin F-16 fighters or possibly a clean-sheet 4.5 generation fighter.

The service has for years advocated for recapitalizing its fleet with stealth aircraft, in particular the Lockheed Martin F-35. However, in 2020 it deviated from that stealth aircraft buying plan and began purchasing the Boeing F-15EX to replace ageing F-15C aircraft.

Source: Boeing

Boeing T-7A advanced trainer, an example of an aircraft designed quickly using digital engineering
The F-15EX is an updated variant of the Cold War-era McDonnell Douglas F-15. The USAF says its lower operating costs as well as similar MRO and training requirements to the F-15C, were why the fourth generation fighter was chosen. It also has a larger weapons payload, which might allow the fighter to carry long-range hypersonic missiles. In contrast, the F-35 has been dogged by high operating costs and maintenance troubles.

Now, it seems the USAF is expanding its interest in fourth-generation fighters. It is considering buying a new-build variant of the F-16 or even a clean-sheet design aircraft, says General Charles Brown, chief of staff of the USAF.

“One of the areas we are pushing through is a [tactical air] study for the United States Air Force, to look at what is the right force mix,” he says. “There is a high-end fight. There’s also a mixture for low-end fight.”

Despite acknowledging interest in the F-16, Brown says he hasn’t ruled out starting from scratch.
“I want to be able to build something new and different, that’s not the F-16,” he says. “I want to entertain a clean sheet design of something that’s not necessarily fourth-gen, but may not be completely fifth-gen either. There’s some other low-end type things in our high end fight. We need to have the right force [mix].”

Brown says there are some capabilities that the USAF might not be able to get out of the 1970s-era F-16.

“Operational flight profile, we have to wait for those and it’s every couple years,” he says, describing combat aircraft software upgrades. “I was just at Kessel Run (a USAF software development laboratory) yesterday and they said, ‘Instead of waiting a year and a half, you can do this within a matter of minutes by updating the code on an airplane, particularly if you saw a new threat.’ Versus the way we’ve done things in the past, you don’t have that in the F-16 today.”

The idea for a clean-sheet 4.5 generation aircraft was inspired by the digital engineering work that allowed Boeing to design the T-7A advanced trainer in a few years and the work that also allowed the service’s top-secret NGAD to be designed and test flown in a matter of years, says Brown.

“If we’re going to do software defined, and we have the capability to do something even more capable for cheaper and faster? Why not?” he says. That’s what we’ve learned with our e-series approach with the T-7. And, what we learned with the NGAD. So, the question is: What is the son of NGAD?”

Ultimately, the decision on a clean-sheet 4.5-generation aircraft would come after analysis and consultation with the Office of the Secretary of Defense and US Congress, Brown says.

“Tac Air has to do some analysis to show what is the right mix, not only capability but also in numbers, to ensure we are going to be successful in future conflicts,” he says. “That requires some modelling and simulation, and analysis. That’s what I plan to do here over the upcoming months. As we really get into the budget for FY23, that’s where I see that we’ll really make some key decisions.”

source : https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-...an-sheet-45-generation-fighter/142471.article

 

[Nilgiri]

It's not all about 5th gen or NGAD (6th gen) for the USAF. After ordering F-15EX, they might opt for brand new 4.5 gen that's designed from scratch.

This is some interesting path they took. Could be useful for us.

=================================

USAF rethinks future fleet, ponders clean-sheet 4.5 generation fighter​

By Garrett Reim 18 February 2021

The US Air Force is studying a future fighter fleet that might include new Lockheed Martin F-16 fighters or possibly a clean-sheet 4.5 generation fighter.

The service has for years advocated for recapitalizing its fleet with stealth aircraft, in particular the Lockheed Martin F-35. However, in 2020 it deviated from that stealth aircraft buying plan and began purchasing the Boeing F-15EX to replace ageing F-15C aircraft.

Source: Boeing

Boeing T-7A advanced trainer, an example of an aircraft designed quickly using digital engineering
The F-15EX is an updated variant of the Cold War-era McDonnell Douglas F-15. The USAF says its lower operating costs as well as similar MRO and training requirements to the F-15C, were why the fourth generation fighter was chosen. It also has a larger weapons payload, which might allow the fighter to carry long-range hypersonic missiles. In contrast, the F-35 has been dogged by high operating costs and maintenance troubles.

Now, it seems the USAF is expanding its interest in fourth-generation fighters. It is considering buying a new-build variant of the F-16 or even a clean-sheet design aircraft, says General Charles Brown, chief of staff of the USAF.

“One of the areas we are pushing through is a [tactical air] study for the United States Air Force, to look at what is the right force mix,” he says. “There is a high-end fight. There’s also a mixture for low-end fight.”

Despite acknowledging interest in the F-16, Brown says he hasn’t ruled out starting from scratch.
“I want to be able to build something new and different, that’s not the F-16,” he says. “I want to entertain a clean sheet design of something that’s not necessarily fourth-gen, but may not be completely fifth-gen either. There’s some other low-end type things in our high end fight. We need to have the right force [mix].”

Brown says there are some capabilities that the USAF might not be able to get out of the 1970s-era F-16.

“Operational flight profile, we have to wait for those and it’s every couple years,” he says, describing combat aircraft software upgrades. “I was just at Kessel Run (a USAF software development laboratory) yesterday and they said, ‘Instead of waiting a year and a half, you can do this within a matter of minutes by updating the code on an airplane, particularly if you saw a new threat.’ Versus the way we’ve done things in the past, you don’t have that in the F-16 today.”

The idea for a clean-sheet 4.5 generation aircraft was inspired by the digital engineering work that allowed Boeing to design the T-7A advanced trainer in a few years and the work that also allowed the service’s top-secret NGAD to be designed and test flown in a matter of years, says Brown.

“If we’re going to do software defined, and we have the capability to do something even more capable for cheaper and faster? Why not?” he says. That’s what we’ve learned with our e-series approach with the T-7. And, what we learned with the NGAD. So, the question is: What is the son of NGAD?”

Ultimately, the decision on a clean-sheet 4.5-generation aircraft would come after analysis and consultation with the Office of the Secretary of Defense and US Congress, Brown says.

“Tac Air has to do some analysis to show what is the right mix, not only capability but also in numbers, to ensure we are going to be successful in future conflicts,” he says. “That requires some modelling and simulation, and analysis. That’s what I plan to do here over the upcoming months. As we really get into the budget for FY23, that’s where I see that we’ll really make some key decisions.”

source : https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-...an-sheet-45-generation-fighter/142471.article

To some degree sure....but Indonesia should be defensively oriented as far as possible.

US is power projection oriented for large part, so they always look at what can make up the bulk of squadron strength for air warfare after their top spearheads punch through, you dont need spearhead after spearhead basically.

INA on other hand I feel needs to have the best possible thing as its not looking for the same doctrine of warfare, but rather maximum deterrence to a much larger adversary....and inflict as much pain as possible if things do get to a war. I think it needs as much as spearhead tier stuff as possible, integrated well with each other (and sufficient protection given for their perseverance)....for this doctrine.

Rather than look at bulk squadron kind of thing (as USAF has always done and tried to optimise...so 4.5 gen "follow ons" makes lot more sense for them to look at). I do not see Indonesia needing that doctrine at least till 2050.,,if it ever really needs it at all.

 

[schuimpjes]

The idea for a clean-sheet 4.5 generation aircraft was inspired by the digital engineering work that allowed Boeing to design the T-7A advanced trainer in a few years and the work that also allowed the service’s top-secret NGAD to be designed and test flown in a matter of years, says Brown.

What is that "digital engineering" means? Like AutoCAD or Inventor for aircraft or something? If yes, that's awesome.

 

[Parry Brima]

To some degree sure....but Indonesia should be defensively oriented as far as possible.

US is power projection oriented for large part, so they always look at what can make up the bulk of squadron strength for air warfare after their top spearheads punch through, you dont need spearhead after spearhead basically.

INA on other hand I feel needs to have the best possible thing as its not looking for the same doctrine of warfare, but rather maximum deterrence to a much larger adversary....and inflict as much pain as possible if things do get to a war. I think it needs as much as spearhead tier stuff as possible, integrated well with each other (and sufficient protection given for their perseverance)....for this doctrine.

Rather than look at bulk squadron kind of thing (as USAF has always done and tried to optimise...so 4.5 gen "follow ons" makes lot more sense for them to look at). I do not see Indonesia needing that doctrine at least till 2050.,,if it ever really needs it at all.

Yes, I agree. Anyway, in terms of spearhead it's totally different thing between ID and the U.S. By operating Rafale, we'd probably get a chance to buy FCAS, which is the best possible thing, but that's still far away (> 2040).

Up to then, our spearhead will likely be 4 and 4.5 gen (I completely dismiss our chance to operate F-35 for now).

It's really interesting what can the U.S. come up with in terms of making this brand new 4.5 gen relevant to current and future challenge and how it can answer ours.

 

[Madokafc]

Hey guys 1st time posting here.

Also glad to see we finally finalize on air force requirements but also not glad that it doesn't include Vipers so if you guys hear a loud scream somewhere near you that would probably be me after hearing the news.

Also to add so I'm not just shitposting: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/indonesia-to-boost-air-force-with-f-15ex-rafale-jets/2149103



So can our C/D falcons can still be upgraded to Viper standard or it will just be another eMLU upgrades?

Well looking from Taiwan and Marocco deals in which included major upgrade into Viper level they can do


Btw, this one is mentioned used ones for F15 that's why number reach 36 if i recall

Air Force plans to buy used F-15s, Dassault Rafale​

20th Feb 2021 11:44

Jakarta (ANTARA) - The Indonesian Air Force (TNI AU) is planning to buy sophisticated 4.5 generation fighter jets, including France-made Dassault Rafale and used US-made F-15s, by 2024, a senior official said on Friday.

The purchase is part of a strategic plan to boost Indonesia's air defense capability.

TNI AU is also considering buying multi-role tanker transport and Hercules C-130 J transport planes, Air Force Chief of Staff, Marshal Fadjar Prasetyo, said in a press statement released on Friday.

It is also planning to buy GC13 radars, planes with airborne early warning capability, unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAV) with medium altitude long endurance (MALE) capability, and other primary weaponry defense systems, he informed.

"Starting from 2021 to 2024, we will soon realize the acquisition of various modern primary weapon defense systems in stages," he said at a meeting of TNI AU leadership, held at the TNI AU Headquarters here on Thursday (February 18, 2021).

"The plan to procure primary weapon defense systems has been subjected to frequent changes due to global condition, and state capacity," he remarked.

"Although we have guidance for posture, a strategic plan, and minimum essential force, the implementation hinges on various factors and conditions, which continue to change dynamically," he added.

All stakeholders, including the Defense Ministry and TNI AU, have analyzed and discussed a plan to settle issues related to the procurement of the primary weapon defense systems, he said.

"We will also modernize various TNI AU jet fighters, starting this year," he informed.

The procurement of primary weapon defense systems is aimed at strengthening TNI's power in the air to protect state sovereignty, he said.

In addition, it will contribute to defense diplomacy with other countries, as it has strategic value to constellations of global politics, he added.

Related news: PT DI delivers Super Puma chopper to Air Force
Related news: PT DI delivers NC212i aircraft to Indonesian Air Force
Related news: Indonesia, France discuss military cooperation

Translated by: Syaiful Hakim/Suharto
Editor: Sri Haryati

Air Force plans to buy used F-15s, Dassault Rafale

The Indonesian Air Force (TNI AU) is planning to buy sophisticated 4.5 generation fighter jets, including France-made Dassault Rafale and used US-made F-15s, ...

en.antaranews.com

 

[Soman45]

Well looking from Taiwan and Marocco deals in which included major upgrade into Viper level they can do


Btw, this one is mentioned used ones for F15 that's why number reach 36 if i recall

Air Force plans to buy used F-15s, Dassault Rafale​

20th Feb 2021 11:44

Jakarta (ANTARA) - The Indonesian Air Force (TNI AU) is planning to buy sophisticated 4.5 generation fighter jets, including France-made Dassault Rafale and used US-made F-15s, by 2024, a senior official said on Friday.

The purchase is part of a strategic plan to boost Indonesia's air defense capability.

TNI AU is also considering buying multi-role tanker transport and Hercules C-130 J transport planes, Air Force Chief of Staff, Marshal Fadjar Prasetyo, said in a press statement released on Friday.

It is also planning to buy GC13 radars, planes with airborne early warning capability, unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAV) with medium altitude long endurance (MALE) capability, and other primary weaponry defense systems, he informed.

"Starting from 2021 to 2024, we will soon realize the acquisition of various modern primary weapon defense systems in stages," he said at a meeting of TNI AU leadership, held at the TNI AU Headquarters here on Thursday (February 18, 2021).

"The plan to procure primary weapon defense systems has been subjected to frequent changes due to global condition, and state capacity," he remarked.

"Although we have guidance for posture, a strategic plan, and minimum essential force, the implementation hinges on various factors and conditions, which continue to change dynamically," he added.

All stakeholders, including the Defense Ministry and TNI AU, have analyzed and discussed a plan to settle issues related to the procurement of the primary weapon defense systems, he said.

"We will also modernize various TNI AU jet fighters, starting this year," he informed.

The procurement of primary weapon defense systems is aimed at strengthening TNI's power in the air to protect state sovereignty, he said.

In addition, it will contribute to defense diplomacy with other countries, as it has strategic value to constellations of global politics, he added.

Related news: PT DI delivers Super Puma chopper to Air Force
Related news: PT DI delivers NC212i aircraft to Indonesian Air Force
Related news: Indonesia, France discuss military cooperation

Translated by: Syaiful Hakim/Suharto
Editor: Sri Haryati

Air Force plans to buy used F-15s, Dassault Rafale

The Indonesian Air Force (TNI AU) is planning to buy sophisticated 4.5 generation fighter jets, including France-made Dassault Rafale and used US-made F-15s, ...

en.antaranews.com

for me it's "salah tafsir" they quote same as other news but this one is the only one that stated we buy used F-15....the reporter interpret F-15 EX as F-15 EKS??

 

[Umigami]

Well looking from Taiwan and Marocco deals in which included major upgrade into Viper level they can do


Btw, this one is mentioned used ones for F15 that's why number reach 36 if i recall

Air Force plans to buy used F-15s, Dassault Rafale​

20th Feb 2021 11:44

Jakarta (ANTARA) - The Indonesian Air Force (TNI AU) is planning to buy sophisticated 4.5 generation fighter jets, including France-made Dassault Rafale and used US-made F-15s, by 2024, a senior official said on Friday.

The purchase is part of a strategic plan to boost Indonesia's air defense capability.

TNI AU is also considering buying multi-role tanker transport and Hercules C-130 J transport planes, Air Force Chief of Staff, Marshal Fadjar Prasetyo, said in a press statement released on Friday.

It is also planning to buy GC13 radars, planes with airborne early warning capability, unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAV) with medium altitude long endurance (MALE) capability, and other primary weaponry defense systems, he informed.

"Starting from 2021 to 2024, we will soon realize the acquisition of various modern primary weapon defense systems in stages," he said at a meeting of TNI AU leadership, held at the TNI AU Headquarters here on Thursday (February 18, 2021).

"The plan to procure primary weapon defense systems has been subjected to frequent changes due to global condition, and state capacity," he remarked.

"Although we have guidance for posture, a strategic plan, and minimum essential force, the implementation hinges on various factors and conditions, which continue to change dynamically," he added.

All stakeholders, including the Defense Ministry and TNI AU, have analyzed and discussed a plan to settle issues related to the procurement of the primary weapon defense systems, he said.

"We will also modernize various TNI AU jet fighters, starting this year," he informed.

The procurement of primary weapon defense systems is aimed at strengthening TNI's power in the air to protect state sovereignty, he said.

In addition, it will contribute to defense diplomacy with other countries, as it has strategic value to constellations of global politics, he added.

Related news: PT DI delivers Super Puma chopper to Air Force
Related news: PT DI delivers NC212i aircraft to Indonesian Air Force
Related news: Indonesia, France discuss military cooperation

Translated by: Syaiful Hakim/Suharto
Editor: Sri Haryati

Air Force plans to buy used F-15s, Dassault Rafale

The Indonesian Air Force (TNI AU) is planning to buy sophisticated 4.5 generation fighter jets, including France-made Dassault Rafale and used US-made F-15s, ...

en.antaranews.com

So it's upgraded F15E or mix used and new?

 

[Umigami]

for me it's "salah tafsir" they quote same as other news but this one is the only one that stated we buy used F-15....the reporter interpret F-15 EX as F-15 EKS??

Could be.

 

[FPXAllen]

for me it's "salah tafsir" they quote same as other news but this one is the only one that stated we buy used F-15....the reporter interpret F-15 EX as F-15 EKS??

Considering that in the youtube news video from Kompas few days ago that the presenter mentioned F-15EX as "ex", yeah. This is certainly a case of misinterpretation which will leads to some brouahaha later on.

Bring on the popcorn!

 

[R4duga]

https://www.airforcemag.com/indonesia-could-be-first-non-usaf-customer-for-f-15ex/?fbclid=IwAR2XQtTs4ROoTD7dasS1OK9h257KnhdgxebnlePCkXeAT3XfbOOXrOZWTlw​

Indonesia Could Be First Non-USAF Customer for F-15EX​

Feb. 19, 2021 | By John A. Tirpak
Indonesia plans to buy the Boeing F-15EX, expecting to take delivery by 2022, according to press reports from Jakarta. If Indonesia follows through, it would be the first sale of the new F-15 configuration beyond the U.S. Air Force, which has not yet accepted its first fighter.

The Anadolu news service quoted Indonesian Air Force Chief of Staff Marshal Fajar Prasetyo, speaking at an Indonesian air force leadership meeting, as saying his country will buy 36 new French Rafale fighters and eight F-15EX fighters, along with upgrades for the country’s other combat aircraft. Plans also call for purchase of C-130 transports and a medium-altitude, long-endurance unmanned combat air vehicle.

However, “The implementation is very dependent on various factors and conditions that keep changing dynamically,” Prasetyo said, adding that the various parts of government and the defense ministry are working to address affordability issues.

The purchases are meant to address operational requirements, obsolescing equipment, the need for commonality with other air forces, and technology transfer, Prasetyo said.

Indonesia fields a fleet of about 72 combat aircraft, including 33 F-16s— a mix of A/B and C/D models—five Su-27, 11 Su-30 and 23 Hawk 200s. All the aircraft date back to the 1990s or earlier, but 10 of the oldest F-16s have been updated.

A Boeing spokeswoman could not confirm the planned purchase, but said “we remain confident in the F-15EX’s suitability for Indonesia, given its unmatched range, payload, and performance.”

She did confirm, however, that all future sales of new F-15s will carry the designator F-15EX. Over the past 30 years, export F-15s have borne a designator specific to the export nation; e,g., F-15SE for Saudi Arabia, F-15QA for Qatar, F-15I for Israel, etc. From now on, though, the designation will be “F-15EX across the board,” the spokeswoman said.

The U.S. Air Force will take delivery of its first F-15EX fighter within “the next couple of weeks,” the Boeing spokeswoman said, and the second one “by the end of March.” A rollout/delivery ceremony is slated to take place at Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., in early April. Operational testing of the first two aircraft at Eglin is to begin in the spring, and the two initial test jets will be joined by six more in the next few years.

The Air Force plans to buy about 144 F-15EX through the late 2020s, to replace F-15C/D aircraft that are rapidly aging out of the inventory. The new aircraft feature fly-by-wire flight controls, an additional two weapon stations, and the EPAWSS electronic warfare system. The EPAWSS is not being made available for export, however.