Indonesia Indonesian Army,Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Darat (TNI-AD)

[trishna_amrta]

So is it Pindad who didn't interpret those requirements in a right way and let it flow to the FNSS, or Army was lagging behind and didn't set those in a solid way?

ehm... ehm... it was the former

 

[BBOn]

ehm... ehm... it was the former

Dont mess with your word

 

[Madokafc]

Yet it was the Army (through Pindad) who had set requirement and specs prior to the development and the platform was particularly developed in relation.
Now they are not satisfied with their own requirements?
The project had lasted for 4 years until maturing and yet after maturing has received some updates and modifications after 2019 as per request. They had chance to make a solid requirement for specs, for 5 years at least.

Even FNSS officials had told in several occasions, it was a rare example of development being optimized from scratch according to the requirements and needs of the Indonesian Army. So is it Pindad who didn't interpret those requirements in a right way and let it flow to the FNSS, or Army was lagging behind and didn't set those in a solid way?

You know there is gap between user and local SOE defense industry in Indonesia, gap is mean a lot not only distance between them and technical requirement is different but other thing too, only in recent years there is colab among them in which resulted a better work between them. in Anoa, Komodo and among other you know there is always pattern of first article is an "unfinished model" products and the subsequent batches is actually improvement over the previous batches. The wrong maybe came from the user itself, the other came from our side of defense industry and the biggest sin is lies on our government who hold the budget and permit such thing happened in the first place.

The thing is not only happened to Army, Navy and Airforce had this illness too as you can see there is contradiction during Nagapasa class project, and why the fuck our CN235 MPA got different internal Spec sheet between each other for every fucking plane, resulting in delay of production and time consuming method.

Back to the Harimau Hitam, i just got the info recently...

 

[Anmdt]

You know there is gap between user and local SOE defense industry in Indonesia, gap is mean a lot not only distance between them and technical requirement is different but other thing too, only in recent years there is colab among them in which resulted a better work between them. in Anoa, Komodo and among other you know there is always pattern of first article is an "unfinished model" products and the subsequent batches is actually improvement over the previous batches. The wrong maybe came from the user itself, the other came from our side of defense industry and the biggest sin is lies on our government who hold the budget and permit such thing happened in the first place.

The thing is not only happened to Army, Navy and Airforce had this illness too as you can see there is contradiction during Nagapasa class project, and why the fuck our CN235 MPA got different internal Spec sheet between each other for every fucking plane, resulting in delay of production and time consuming method.

Back to the Harimau Hitam, i just got the info recently...

It is very sad because on the other hand if i have been aware, unofficially, Pindad is also blocking possible exports of Harimau MMWT in SEA region and a possible deal with Phippines was headed to the trash bin for the due reason.
I have always had the feeling that Pindad was somehow "owned" by military, despite of being a SOE.
Meanwhile FNSS considers project officially succesfully completed according to the first contract (since the requirements set earlier,was fulfilled), which was co-funded by Pindad-FNSS, this means Pindad will have to fund or resolve the remaining modifications on their own?
Luckily Turkish companies are not like Korean ones with thousand pages of holy-book like contracts, at least the contracts can be flexed a bit further (which has also always happened here) and FNSS does not really mind some extra job too.

And what happens to LRIP orders, FNSS has reported some deliveries to take place within this and next year, (about 40 units in 20 by 20 packs to be produced by FNSS / Pindad).

 

[Madokafc]

I'd like to know examples of what criteria don't match.

That's question would be never answered

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Because some of the parameter they set up is not met during the rigorous test back then, that's why the lacking Vigor of Army to bulk purchase them after first LRIP order and let the Companies to Made more adjustment after the order delivery being met in 2022/2023. This mean more research time and effort, thus for the mean time Army would prefer to order more Leopard 2 to fill Kostrad units and more elites units first.

I like it,
Since Pindad never bother to redesign the weird looking hull.

Trust me, the turret basket didnt need that a tall hull. Even with penetrated torsion bar suspension the hull still can be lowered.

Aniway, its will make no any difference if Harimau only carry little ammo, and the reload system is awkward.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Back to the Harimau Hitam, i just got the info recently...

You should smell it back in the days when the series of test were completed. Building a tank will not take years to complete.

 

[wekiweko]

Funny that Cavalry is dissatisfied with Black Tiger whereas the tech spec and requirement comes from them. I firmly believe that the only sub par thing in the whole Black Tiger fiasco is the cavalry themselves.

Well what can we expect from a third world army anyway.

 

[wekiweko]

j

Yet it was the Army (through Pindad) who had set requirement and specs prior to the development and the platform was particularly developed in relation.
Now they are not satisfied with their own requirements?
The project had lasted for 4 years until maturing and yet after maturing has received some updates and modifications after 2019 as per request. They had chance to make a solid requirement for specs, for 5 years at least.

Even FNSS officials had told in several occasions, it was a rare example of development being optimized from scratch according to the requirements and needs of the Indonesian Army. So is it Pindad who didn't interpret those requirements in a right way and let it flow to the FNSS, or Army was lagging behind and didn't set those in a solid way?

just remember the other similar saga, KFX. Our third world armed forces finds it easier to point finger to others than to admit wrong doing from their end. Good for face saving measure as well

 

[Ravager]

ehm... ehm... it was the former

Like .... Always ...
But let be honest .... Atleast we had some clear progress . Much had to done internally but we are progressing in much steadier pace today .

It is very sad because on the other hand if i have been aware, unofficially, Pindad is also blocking possible exports of Harimau MMWT in SEA region and a possible deal with Phippines was headed to the trash bin for the due reason.
I have always had the feeling that Pindad was somehow "owned" by military, despite of being a SOE.
Meanwhile FNSS considers project officially succesfully completed according to the first contract (since the requirements set earlier,was fulfilled), which was co-funded by Pindad-FNSS, this means Pindad will have to fund or resolve the remaining modifications on their own?
Luckily Turkish companies are not like Korean ones with thousand pages of holy-book like contracts, at least the contracts can be flexed a bit further (which has also always happened here) and FNSS does not really mind some extra job too.

And what happens to LRIP orders, FNSS has reported some deliveries to take place within this and next year, (about 40 units in 20 by 20 packs to be produced by FNSS / Pindad).

It's OK .... All this were acknowlegded even by the top brass . Hence they prefer for the gradual optimization during the LRIP . All in all the turkish company in general had a stellar reputation and voted as a preferred partnership choices in whatever next Indonesian collab project should be around .

 

[Stuka Dive]

The quantity might differs from each mdia but the items for the Air Force and Navy is still the same. What is interesting this time is the items mentioned for the Army. The article mentioned that Leopard 2 by Rheinmetall to be continued for the Army. Anway are there still used Leopard 2s in the market that can be upgraded by Rheinmetall? Or the MoD is going after for the Leopard 2A7.

This means the Leopard Revolution by Rheinmetall. As for Leopard 2A7...it is by KMW, to some extent...there is rivalry between KMW and Rheinmetall. When I was visited Abu Dhabi IDEX 2011, their booth were just across the walkway. They mock each other's product when I asked about the product superiority against its rival.

I personally prefer KMW products, more battle proven. At that time, Leopard Revolution still has no customers at any country. I think we are the first user of Leopard Revolution

 

[Mandala]

This means the Leopard Revolution by Rheinmetall. As for Leopard 2A7...it is by KMW, to some extent...there is rivalry between KMW and Rheinmetall. When I was visited Abu Dhabi IDEX 2011, their booth were just across the walkway. They mock each other's product when I asked about the product superiority against its rival.

I personally prefer KMW products, more battle proven. At that time, Leopard Revolution still has no customers at any country. I think we are the first user of Leopard Revolution

The problem is cmiiw there are not much used Leopard 2A4 in the market that can be upgraded to the Leopard 2RI by Rheinmetall.

 

[Ravager]

The problem is cmiiw there are not much used Leopard 2A4 in the market that can be upgraded to the Leopard 2RI by Rheinmetall.

There isn't any free 2A4 available anymore . Everybody holding it tight as a last resort reserves even as broke as they were . Not everybody as guilible as the dutch do ... Unless we willing to fork some decent money for a used 2A6 better to get a fresh from oven 2A7 instead ...

 

[JATOSINT]

Wonder if we did plan to buy another Leo, will jamaah amblasiyah/negara kepulauan tidak butuh tank sleeper cells will rise again or not (?)

 

[Umigami]

Wonder if we did plan to buy another Leo, will jamaah amblasiyah/negara kepulauan tidak butuh tank sleeper cells will rise again or not (?)

Their argument will never be as strong as before.

 

[Ravager]

My only beef on this expansion plan aside from the source of money is how litle concern or attention to the state of our artillery branches . We lacked the ranged unit so much it blows my mind that no body pay attention to elephant in the room .
While it was presenting an unique opportunity to overhauled our own aproaches in the said field too ...
Time are changing .... Fixed emplacement/towed artillery bunkers are a bygone trends in today atmosphere ...
I'll say .... Let's all go mobile and 155 from today onward . Tracked for Kodam and wheeled for a mobile regiments . And that cover both howitzer and rockets element ....

And somehow i get a sweetspotted for a chezch Dita ...

 

[wekiweko]

just progress with Harimau Hitam and replace those 13s, that will be a step in the right direction

 

[Ravager]

just progress with Harimau Hitam and replace those 13s, that will be a step in the right direction

It will progressed eventually . Compared to the poland borsuk atleast we are one step ahead of them if we discounting their own indigenous turret . there is so much we could explore from the basic MT hull ... and all the variant we could churned off from it .
Metal forging is the only thing holding us back at this moment ...

 

[Madokafc]

just progress with Harimau Hitam and replace those 13s, that will be a step in the right direction

They would, but for a while they hard pressed to form Kostrad Heavy Brigade Combat Team, Battalion Mandala Yudha had been formed for a while meanwhile this plan had been stalled for long time.

 

[wekiweko]

They would, but for a while they hard pressed to form Kostrad Heavy Brigade Combat Team, Battalion Mandala Yudha had been formed for a while meanwhile this plan had been stalled for long time.

so the additional Leos being mentioned will be dedicated for new mandala yudha batts, mado?