Indonesia Indonesian Law Enforcement

[Indos]

There is sharia for public domain (stealing, killing, etc) and sharia for private domain (praying, wearing hijab, and so on). There is no order found in Quran to punish any one who violate private domain sharia but there is order to punish violation on public domain. This is all about criminal law+sex before married. Thats it. Just need to change KUHP.

Aceh province, Saudi, Iran on the other hand try to intervene on the private domain which is IMO a violation of verses in Quran "no compulsion in religion". Government cannot intervene private domain. It can make a bigger problem. It makes women wear hijab not because of Allah, but because of government. Aceh province has Moral Police who seek men who dont come to Jumah prayer. LOL. That will make men go to Mosque because of government. IMO This can lead into Sirik.

Private domain cannot be intervened by government, it is clear if we read Quran.

This is why I am against Jakarta Charter since it will make government become God. (Kewajiban bagi Muslim utk melaksanakan shariah Islam/with the obligation to abide by Islamic law for adherents of Islam)

 

[Ravager]

Nope, my sharia is just for criminal law like cutting the hand of thief like that. This is the sharia law that I see should be implemented. Not like Iran or Saudi case. I dont support the obligation for women to wear hijab for instant, since in Quran there is stated that "no compulsion in religion"

So my version is different since I have read Quran meaning several times and I just see shariah law is not that hard to implement. It just make criminal get harder punishment.

No, I dont support Khalifa idea. It is just a stupid idea. If there is Khalifah in Indonesia so the next thing they want to do is to wage war with another Muslim countries to make a unified Muslim country. Just like what ISIS do. Stupid.

Khalifah is also a primitive idea since there is no succession system there, that is why after Ali, Muslim wage war to one another.

Islamist is not a single group, there is liberal, moderate, and hardcore among the Islamist.

Muslim NATO is possible though

Food for the thought ....after Ali there is no more caliph !! Pure and simple

 

[morningstar]

wage war with another Muslim countries to make a unified Muslim country. Just like what ISIS do. Stupid.

Actually, ISIS don't think "Muslim Countries" to exist. They will thing all of this world as Darul kufr because not using law that comes from so-called God.
Even the Saudi, they thing Alu Salul (how they called Saudi) is not kaffah at applying the sharia, because riba banks are still exist there and the Saudi is member of UN.

 

[Indos]

Actually, ISIS don't think "Muslim Countries" to exist. They will thing all of this world as Darul kufr because not using law that comes from so-called God.
Even the Saudi, they thing Alu Salul (how they called Saudi) is not kaffah at applying the sharia, because riba banks are still exist there.

Yes, and Chaliphate is also just a definition. Even if there is some how Chaliphate is created, then it will be problematic in managing the nation, not to mention about who will rule next, each nation want their own people to lead, then possible war between Muslim could happen.

Nation itself is stated in Quran, so having a nation state doesnt violate Quran.

Human beings, We created you all from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another. Verily the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is the most God-fearing of you.Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.(49:13)

"Chaliphate" can happen in the form of Muslim NATO and this could happen if all Muslim some how face very serious threat in the future that make them unite militarily.

 

[morningstar]

Yes, and Chaliphate is also just a definition. Even if there is some how Chaliphate is created, then it will be problematic in managing the nation, not to mention about who will rule next, each nation want their own people to lead, then possible war between Muslim could happen.

Nation itself is stated in Quran, so having a nation state doesnt violate Quran.

Human beings, We created you all from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another. Verily the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is the most God-fearing of you.Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.(49:13)

"Chaliphate" can happen in the form of Muslim NATO and this could happen if all Muslim some how face very serious threat in the future that make them unite militarily.

ISIS is more to this daleel,

“Barangsiapa yang tidak memutuskan menurut apa yang diturunkan Allah, maka mereka itu adalah orang-orang yang kafir” [Al-Maidah/5 : 44]

Crazy, huhh. So there is no one Muslim then.

 

[morningstar]

each nation want their own people to lead, then possible war between Muslim could happen.

Isn't the caliph have to be from Quraish?

Even though I not consider myself a Muslim, but I at least follow what is going on actually.

 

[Indos]

Isn't the caliph have to be from Quraish?

There is no regulation like that. There was actually democratic process happening after prophet Muhammad passed away, both Quraish and Anshar (Madinah people) debated who should lead Muslim, Quraish is lead by Abu Bakr and Anshar by their leader.

There was debate between two leaders and continued with voting and Abu Bakr won. So that is the reason why Quraish come up to be a leader. I read from Abu Bakr biography written by famous Egyptian historian, Muhammad Haikal.

Next Chalip is chosen from previous Chalipt endorsement, but when Ali become Chalip the system is not respected anymore and war happens.

Muawiyah come up become the next Chalip and set up monarchy.

 

[morningstar]

There is no regulation like that. There was actually democratic process happening after prophet Muhammad passed away, both Quraish and Anshar (Madinah people) debated who should lead Muslim, Quraish is lead by Abu Bakr and Anshar by their leader.

There was debate between two leaders and continued with voting and Abu Bakr won. So that is the reason why Quraish come up to be a leader. I read from Abu Bakr biography written by famous Egyptian historian, Muhammad Haikal.

Next Chalip is chosen from previous Chalipt endorsement, but when Ali become Chalip the system is not respected anymore and war happens.

Muawiyah come up become the next Chalip and set up monarchy.

Ohh ok.. I thought only the Quraish can be caliph.

 

[Indos]

ISIS is more to this daleel,

“Barangsiapa yang tidak memutuskan menurut apa yang diturunkan Allah, maka mereka itu adalah orang-orang yang kafir” [Al-Maidah/5 : 44]

Crazy, huhh. So there is no one Muslim then.

The problem is that they are the one who will interpret that. Just look on my version of Shariah Islam and other version which is followed by states like Saudi, Iran, and Aceh.

In my opinion government cannot intervene private domain and it is base on Quran that has no single verse saying government should enforce hijab or jumah praying to Muslim. It lets to individual since there is no compulsion in religion, but if we violates other people right like stealing, killing, and so on then there is order stated in Quran for ruler to punish the criminals and what kind of punishment is also quite specific stated there.

 

[morningstar]

The problem is that they are the one who will interpret that. Just look on my version of Shariah Islam and other version which is followed by states like Saudi, Iran, and Aceh.

In my opinion government cannot intervene private domain and it is base on Quran that has no single verse saying government should enforce hijab or jumah praying to Muslim. It lets to individual since there is no compulsion in religion, but if we violates other people right like stealing, killing, and so on then there is order stated in Quran for ruler to punish the criminals and what kind of punishment is also quite specific stated there.

And then, how about the doctrine of amar ma'ruf nahi munkar?

 

[Indos]

And then, how about the doctrine of amar ma'ruf nahi munkar?

It depends, for private domain we just can use non-violence one like advise, teaching etc but if we see some one want to breaking other people right/or our right then violance mean can be done, like for example some one want to steal other people wallet, so we can actually punch him, so it depends on the degree of the violation of other people/our right.

 

[morningstar]

It depends, for private domain we just can use non-violence one like advise, teaching etc but if we see some one want to breaking other people right/or our right then violance mean can be done, like for example some one want to steal other people wallet, so we can actually punch him, so it depends on the degree of the violation of other people/our right.

Just asking... So you want Zia ul Haq style of Islamic Government ?

I don't know just asking.

 

[Indos]

Just asking... So you want Zia ul Haq style of Islamic Government ?

I don't know just asking.

Nope, why do you said so ?? All things have already been great. Islamist is not a stupid people like some people may believe. Democracy, market system, Keynesian economics, Pancasila, Republic is not against Islam and democracy has been used during the first succession of Madinah state.

Just criminal laws need to be changed. Seem you dont really read my previous explanation.

 

[morningstar]

Just criminal laws need to be changed.

Then you have to vote for PKS, for more Islamic Indonesia.

 

[Indos]

Then you have to vote for PKS, for more Islamic Indonesia.

Well, it is legal to vote PKS, I voted different party but still considered as Islamist party but for President I chose programs. This is why I chose Jokowi despite many may think I chose for Prabowo.

 

[morningstar]

Well, it is legal to vote PKS, I voted different party but still considered as Islamist party but for President I chose programs. This is why I chose Jokowi despite many may think I chose for Prabowo.

Yup, it's legal to vote PKS. Hope you vote for the secular PKB next instead of other Islamic party. Wkwk

 

[Jaka45]

Just criminal laws need to be changed. Seem you dont really read my previous explanation.

Yeah, because changing the current law to a 7th century arabic law will be a very good idea.

I respect your freedom of speech but your opinion is just too dumb.
It's like you're half-assed on supporting sharia law.
What next ?
Killing people because they're changing their religion ?

 

[Indos]

Yeah, because changing the current law to a 7th century arabic law will be a very good idea.

I respect your freedom of speech but your opinion is just too dumb.
It's like you're half-assed on supporting sharia law.
What next ?
Killing people because they're changing their religion ?

OK, lets me ask you first before I answer that, are you Muslim or Non Muslim ?

 

[morningstar]

Killing people because they're changing their religion ?

Wow.. It escalated quickly. Wkwk

 

[Umigami]

OOT!
Indonesian Law enforcements don't care about Sharia laws, bring this somewhere else!