Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[Lordimperator]

We'll need bigger boats then.

Uhuk Suryo uhuk uhuk...

 

[Anmdt]

Turning/modifying the Makassar class into a mini helo carrier with attack helo would be more realistic for me than this kind of experiment.

The accuracy from such method of slaving a land based artillery without sufficient integration to the ship FCR would be absolute shit because of sea conditions.

In fact I wonder why hadn't we try using those helo decks in the LPD's and use them chopper as fire support for the marines. At least it'll be more accurate.

You need some guidance in those artillery, GPS or Laser then it will work like a charm regardless of the sea conditions with some basic update. Turkish Navy is doing that on LSTs with guided artillery rockets.

We'll need bigger boats then.

A diesel submarine’s compact size is a major attraction for smaller navies because of the exorbitant cost of nuclear submarines, in terms of both sticker price and maintenance. Unfortunately, a navy’s smallness also affects its place in the world, which means its intelligence network isn’t as extensive as a larger one’s might be. Thus, an Indonesian Navy Type 209/1400 might have to spend more time at periscope depth looking for its prey, as opposed to an Australian Collins class that might know precisely where its target is from well-networked intel sources.

The Navy Isn't Prepared To Face The Growing Diesel Submarine Threat

A veteran submarine hunter explains how the proliferation of ever more capable diesel-electric submarines is a major problem for the U.S. Navy.

www.thedrive.com

To be honest it has been awhile since i have read some pointless argument like that one. Australia may have a nuclear sub in future but their intel (ignoring the spy activities) is little to not existing in waters exceeding their control. The waters which pass through Indonesian territory, SCS. The will not be able to fly their high tech MPA aircrafts through Indonesian or other country's airspace or sail their submarines submerged through the Indonesian EEZ or territory (which applies to other countries in the region as well).

Last note: It is not WWI, a submarine doesn't spend that much time at periscope depth looking for its prey. (even didn't spend that long time at the periscope depth in WWII). And submarines do not sail at 100 meters depth occasionally unless they need to especially in waters foreign to them.

 

[Gary]

You need some guidance in those artillery, GPS or Laser then it will work like a charm regardless of the sea conditions with some basic update. Turkish Navy is doing that on LSTs with guided artillery rockets.

if we have the money, there's a lot of more important things to spent those money on, like for example fully equipping all 11 ASW Panthers with dipping sonar.

The waters which pass through Indonesian territory, SCS. The will not be able to fly their high tech MPA aircrafts through Indonesian or other country's airspace or sail their submarines submerged through the Indonesian EEZ or territory (which applies to other countries in the region as well).

That's another headache TNI-AL need to deal with, the waters between SCS and Australia will be sanctuary between PLAN and Allied submarines to hide knowing fully well Indonesia's navy limited capability to find them.

Uhuk Suryo uhuk uhuk...

Soryu uses stirling AIP which has some drawbacks such as..

According to Zimmerman, one can be found in the atmospheric limitations of its combustor, which prevents Stirling-powered submarines from diving deeper than 650 feet. ​

​

Like the MESMA turbine, Stirlings apparently produce an exploitable heat signature. Finally, according to Jurgen Rohweder, “The engine’s efficiency is significantly lower and fuel consumption correspondingly high.​

​

Perhaps it is a contributing factor that influenced both the JMSDF and the Royal Singapore Navy’s decision not to include the Stirling in their newest submarine designs: the Taeigi class and the Invincible class, respectively.​

​

The Navy Isn't Prepared To Face The Growing Diesel Submarine Threat

A veteran submarine hunter explains how the proliferation of ever more capable diesel-electric submarines is a major problem for the U.S. Navy.

www.thedrive.com

​

I think the best bet is the 214 with its fuel cells.

 

[Umigami]

if we have the money, there's a lot of more important things to spent those money on, like for example fully equipping all 11 ASW Panthers with dipping sonar.


That's another headache TNI-AL need to deal with, the waters between SCS and Australia will be sanctuary between PLAN and Allied submarines to hide knowing fully well Indonesia's navy limited capability to find them.


Soryu uses stirling AIP which has some drawbacks such as..

According to Zimmerman, one can be found in the atmospheric limitations of its combustor, which prevents Stirling-powered submarines from diving deeper than 650 feet. ​

​

Like the MESMA turbine, Stirlings apparently produce an exploitable heat signature. Finally, according to Jurgen Rohweder, “The engine’s efficiency is significantly lower and fuel consumption correspondingly high.​

​

Perhaps it is a contributing factor that influenced both the JMSDF and the Royal Singapore Navy’s decision not to include the Stirling in their newest submarine designs: the Taeigi class and the Invincible class, respectively.​

​

The Navy Isn't Prepared To Face The Growing Diesel Submarine Threat

A veteran submarine hunter explains how the proliferation of ever more capable diesel-electric submarines is a major problem for the U.S. Navy.

www.thedrive.com

​

I think the best bet is the 214 with its fuel cells.

Naval group is leading right now, so this is probably our future aip.

 

[Lordimperator]

Soryu uses stirling AIP which has some drawbacks such as..

Yep, the last 2 of Soryu use Li Ion, but i dont know about the export ver.

Like the MESMA turbine,

Hmmm, so thats why we are eyeing the Li Ion scorpene rather than mesma aip

 

[Umigami]

Yep, the last 2 of Soryu use Li Ion, but i dont know about the export ver.

Hmmm, so thats why we are eyeing the Li Ion scorpene rather than mesma aip

But I never heard French developing Lithium-ion batteries for submarine or Naval Group offering something like that right now

 

[Lordimperator]

About u 214, Sir Anmdt would you kind to tell, whats the diff between u214 TN and the original u214?

 

[Lordimperator]

But I never heard French developing Lithium-ion batteries for submarine or Naval Group offering something like that right now

LIBRT (naval group Li ion) doesnt exist yet. At least from the article which i read below, they intend to developed ot for australian ssk

Naval Group apuesta por las baterías de litio para mejorar las capacidades de los submarinos

...

www.infodefensa.com

Future-proofing the Attack class (part 3): regional superiority | The Strategist

In February 1937, the Gloster Gladiator biplane entered service with the Royal Air Force. It was already obsolescent; Hawker Hurricanes began operational service late that year. Gladiators were effective early in World War II, but ...

www.aspistrategist.org.au

 

[Gary]

]

But I never heard French developing Lithium-ion batteries for submarine or Naval Group offering something like that right now

I think they do

Bukan cuma Jepang, Perancis Juga Punya LIBRT, Baterai Li-ion untuk Kapal Selam Scorpene Class

Tak bisa dipungkiri, bahwa adopsi Air-independent propulsion (AIP) adalah gengsi tersendiri dalam dunia kapal selam diesel listrik. Namun, bukan cuma AIP yang memberikan predikat super canggih bagi kapal selam diesel listrik. Salah satu yang mengemuka adalah penggunaan baterai lithium ion...

www.indomiliter.com

they add MESMA AIP and Li-Ion for maximum advantage.

 

[Umigami]

LIBRT (naval group Li ion) doesnt exist yet. At least from the article which i read below, they intend to developed ot for australian ssk

Naval Group apuesta por las baterías de litio para mejorar las capacidades de los submarinos

...

www.infodefensa.com

Future-proofing the Attack class (part 3): regional superiority | The Strategist

In February 1937, the Gloster Gladiator biplane entered service with the Royal Air Force. It was already obsolescent; Hawker Hurricanes began operational service late that year. Gladiators were effective early in World War II, but ...

www.aspistrategist.org.au

]

I think they do

Bukan cuma Jepang, Perancis Juga Punya LIBRT, Baterai Li-ion untuk Kapal Selam Scorpene Class

Tak bisa dipungkiri, bahwa adopsi Air-independent propulsion (AIP) adalah gengsi tersendiri dalam dunia kapal selam diesel listrik. Namun, bukan cuma AIP yang memberikan predikat super canggih bagi kapal selam diesel listrik. Salah satu yang mengemuka adalah penggunaan baterai lithium ion...

www.indomiliter.com

they add MESMA AIP and Li-Ion for maximum advantage.

Still on development
Kapan siapnya tuh?

We need advance submarine asap

 

[Gary]

Still on development
Kapan siapnya tuh?

We need advance submarine asap

Well then 214s will be the likely winner. Their fuel cell based AIP had been used in the RSN type 218s.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

You need some guidance in those artillery, GPS or Laser then it will work like a charm regardless of the sea conditions with some basic update. Turkish Navy is doing that on LSTs with guided artillery rockets.

To be honest it has been awhile since i have read some pointless argument like that one. Australia may have a nuclear sub in future but their intel (ignoring the spy activities) is little to not existing in waters exceeding their control. The waters which pass through Indonesian territory, SCS. The will not be able to fly their high tech MPA aircrafts through Indonesian or other country's airspace or sail their submarines submerged through the Indonesian EEZ or territory (which applies to other countries in the region as well).

Last note: It is not WWI, a submarine doesn't spend that much time at periscope depth looking for its prey. (even didn't spend that long time at the periscope depth in WWII). And submarines do not sail at 100 meters depth occasionally unless they need to especially in waters foreign to them.

it's been a while to see you here again. To be honest, i would ask you something about Turkish submarine. With Neo-ottoman spirit spreading across the world, with Greece and Russia at your doorstep is it enough for Turk with current and to be delivered Submarine fleet ?

what is your opinion towards indonesian about what must learn from Turkish huge leap ?

 

[Umigami]

Well then 214s will be the likely winner. Their fuel cell based AIP had been used in the RSN type 218s.

But like I said before, Naval Group is leading right now, moreover after AUKUS. They are pushing hard.


TKMS or HDW has no "gaung" here.

 

[NEKO]

Last note: It is not WWI, a submarine doesn't spend that much time at periscope depth looking for its prey. (even didn't spend that long time at the periscope depth in WWII). And submarines do not sail at 100 meters depth occasionally unless they need to especially in waters foreign to them.

Yes.

Sometimes still need to identify the target using periscope tho, if can't identify the target using the noise signature alone, mistakenly sinking other country ships won't be good.

Or submarine go to periscope depth for radio communication.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

They are pushing hard.

Somebody need to recover the lost money before its too late. Latest news its also likely the Greece turn attention for Dutch frigate instead France.

It will not far from truck purchasing, the winner will be the one who vive bargaining price, with bunch off merchandise. Therefore offering basic Scorpene without addition capabilit have hi chance to not work. (Indonesia isnt Malaysia who buy submarine wich can't do proper submarine job, moreover watwrborne vehicle threats are increasing)

 

[Parry Brima]

But I never heard French developing Lithium-ion batteries for submarine or Naval Group offering something like that right now

But like I said before, Naval Group is leading right now, moreover after AUKUS. They are pushing hard.
View attachment 34935

TKMS or HDW has no "gaung" here.

During Rapim TNI, MoD said he wants Scorpene with Li-ion battery.

The French probably say yes to everything now. So ask them the Li-ion one.

Btw, SMX is not equipped with Li-ion? Kinda strange as U-216 as its similar competitor has it.

 

[Lordimperator]

Btw, SMX is not equipped with Li-ion? Kinda strange as U-216 as its similar competitor has it.

LI ION is newer tech, they wanted to reach aip which dominated by stirling aip then they make memsa aip *brazilian and indian ssk program although neither of them using aip. And then when battery Lion they make their own ver LIBRT, intended for australian shortfin barracuda. But now in our navy maybe they will fill scorpene or smx with their LIBRT. Because shortfin barracuda is huge. I dont know if we could afford that shortfin

 

[flogger]

But like I said before, Naval Group is leading right now, moreover after AUKUS. They are pushing hard.
View attachment 34935

TKMS or HDW has no "gaung" here.

Remember fincantieri..?

 

[Umigami]

Remember fincantieri..?

That 850 m doesn't gonna cut it anymore after aukus.

 

[Umigami]

Remember fincantieri..?

Remember Jokowi macron G20 discussions about joint production on defence matter?