Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[chibiyabi]

blue navy projection doesn't mean you have to operate and stay for long time overseas, what happen to sinar kudus with its military operations, describe the typical blue navy projections we need. plus with indonesia as archipelagic country we need navy striking force with huge amounts of fire power to protect every single island indonesia have.

 

[NEKO]

The real blue water navy capability should be able to conduct mission any where immediately in a short time of notice, and not wasting 1 month or more for the journey alone from home.
Constant presence around the world.

 

[Madokafc]

The real blue water navy capability should be able to conduct mission any where immediately in a short time of notice, and not wasting 1 month or more for the journey alone from home.
Constant presence around the world.

By that definition only one country fit with the title of Blue Water Navy today

The rest is at best Brackish Water Navy

Even French Navy and Royal Navy of today only maintain some semblance of proper patrol Forces in their far away bases which are very limited and if anything serious happened they need deployment from home which need weeks to be able to reach the trouble spot

 

[Anmdt]

The real blue water navy capability should be able to conduct mission any where immediately in a short time of notice, and not wasting 1 month or more for the journey alone from home.
Constant presence around the world.

That is called global power projection.

Blue water title refers to a navy which can operate in high seas, beyond the EEZ and particularly in the ocean, in severe weather conditions and limited land based logistics by all means of assets (fleet scale operations). A single trip into the ocean does not necessarily grant this title.

Blue water = US - Russia - France - UK - Italy - China - India
In transition = South Korea - Japan - (personal opinion China and India fits here as well, in the current conditions but not very into holding debates nowadays)

 

[Umigami]

The suite of weapons that has been proposed for Indonesian requirements include 12-cell vertical launching system (VLS) for medium-range surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), a separate 12-cell VLS for long-range SAMs, a 16-cell VLS for surface-to-surface missiles, two 76 mm naval guns, and a 35 mm close-in weapon system (CIWS).

PT PAL lays keel for Indonesia's first ‘Red White' frigate

Indonesian state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL has laid down the country's first ‘Red White' frigate.

www.janes.com

 

[this is crunch]

The suite of weapons that has been proposed for Indonesian requirements include 12-cell vertical launching system (VLS) for medium-range surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), a separate 12-cell VLS for long-range SAMs, a 16-cell VLS for surface-to-surface missiles, two 76 mm naval guns, and a 35 mm close-in weapon system (CIWS).

PT PAL lays keel for Indonesia's first ‘Red White' frigate

Indonesian state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL has laid down the country's first ‘Red White' frigate.

www.janes.com

I totally don't understand how they come up with the number of 12 cell VLS, while the universal VLS holds 8 cell. Say US MK41, Turkish Midlas, European, Russian and even Chinese goes for 8 cell VLS.

Unless what 12 cell VLS means 12 single VLS, not 8+4 cells

 

[Lordimperator]

I totally don't understand how they come up with the number of 12 cell VLS, while the universal VLS holds 8 cell. Say US MK41, Turkish Midlas, European, Russian and even Chinese goes for 8 cell VLS.

Unless what 12 cell VLS means 12 single VLS, not 8+4 cells

Maybe like De Zven Provincien with her 24 mk41 strike cell vls

 

[Anmdt]

I totally don't understand how they come up with the number of 12 cell VLS, while the universal VLS holds 8 cell. Say US MK41, Turkish Midlas, European, Russian and even Chinese goes for 8 cell VLS.

Unless what 12 cell VLS means 12 single VLS, not 8+4 cells

MICA comes in 4 pack or 8 pack. (turns out MICA cells are individual and can be attached for more or less cells)

CAMM/CAMM-ER come in 4 or 6 packs or individuals.
Separating short range and medium range hints CAMM/CAMM-ER.

However, it could be 8 x 3 and used in 12 + 12 for a certain payload. If so, then it hints MICA + Aster-15 in Sylver A43/A50.

 

[Gary]

A single trip into the ocean does not necessarily grant this title.

This is why I made Iran's case here, imo by using an overtly simplistic, shallow definition of what a force projection here, then by all means IRIN is a blue water navy considering their recent "sortie" into as far as Brazil. IMO the title "blue water" has been used very liberally these days.

Brazil allows two Iranian warships to dock in Rio despite US pressure

Two Iranian warships docked in Rio de Janeiro on Sunday after Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva's government granted permission despite pressure from the United States to bar them.

www.reuters.com

Of course, we know that Iran is at best a low-tier green water navy unable to project power outside the near confines of the Persian Gulf. All blue water and aspiring blue water navies have some sort of overseas extra-national infrastructure. If the Americans for example need fuel and ammo depending on their position, they could either go to Guam, Okinawa, or Singapore if they're in the Pacific, Bahrain if they're in the Gulf, Diego Garcia if they're in the Indian Ocean, Rota if they're in the Atlantic etc. The Russians have Tartus, Japan, China, and the US all have facilities in Djibouti.

All this is because the fleet needs to be supported while far away from home and yes that includes their auxiliary fleet in very long term. Not only fuel but ammo. Let's say the Indonesian navy needs to replenish ammo, they still need to sail all the way back to port in Surabaya. Its action radius is at the mercy of the distance of the fleet from its port.

Even the British couldn't conclude their CSG 21 mission without these bases (Souda Bay, Guam etc).

So the Indonesian "blue water' navy should have these supporting facilities to be called a proper blue water navy. Other than that, it's more suitable to call it a Green Water navy.

 

[Lordimperator]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1696471074849079634

Still a long way to go

 

[this is crunch]

MICA comes in 4 pack or 8 pack. (turns out MICA cells are individual and can be attached for more or less cells)

CAMM/CAMM-ER come in 4 or 6 packs or individuals.
Separating short range and medium range hints CAMM/CAMM-ER.

However, it could be 8 x 3 and used in 12 + 12 for a certain payload. If so, then it hints MICA + Aster-15 in Sylver A43/A50.

Alright, turns out it was quite confusing if we don't properly read and understand this without knowing a bunch of VLS information in general, I'm gonna trying to elaborate and summarize what i just read.

1. VL MICA usually come in single-cell launcher and highly customizeable in number, like in our case, Martadinata-class having 12 launcher (2×6)

2. VL MICA can be launched from Syvler VLS. But CANNOT BE QUAD-PACKED, both to American MK41 VLS and European Sylver VLS.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarCollege/comments/jeg5un

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590296422305628160

3. Sea Ceptor is the other name of CAMM (Common Anti-Air Modular Missile) by MBDA. This system just get into service on 2018 with the Royal Navy as the first operator. CAMM and CAMM-ER missile is designed to replace Aster 15. This missile can be launched with single-cell launcher, or CAN BE QUAD-PACKED into Sylver and MK41 VLS.

** i read on Reddit that CAMM-ER cannot be quadpacked. But the original CAMM can.

Single-cell configuration

Quad-packed CAMM/Sea Ceptor

SEA CEPTOR | FORCE PROTECTION, Maritime Superiority | MBDA

Sea Ceptor is the next-generation, ship-based, all-weather, air defence weapon system.

www.mbda-systems.com

4. Lockheed-Martin together with MBDA cooperate to create another solution, its called ExLS (Extensible Launching System) 3-cell VLS quadpacked with CAMM missile

CAMM Completes Qualification Trials From 3-Cell ExLS Launcher

CAMM completes qualification trials from 3-cell ExLS launcher - MBDA https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/ms2/documents/launchers/ExLS Fact Sheet.pdf I wish we'd see more cold launch systems in MK-41's. XD Otherwise - Nice.

forums.spacebattles.com

MBDA Confirms Sea Ceptor Order for Canadian Surface Combatant - Naval News

MBDA has been awarded a contract by Lockheed Martin Canada to equip the Royal Canadian Navy's new Canadian Surface Combatant (CSC) with the Sea Ceptor air defence weapon system.

www.navalnews.com

like canadian VLS arangement. 2 x ExLs VLS or (2x3) because 1 ExLS has 3-cell.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1363417899071864833

Notice VL Mica has wider fin compared to CAMM missile, therefore VL Mica cannot be quadpacked.


my commentary. maybe this is what the 12 missile Medium SAM means.

also, turns out defencehub already talking about VLS stuff since 2021. I gain many information from there

Naval VLS solutions

DCNS Sylver Vertical Launching System (VLS) The Sylver (SYstème de Lancement VERtical) is a vertical launching system (VLS) designed by DCNS. The launcher comes in several variants, each distinguished by their height. A-35 and A-43 were developed for launching short range surface-to-air...

defencehub.live

i have fullfilled my curiosity.... i am content.

 

[this is crunch]

i tried to edit but turns out my connection is bad, so this is some correction

CAMM/Sea Ceptor is Equivalent to VL Mica
CAMM-ER has the spec of Aster 15.

Italian Navy is considering for replacing older Aster 15 with newer CAMM-ER.

 

[GraveDigger388]

The suite of weapons that has been proposed for Indonesian requirements include 12-cell vertical launching system (VLS) for medium-range surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), a separate 12-cell VLS for long-range SAMs, a 16-cell VLS for surface-to-surface missiles, two 76 mm naval guns, and a 35 mm close-in weapon system (CIWS).

PT PAL lays keel for Indonesia's first ‘Red White' frigate

Indonesian state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL has laid down the country's first ‘Red White' frigate.

www.janes.com

F*cking hell that's an underwhelming amount of SAMs...

 

[Lordimperator]

F*cking hell that's an underwhelming amount of SAMs...

Atleast it will be equipped with LRSAM, from the twit rumour 3 years ago, trs4d for the radar but they wanted only mica as the SAM...

 

[Umigami]

F*cking hell that's an underwhelming amount of SAMs...

Let's count

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1696485027104899275

 

[GraveDigger388]

Let's count

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1696485027104899275

8 x 7 cells? I'm not counting the ones at mid-left and center. Can't see clearly. In any case it's minimum of 56 cells? 12 MR, 12 LR, 16 SSM, so the rest, minimum of 16 will be SR?

That so?

 

[this is crunch]

Let's count

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1696485027104899275

That is actually the very same picture of this, in Indodefence November 2022

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1696822206691680612

 

[NEKO]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1696822206691680612

Will SG bring their leo?

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1697177021997277213

Will SG bring their leo?

No info so far