Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[this is crunch]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438773718319185920

the ship's design is highly customable, that's why we are facing such confusion

 

[Lordimperator]

not clear deal of submarine in Indonesia and Philipine NG

Lets see if NG could counter tkms audacious plan or sudden counter from the rising sun

 

[Anmdt]

This ship has 4 RHIB Bays with one or two of them having multi-deck access, highly enabling USV operations and a car roller door to let USV munitions or other stuff to get in quickly but everybody speaks about typical modular stuff that exists almost on every ship design like sensors or weapons. The answer is simple, the VLS will be bought whomever is willing to make a sale, and the sensors will be acquired as far as allowed by the manufacturer country. I think what is needed at this point some dedicated USV programme made to fit into AH's bays.

I wouldn't speak a word if they scrap FREMM deal and switch all to 8 Babcock's AH design or add some Type 26 on the side for dedicated ASW missions with even finer AAW sensors. Plus it doesn't have some almighty 9 meters draft but simple 5.3-6 meters that would fit to any military harbor-port-floating/dry dock in Indonesia.

 

[Madokafc]

This ship has 4 RHIB Bays with one or two of them having multi-deck access, highly enabling USV operations and a car roller door to let USV munitions or other stuff to get in quickly but everybody speaks about typical modular stuff that exists almost on every ship design like sensors or weapons. The answer is simple, the VLS will be bought whomever is willing to make a sale, and the sensors will be acquired as far as allowed by the manufacturer country. I think what is needed at this point some dedicated USV programme made to fit into AH's bays.

I wouldn't speak a word if they scrap FREMM deal and switch all to 8 Babcock's AH design or add some Type 26 on the side for dedicated ASW missions with even finer AAW sensors. Plus it doesn't have some almighty 9 meters draft but simple 5.3-6 meters that would fit to any military harbor-port-floating/dry dock in Indonesia.

Type 26? No thanks, they are quite expensive far more than FREMM of any variants

Type 31 aka AH140 is one of the most reasonable in term of prices

FFM 30 is too reasonably much more fit in our wallet

Deep down, Indonesia is very sensitive about prices and financing term though

 

[this is crunch]

the last one is RN config

 

[Acruzer]

hi, i have a little question here, what vls has 2*6 lrsam configuration? possible for MedSam the option given by babcock is probably the sea captor on Sylver/Mk-41

 

[Madokafc]

Menhan RI Prabowo Subianto menghadiri penandatanganan Kontrak Kapal Frigat TNI AL Type 31 antara PT PAL dan Babcock Internasional pada pameran DSEI di Inggris​

Jumat, 17 September 2021

London, Inggris (16/9/2021). Menteri Pertahanan RI Prabowo Subianto didampingi oleh Dubes RI untuk Inggris Desra Percaya, menghadiri pameran industri pertahanan terbesar di Inggris pada Kamis, 16 September 2021.


Pameran industri pertahanan yang dikenal dengan nama DSEI (Defence and Security Equipment Internasional) mengambil tempat di ExCel London dan berlangsung sejak 14 hingga 17 September 2021.


Kedatangan Menhan RI dan delegasi RI di venue DSEI disambut hangat oleh Mark Goldsack, Direktur DIT DSO (Department for International Trade Defence and Security Organisation) serta Anggota Parlemen Inggris Richard Graham MP, yang merupakan Ketua APPG-I (All-Party Parliamentary Group – Indonesia).

Turut serta dalam kunjungan delegasi Menhan RI adalah Dirut PT PAL Kaharuddin Djenod, serta beberapa pejabat Kementerian Pertahanan RI. Kehadiran Kaharuddin Djenod adalah untuk menandatanggani Kontrak Komersial antara PT PAL Indonesia dengan Babcock International dalam pengadaan Kapal Perang Republik Indonesia TNI AL Frigat Type 31 Arrowhead 140. Penandatanganan bersejarah tersebut dilakukan diatas kapal perang Inggris HMS Argyll.


Lisensi desain akan memungkinkan PT PAL untuk membangun 2 (dua) buah fregat di Indonesia dengan modifikasi desain untuk TNI AL. Penandatanganan perjanjian itu disaksikan juga oleh Menhan RI Prabowo Subianto dan Menhan Inggris Rt Hon. Ben Wallace MP.

Pada kesempatan ini, Menhan RI mengunjungi berbagai stan alutsista serta bertemu pimpinan perusahan dari industri pertahanan yang meliputi bidang Pertahanan Udara, Kendaraan Autonomous, Pesawat Udara, Meriam Kapal, Kendaraan Lapis Baja, Senjata Perorangan serta Amunisi. Perusahaan-perusahaan tersebut merupakan penggagas dalam industri alutsista yang telah digunakan oleh Angkatan Bersenjata di berbagai negara.(Biro Humas Setjen Kemhan).

Kementerian Pertahanan Republik Indonesia

www.kemhan.go.id

 

[Anmdt]

Type 26? No thanks, they are quite expensive far more than FREMM of any variants

And my mind totally mixed up, i was going to refer to Type 45 not the Type 26. A dedicate AAW frigate/destroyer instead of a general purpose frigate, is what Indonesia needs to counter the adversary, which is the navy is being prepared for.

If the Babcocks design the most effective and probably with some design changes to increase tonnage on par with FREMM then why FREMM while it is definitely 1.5 times the cost of AH140 but does not offer anything additional, in fact less modular and particularly designed to meet needs of two main countries?

Cost effective term collides with FREMM to be honest.

 

[Madokafc]

And my mind totally mixed up, i was going to refer to Type 45 not the Type 26. A dedicate AAW frigate/destroyer instead of a general purpose frigate, is what Indonesia needs to counter the adversary, which is the navy is being prepared for.

If the Babcocks design the most effective and probably with some design changes to increase tonnage on par with FREMM then why FREMM while it is definitely 1.5 times the cost of AH140 but does not offer anything additional, in fact less modular and particularly designed to meet needs of two main countries?

Cost effective term collides with FREMM to be honest.

let me be honest, never put all of your eggs in one basket unless you already can build it yourself (including the subcomponent and critical technologies) just like what the Turk did with their MILGEM project right now. Indonesia and UK, historically had been engage in open conflict (and the generation soldier who fighting against them in Borneo and Malaya peninsula some of them still alive) so it would be never wise to sourcing all of our critical assets from them, unless we had short memory.

 

[Anmdt]

let me be honest, never put all of your eggs in one basket unless you already can build it yourself (including the subcomponent and critical technologies) just like what the Turk did with their MILGEM project right now. Indonesia and UK, historically had been engage in open conflict (and the generation soldier who fighting against them in Borneo and Malaya peninsula some of them still alive) so it would be never wise to sourcing all of our critical assets from them, unless we had short memory.

I know this analogy very well but does the remaining eggs ensure a survivability? Or let's say, how about the logistic troubles that may arise having 3 different classes with entirely different engines, sensors and even probably a weapon payload? Are they really eyeing a commonization among the orders? (That doesnt seem to be so)

Basket analogy works well for the airforce where you buy an asset and the maintenance cost is as much as the asset itselft for 1&2 years, but a naval force is constructed for once, usually remains in duty for 40 years with a single MLU and some minor updates.

Are they really planning a good basket analogy such that when one of the basket has fallen down the remaining can fulfill the hungry family?

Are they also considering some facts like AU? That a supplier from Europe maybe totally reluctant at a war in pacific or SEA and may not risk their personnel or shipments into the hot regions?

Too many questions, not for you since i know the answer of the most. Just to make people aware.

Nonetheless, it is a great effort to modernize a navy but there are lots to speak on that , such as not replacing the base of the fleet ie. The patrol ships, corvettes and light frigates upfront and then working on backbone large frigates to top it with advanced assets like Aaw destroyers and carriers.

 

[flogger]

Well the point is at this time ID Navy in dire of need modern combat ship as much as they can get with the most affordable, Budget wise and shopisticated and in a quick to dilever's as fast as they can get at the same time.

so they outsourche it with as many as posible local ,or international shipyard ,or OEM that can meet their requirement regarding the up coming challange event in the region.

So kinda FUBAR if they not careful and wise enough to implement this program of course there will be lot of pro and cons or bugs in the way and they must have plan how to fix it. i personaly hope they can manage it in a good way.

 

[NEKO]

@Madokafc previously you said that we will get IH and not AH variant, so it have changed. Is it because babcock is the new omt? (In our frigate case)

But is it still gonna be AAW frigate?

dedicated ASW missions with even finer AAW sensors

30FFM also good it have UUV and USV, TASS and VDS also mine hunting sonar, not only its good for ASW ops but also mine warfare. And @Madokafc said its close.

 

[Umigami]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438953905702985734

If it's DSME, NO.

 

[Lordimperator]

it's DSME, NO.

If its slbm or dsme 3000, hmm.
At this point, i hope NG could make their own audacious plan to secured their contract for ID sub program.

 

[Umigami]

If its slbm or dsme 3000, hmm.
At this point, i hope NG could make their own audacious plan to secured their contract for ID sub program.

"Never been exist before"

 

[Lordimperator]

"Never been exist before"

Then what: U216, shortfin baracuda?

 

[Parry Brima]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438953905702985734

If it's DSME, NO.

Taigei-class submarine.

(sorry I love Jap sub too much)

 

[Umigami]

Taigei-class submarine.

(sorry I love Jap sub too much)

Already exists

 

[Mandala]

17 SEPTEMBER 2021

DSEI 2021: Babcock, PT PAL ink licence deal for Arrowhead 140 design​

by Richard Scott & Ridzwan Rahmat

UK defence group Babcock has signed a design licence agreement with Indonesian shipbuilder PT PAL providing for the build of two Arrowhead 140 frigates at PT PAL's facilities in Surabaya, Indonesia.

Babcock said the deal – signed on board the UK Royal Navy (RN) Type 23 frigate HMS Argyll at the DSEI exhibition in London on 16 September – marked the first export success for the Arrowhead 140 design. However, UK officials concede that PT PAL has yet to receive a construction contract from the Indonesian Ministry of Defence (MoD).

DSEI 2021: Babcock, PT PAL ink licence deal for Arrowhead 140 design

UK defence group Babcock has signed a design licence agreement with Indonesian shipbuilder PT PAL providing for the build of two Arrowhead 140 frigates at PT PAL's...

www.janes.com

Afaik the Iver Huitfeldt contract already been signed even Janes confirmed the contract in its article. So it seems that this AH140 license contract is for a new procurement waiting for construction contract by the MoD. Cmiiw.

2 IH + 2 AH140.

Even AH hinted about the "other variant" with a LOA of 140 m.

"However, Janes has since verified with a source close to the process that Marinetechnik and FIGES are instead assisting PT PAL with the TNI-AL’s contract for a variant of the Iver Huitfeldt class, the contract for which was signed in April 2020."

Indonesia engages German, Turkish firms to customise frigate design

Indonesian state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL has engaged German naval consultancy, MTG Marinetechnik, and Turkish engineering firm FIGES AS, to customise the design of a...

www.janes.com

 

[Parry Brima]

Already exists

Will be commissioned only in March 2022 so officially still not exist.