Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[deadlast]

SG? stirling AIP, while the AM2000 will be using MEMSA AIP,

I don't think the MESMA AIP system is still offered by the naval group, the last use of this type were on Pakistan Agosta-class sub in 2011. Since then they switch to developing the fuel-cell based FC2G system instead of MESMA. I don't think they'll offer MESMA for future built boats while they currently heavily invested on marketing the newer FC2G system.

 

[Umigami]

I don't think the MESMA AIP system is still offered by the naval group, the last use of this type were on Pakistan Agosta-class sub in 2011. Since then they switch to developing the fuel-cell based FC2G system instead of MESMA. I don't think they'll offer MESMA for future built boats while they currently heavily invested on marketing the newer FC2G system.

Mesma and FC2G are different thing?

 

[Ruhnama]

I hope France won't be stingy when we want to buy "new kind of missile".

as I know the fremm has some dispute because we buy from Italy the French wont provide weapon system, if french want to sill has foothold in naval weaponry likely they can offer Aster series or maybe CAMM to the navy. so we can get new NSM, but wth aster maybe

I think it's not wise to push this Scorpene Deal.

Can This Boy defeat Australia's future Nuclear submarine? They already evaluate this design and specifications then move to US Offer.

Even our neighbors has been using this kind of Sub for a decade.

and Don't forget about India's Document Leak. IDK.

to some extent, likely AL want proven design that can launch missile, the u214 subharpoon yet launcherd from the subs u214. while we can see recently Malay already launched excoet from scorpene (this scorpene already so much drama like our korean sub)

also if take am2000 design, it is has diffrent rudder the X rudder

 

[Ruhnama]

What do u think about this italian ddx, if they could bagged contract for 08 ddx programme

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491715493866135557

4 X76 mm gun
much VLS
some 12 AsHm
from the image we seen some massive weaponry in there
(just an italian missile like have more space for their launcher likely)

i'am not aginst FAC doctrine or so on. but i think with modern naval combat technology, more suitable to limit our Navy combatant to OPV /corvette as the smallest class. So it will be DDG ( if possible ) -> frigate -> corvette/OPV.
Considering our Navy start to had 3000 tonnes above frigate which mean ideal platform to have tier 1 Ashm, AAM, radar and ASW rotary asset like Romeo, NH90 or Wildcat. it will have a bigger punch and detterent

or maybe our navy still following jeune ecole think> small, fast agile with massive wepaonry ship

 

[deadlast]

Mesma and FC2G are different thing?

Yep, MESMA use steam turbine, same as nuclear propulsion but without the nuclear (fissile material) heat generating part while FC2G are fuel-cell based (Hydrogen-Oxygen). They seem to abandon MESMA and banking on FC2G for their newer AIP offering now.

 

[Lordimperator]

anyway found a quite nice summary about sub procurement on this blog:

Tentara Nasional Indonesia - Angkatan Laut : protocole d'entente pour deux Scorpène

Blog proposant souvent de suivre les programmes anciens, nouveaux de la Marine nationale et parfois de faire de même pour les marines étrangères.

lefauteuildecolbert.blogspot.com

gtranslate works fine

 

[Required]

That is shortfin baracuda and not scorpene, and the reasons they accept US offer is not that simple from nuclear propulsion, $, geopolitics etc.

My Bad, you're right. Attack Class is from Conventional Shortfin Barracuda Class.

Well they already evaluate TKMS proposal too at the start of the program.

I think the one they try to build back then wasn't Scorpene class.

Nothing in our option can beat AUKUS Sub.

Btw Midget Sub can defeat any Nuclear Sub.
If we are in super shallow water.

oh god why do u expect a mere billion dollar to defeat >10 billion dollar programme,
SG? stirling AIP, while the AM2000 will be using MESMA AIP,

Sorry Guys, I forgot that we are not Sultan . Yeah, TNI prefer proven design than drawing from scratch.

 

[Lordimperator]

from the image we seen some massive weaponry in there

there is no exact vls number yet, but they expected to have A70 for the land strike capabilities (which Orrizonte doesnt have}

The Scorpene proposed to Indonesia would conceal some architectural modifications which would distinguish it from the CM-2000 and even from the S-Br :

The architecture of the propulsion and the energy would be adapted around elements of a lithium-ion battery whose sector has not yet been specified. It will be interesting to observe whether the manufacturer chosen for the design and manufacture of the elements of the said battery will be SAFT (Société des Accumulateurs Fixes et de Traction) which is involved in several European submarine construction programmes.

This implies, in addition to an overhaul of all the on-board networks, taking into account the consequences for propulsion because recharging a lithium-ion battery requires more power from the diesel engines. The S-Br (4) have propulsion organized around four MTU 12V 396 SE84 diesel engines.

The steering gear would be a Saint-André cross, like the Suffren (6) and the future 3rd Generation SSBNs ( SN3G )

Will the French proposal in Indonesia become the second European submarine - after the Type 212 NFS (4) - to use a lithium-ion battery? And of the TNI-AL the second navy in Asia equipped with this technology for its submarines, after the Kaijō Jieitai?

X rudder, li ion, close to Naval Group SMX

 

[Umigami]

anyway found a quite nice summary about sub procurement on this blog:

Tentara Nasional Indonesia - Angkatan Laut : protocole d'entente pour deux Scorpène

Blog proposant souvent de suivre les programmes anciens, nouveaux de la Marine nationale et parfois de faire de même pour les marines étrangères.

lefauteuildecolbert.blogspot.com

gtranslate works fine

No Mesma or FC2G
But at least using Lithium-ion batteries

 

[deadlast]

No Mesma or FC2G
But at least using Lithium-ion batteries

Which one is more superior? Is Li-ion bad or just so-so like our previous submarine?

Still too early to tell, and also Prabowo has been quoted saying "Scorpene dengan AIP" in his speech. For the next decades I think it only rational to already planned to use Lithium-based battery technology on our next subs. Whether this lithium battery will be use in full (no AIP, full lithium battery) or combination of AIP with lithium battery storage has their own pros and cons. Anyways, if either of these scenario will be realized as our next gen sub, it will be a huge leap on our "current" fleet of sub and also in region for a time.

 

[Umigami]

Which one is more superior? Is Li-ion bad or just so-so like our previous submarine?

Definitely an improvement. But how significant or is it better from AIP only sub? I don't know.

Trivia: Japan abandoning their Stirling AIP for Full Lithium-ion.

 

[Lordimperator]

Stirling AIP

stirling aip is widely used, even chinese using it

 

[Ruhnama]

Which one is more superior? Is Li-ion bad or just so-so like our previous submarine?

Li ion likely one used and advanced in this field is Japan. We know japan is excel at electronic or kinda like that, you know HP etc. Soryu is Li on equipped but without AIP
Li ion + aip in scorpene is like very good maybe

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Li-ion

Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

In the most likely case it will be 4 Exocet block 3. Putting more than 8 AShM in a single hull is pointless. You can't sink a vessel of any size by punching a hole on it. At best AShM can only "mission kill" but not sinking. Sinking is the job for submarine with Heavyweight Torpedo Well that's...

defencehub.live

Lithium-ion had more density, so if you go with standar fake U209 equipped with Lithium-ion battery you will get same amout of time under water as a U209 with aip (more-less), pushing AIP + Lithium ain't wise choise.

 

[Lordimperator]

AIP + Lithium ain't wise choise

why? i think KSS III Dosan Ahn Changho use both

 

[Van Kravchenko]

why? i think KSS III Dosan Ahn Changho use both

It will be the 2nd batch incorporated Lithium-ion battery, so current KSS 3, isn't come with Lithium-ion battery. Furthermore you can see the weight difference from Batch 1 and Batch 2 (lighter) rather than place an AIP module it's wil has more capability if replaced by Lithium Battery.

 

[flogger]

So much for their audacious plan.

Well its becouse german had but hurt when we buy those unlicend subs from sokor also they are quite stingy on TOT schame they offer recently though they still get the assesment job for fixing the nagapasa but than again sokor did the home work for fixing it so....

 

[Umigami]

Do they still aiming for 12 submarine for navy ?

 

[Lordimperator]

Do they still aiming for 12 submarine for navy ?

hmm, maybe
surely it will take a lot of time if we buy 2 sub each batch (and if we insist on build all armada locally)

 

[Anmdt]

It seems that method of launching submarine from a slip way is not used any more.

Was it ever used? I doubt it.