Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,504
Solutions
2
Reactions
118 24,907
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
FIGES from Turkey and other German designer (MTG Marinetechnik) is being involved to fixed the design

Babcock had sent their design solution before

Again, my point was this before:
Get critical assets from luxury- top notch seller let it be even AEGIS.
Get the gap-filler from cost-effective seller let it be even cheap-Korean multi-purpose frigate


For example you may see other navies how this actually works; UK, France, Italy, Spain, Japan, Korea all gets their AAW assets top-notch and their gap-filler solutions are usually cost-effective to be deployed enmasse. It matters most in nowadays warfare environment to secure an area for AA2D.

I think FIGES and MTG has been chosen for technical capability gaining and training rather than altering the design or to study on design, i know both of the companies very well. They are not actually designers but solution (not to the design) providers (You go to them and tell "mate how do we assess this in simulation and verify"). Good companies to create a team and train them for future R&D.
 

R4duga

Experienced member
Messages
1,670
Reactions
2 2,367
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Maybe 08 keen to the muscle look and heavier tonnage FREMM Bergamini, anyway does FDI/ Franco FREMM have the BMD capabilities ?
no , the only tested BMD fremm are italian variants with The new Kronos Naval Grand AESA radar (ITS Martinengo) , french Fremm with Herakles PESA radar cannot track BM

However the FDI and the new FREMM-ER with SEAFIRE 500 radar are expected to have BMD capability.
 

Umigami

Experienced member
Moderator
Indonesia Moderator
Messages
6,452
Reactions
5 5,265
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Osprey is army stuff and they are really getting them
If I remember correctly, Mado said LHD is Navy’s stuff but what inside it will be operated by other branch. (Air Force's F35B, some army's helos, etc)
 

Madokafc

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
5,913
Reactions
4 10,053
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
If I remember correctly, Mado said LHD is Navy’s stuff but what inside it will be operated by other branch. (Air Force's F35B, some army's helos, etc)

Hopefully, just let the Iver Huitveld class and Fremm materialized first
 

Umigami

Experienced member
Moderator
Indonesia Moderator
Messages
6,452
Reactions
5 5,265
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
military_buzz_20210618_071804_0.jpg

military_buzz_20210618_071804_1.jpg
 

R4duga

Experienced member
Messages
1,670
Reactions
2 2,367
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
admin military buzz are kind off late now , those news alread there since april .
 

NEKO

Experienced member
Indonesia Correspondent
Messages
3,186
Reactions
4 2,810
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Looks like France is very upset with Italy. They were totally surprised by the Italian deal. Lol.

The thunderclap of Fincantieri in Indonesia strongly shakes France

The slap is enormous for the French export team. Especially since nobody saw it coming.

Michel Cabirol
June 17, 2021, 6:00
5 mins

fregate-de-defense-et-d-intervention-fdi-naval-group-marine-nationale-grece.jpg

Will Naval Group's FDI sink Fincantieri's FREMM? (Credits: Naval Group)

Fincantieri's mega-hit in Indonesia announced a week ago is making waves in France. Waves in depth for the moment even if a few bubbles rise to the surface as the great disappointment on Franco-Italian cooperation expressed by the General Delegate for Armaments (DGA) Joël Barre during his hearing at the National Assembly no open to the press. It must be said that the importance of thej contract of 4.1 billion euros (six Italian FREMM frigates and the modernization and sale of two Maestrale frigates), rightly calls out in France at the time when the charge of the Lorient shipyard to Naval Group is not insured for the moment beyond 2028 (after the end of the construction of the five FDI frigates for the French Navy). And this especially since this contract is already in force, according to certain sources from La Tribune.

A lot of questions


Within Naval Group, which has not submitted offers, according to corroborating sources, and within the ministry, the announcement of the contract by Fincantieri surprised many and must have been difficult to digest. It also refers Naval Group and the government to its desire to engage in European cooperation at all costs, and particularly in the naval sector with Fincantieri within Naviris, the joint company specializing in surface vessels. The Indonesian contract of the Italian shipyard is therefore a huge slap in the face for France, which today feels betrayed by its partner. Perhaps out of naivety, the France team however gave the stick to be beaten.

Also, several questions arise after this huge French disappointment: why Naval Group did not submit an offer? What role did Naviris play in this offer? Why were the French so surprised by this announcement? Are the Italians reliable partners within Naviris? While the Italians, who have therefore sold six FREMMs to Indonesia, offer this type of frigates in Greece, Egypt and Saudi Arabia, why has France preferred the FDI to the FREMM?

Naval Group in Indonesia

In Indonesia, the French naval group has somewhat abandoned the surface ship campaigns launched by the Indonesian navy in favor of the prospect of submarines considered more strategic and, perhaps more affordable. It is a choice that was made several years ago by the former CEO Hervé Guillou, then continued by Pierre Eric Pommellet. Other sources believe that Naval Group was even prevented from submitting an offer due to secret agreements between Naval Group and Fincantieri, which shared the world commercially at the time of the creation of Naviris. In this context, Indonesia as well as the Philippines would have been "reserved" for Italian. This agreement did exist, according to a source familiar with the matter, but was torn apart by the blows of a penknife given by Fincantieri in countries "reserved" for Naval Group (Greece, Saudi Arabia and Egypt).

Was it Fincantieri or Naviris, which brought the Italian offer to Indonesia? The sale of the six Italian FREMMs is, according to our information, a project carried commercially by Fincantieri and carried on the political level by a state-to-state market. On the other hand, there is doubt about the renovation of the Maestrale, which could be carried out within the framework of the joint venture between Fincantieri and Naval Group. In any case, in France nobody saw anything coming. Neither the State, nor the intelligence services, nor Naval Group and nor Thales, whose Dutch subsidiary is nevertheless very present in Indonesia. Fincantieri negotiated to the end quietly in the greatest secrecy with Jakarta, where the announcement of the contract with Fincantieri is also making waves. Question: Weren't the compliance services too zealous in blindfolding and covering the ears of France in Indonesia, and more generally in the world?

Read more:

They are that shocked huh?
How about the dutch?
 

Ravager

Contributor
Messages
1,091
Reactions
4 1,239
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Sounds impossible to get 2x AAW DDG with 48 A50 on each with dedicated sensors to make it an AAW Destroyer just for $720 million. Even i doubt if Chinese can offer such prices.
We are talking about, price of 2 destroyers + IP rights shipped in the package.
When you step up to AAW Destroyer league the prices usually start from $1Billion per piece, with a fixed AESA + Early detection radar (PAAMS, Smart-L + Aster 30 /NT) :)

As i said before, the price has been more than doubled the original price. 720 million US Dollar is only for basic hull of the two ship with basic type of Naval radar and stuff as they are Made them longer and heavier, armament and other cost more than that. That's why delay for so long time as they fixed the design and secure more funding become complex.

Again, my point was this before:
Get critical assets from luxury- top notch seller let it be even AEGIS.
Get the gap-filler from cost-effective seller let it be even cheap-Korean multi-purpose frigate


For example you may see other navies how this actually works; UK, France, Italy, Spain, Japan, Korea all gets their AAW assets top-notch and their gap-filler solutions are usually cost-effective to be deployed enmasse. It matters most in nowadays warfare environment to secure an area for AA2D.

I think FIGES and MTG has been chosen for technical capability gaining and training rather than altering the design or to study on design, i know both of the companies very well. They are not actually designers but solution (not to the design) providers (You go to them and tell "mate how do we assess this in simulation and verify"). Good companies to create a team and train them for future R&D.

If I remember correctly, Mado said LHD is Navy’s stuff but what inside it will be operated by other branch. (Air Force's F35B, some army's helos, etc)

Hopefully, just let the Iver Huitveld class and Fremm materialized first

That is why @Anmdt and @Madokafc i'm still fingercrossing here waiting for the result while smoke some more try to somehow alleviate the MoF's big burden ....
Too much hope and expectation much the les the experimentation and yet it was sorely needs in these trying times .


I've done my part there ..... 😁😁

They are that shocked huh?
How about the dutch?

Well , banging heads on the table was the mildest remedies i could think off as now ....
 

Gary

Experienced member
Messages
8,361
Reactions
22 12,853
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Again, my point was this before:
Get critical assets from luxury- top notch seller let it be even AEGIS.
Get the gap-filler from cost-effective seller let it be even cheap-Korean multi-purpose frigate


For example you may see other navies how this actually works; UK, France, Italy, Spain, Japan, Korea all gets their AAW assets top-notch and their gap-filler solutions are usually cost-effective to be deployed enmasse. It matters most in nowadays warfare environment to secure an area for AA2D.

I think FIGES and MTG has been chosen for technical capability gaining and training rather than altering the design or to study on design, i know both of the companies very well. They are not actually designers but solution (not to the design) providers (You go to them and tell "mate how do we assess this in simulation and verify"). Good companies to create a team and train them for future R&D.
Same here, here should be a balance between High-low mix of warships.

actually the Sigma corvette 9113 is an ideal platform for such masse deployed warships for patrols.
 

Ravager

Contributor
Messages
1,091
Reactions
4 1,239
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Same here, here should be a balance between High-low mix of warships.

actually the Sigma corvette 9113 is an ideal platform for such masse deployed warships for patrols.

Sigmas , wether the corvette or frigate are staple our future navy as it should be . And yet Damen were squandering their opportunity . They still could recoup their losses tho' provided they willing to talk an eye to eye to us with more sincerity on their side regarding licensing fees and technical assistance . And if they still hasn't realized their folly as yet . The italians and turkey are definitely eager to fill the void i reckon .



Ra usah make mikir neh ... ☕☕
 

Madokafc

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
5,913
Reactions
4 10,053
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Same here, here should be a balance between High-low mix of warships.

actually the Sigma corvette 9113 is an ideal platform for such masse deployed warships for patrols.

Noooo with big Scream!!!

Such under developed Corvette with limited crew comfort and logistic proficient is not quite good for us who hold large sway of ocean as territory. Better to have patrol purpose ocean going OPV with minimum arms lol
 

Lordimperator

Experienced member
Moderator
Indonesia Correspondent
Indonesia Moderator
Messages
5,025
Reactions
3 2,870
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Noooo with big Scream!!!

Such under developed Corvette with limited crew comfort and logistic proficient is not quite good for us who hold large sway of ocean as territory. Better to have patrol purpose ocean going OPV with minimum arms lol
Maybe we could see Qatari OPV made by the Fincan "baby fremm" or Turkey Ada class
 

Madokafc

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
5,913
Reactions
4 10,053
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Maybe we could see Qatari OPV made by the Fincan "baby fremm" or Turkey Ada class

For patrol, endurance along with price wise Krabi class opv from Thailand (River class variant) is worthed more actually

Or if we want to use local sources better get what Bakamla get
 

Lordimperator

Experienced member
Moderator
Indonesia Correspondent
Indonesia Moderator
Messages
5,025
Reactions
3 2,870
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
get what Bakamla get
Agreed, positive effect to local Inhan and it has "karya anak bangsa" label which could improve public opinion toward gov. Could they weaponized Tanjung Datu Class?
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom