Indonesia Infrastructure Program and Progress

Nilgiri

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Jakarta Capital index is growing up at good pace lately post Soeharto rules, as the Municipal and Central Government investing more on Human Resources Development including giving access toward basic and secondary treatment in Healthcare and promote Universal Education with better access for people to reach any stages of Education. Thus giving impetus toward better quality of live and rising burgeoning middle class (especially youth millenials) among Jakarta population. One tend to forget, Jakarta population is mostly at working ages and quite young (in 2020 Jakarta median age is 29.2) with had good entrepreneur aspirations among them.

Thus compared Jakarta to Singapore who had limited scope as their resources is very narrow and limited (especially lands and human resource as a core elements of a country) and now most of the working ages of Lee Kuan Yew era had reaching their pension ages (with median age around 42.2) , and further limited their option to growing further.

Yes essentially the cold war period was most responsible for the gap India and Indonesia have built up with their LRAS (long run aggregate supply) currently....the theoretical maximum frontier of the economy snapshot.

Singapore is lot closer to it in their case, thus you correct it is not easy for them to grow compared to India and Indonesia who have significant more "easy" room to make up. In their (Singapore) case its almost fully dependent on innovation (or deploying others innovation) w.r.t pushing the LRAS itself (i.e the economic frontier)...this is very capital intensive compared to moving the demand curve along existing aggregate supply (i.e bringing more people and resources up to speed).

It is catch 22, the average being behind to someone means you can grow/progress faster, but its because you are behind still. If you are ahead an operating near some theoretical maximum, you cannot grow much or as easily. But it all depends on how society reflects on all of that. Indonesia is simply an immense country and in a whole different ball game to Singapore in first place.
 

Madokafc

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antarafoto-pembangunan-jembatan-bantuan-bnpb-071220-ief-3.jpg


With 22 Billion rupiah Grant funds provided by BNPB, worker finishing Sikabu Kayu Gadang bridge in Lubuk Alung, Padangpariaman, Sumatera Barat, Senin (7/12/2020).
 

Indos

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Yes essentially the cold war period was most responsible for the gap India and Indonesia have built up with their LRAS (long run aggregate supply) currently....the theoretical maximum frontier of the economy snapshot.

Singapore is lot closer to it in their case, thus you correct it is not easy for them to grow compared to India and Indonesia who have significant more "easy" room to make up. In their (Singapore) case its almost fully dependent on innovation (or deploying others innovation) w.r.t pushing the LRAS itself (i.e the economic frontier)...this is very capital intensive compared to moving the demand curve along existing aggregate supply (i.e bringing more people and resources up to speed).

It is catch 22, the average being behind to someone means you can grow/progress faster, but its because you are behind still. If you are ahead an operating near some theoretical maximum, you cannot grow much or as easily. But it all depends on how society reflects on all of that. Indonesia is simply an immense country and in a whole different ball game to Singapore in first place.

In the other forum, those Singaporean members blame Indian for taking them jobs and dislike their government liberal law in term of letting white color foreign worker to come to their country. They also said there is agreement between India and Singapore government that make Indian professional comes quite easily to Singapore.

This is also the way Singaporean try to become competitive
 
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ekemenirtu

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That's captured by BPS data per 2020 publication not quoted by my random idea though, you can download it here. And of i mention it with PPP, Jakarta had 660 Billion US Dollar GRP, but that's not do as i only usually quoted Nominal value in US Dollar for easy comparison

View attachment 8051

That screenshot is from the notoriously unreliable Wikipedia. I hope you understand the folly of using Wikipedia as a source of information. It only reduces your credibility.



Thank you for pointing to a reliable and somewhat authoritative source of information.

Two points of concern.

1. I see no mention of Purchasing Power Parity indices. Where did you obtain Jakarta's GRP based on Purchasing Power Parity index from?

2. If Jakarta city with about 10m pop produced a GDP of $200 billion, while Greater Jakarta with 35m pop produced "only" $290 billion in economic output, it means the remainder of the city - the 25m people outside Jakarta city only contributed $90 billion.

$90 billion / 25 m people = $3,600 per capita GDP for 25 million in Greater Jakarta but outside Jakarta city proper.

How can it be possible that in Indonesia's business, financial and political capital of Jakarta, the vast majority - 25 million out of 35 million - earn less than the average GDP per capita within the entire country?

That is while only 10 million out of the 35 million people contribute, on average, $200 billion/10m people = $20,000 per capita?

How can it be possible that 25m/35m or about 71% of Jakarta's population contribute less than the average GDP per capita of Indonesia - a country of 268 million people?





If it is GDP for greater Jakarta that's would be around 290 Billion US Dollar. As i mention before, Jakarta is burgeoning city, growing at stable rates five to six percentage per year before Covid19 Cases and had very nice prospect to growing into more developed city at Singapore level of today in near future.

Jakarta HDI itself also growing with stable rates at .807 indexes which means very developed but not yet reach the highest ceilling caps she can reach. Singapore Development as i said is already very well developed with HDI at .918 indexes and had almost reached the highest ceilling caps any city states country can reach with their current condition any further their only aims can only be to reach at level of prosperity at Scandinavian level.

HDI is a different index also of limited utility in that it is a composite of various indices and takes the geometric mean of normalized values for three indicators, for one of which they also take the logarithm after truncating any value above an arbitrary threshold.

I wonder, though, where do you get the HDI index from Jakarta? I can not find it at UNDP official resources.

Scandinavian countries, bar Norway, are generally poorer than Singapore if you consider market exchange rates. All Scandinavian countries including Norway are poorer than Singapore if you use Purchasing Power Parity index.

However, GDP, or derived statistics such as GNI, when measured in aggregate or in per capita terms, are of limited utility when measured in isolation.

That is a topic for another discussion.
 
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ekemenirtu

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Business district in Jakarta has already been like Singapore and the economy of Jakarta also is like Singapore who rely on service sector and become the place for businesses headquarters. Singapore get so many MNC who put their regional headquarter in Singapore. In the future I hope it will be Jakarta that could be regional hub for MNC.

Granted Singapore has declined considerably over the years, it is inconceivable Singapore is still comparable to Jakarta.

Greater Jakarta, supposedly, produces $290 billion in GDP for a population of about 35 million. That's less than $8300 GDP per capita for Jakarta. I might as well remind you that figure of $8300 GDP per capita is lower than the Malaysian national average of about $12500 per capita.

That is only one index and of limited utility.

We may still ask how many wafer fabs are operational in Jakarta? How many IC design firms are operational in Jakarta? How many aero engine manufacturing, R&D, assembly and test firms are established in Jakarta? How many medical device firms are established in Jakarta producing complicated and life saving devices for the needy and feeble populations of Asia? How many semiconductor equipment firms are established in Jakarta and how much do they produce in output? How many hard disk media manufacturing firms are established in Jakarta ? What hard disk drive, whether for enterprise or other purposes, firms carry out R&D in Jakarta? What are Jakarta's vaccine manufacturing capabilities? How many million litres of water is Jakarta able to desalinate in a day?

How well has Jakarta's airport been rated by internationally well recognized surveys? How well does Jakarta fare against Singapore in AI adoption or development? How many high quality papers in international journals is published annually from Jakarta? How many regional or Asia-Pacific HQs of multinational corporations are domiciled in Jakarta? Given Jakarta is not a standalone country but a city within the 4th most populous country in the world, how many Multinational corporations nurtured by Indonesians, in Indonesia, are headquartered at Jakarta?

Granted Singapore has been facing steady decline in last few years, it is too early for Jakarta to be compared to Singapore yet.

Jakarta's GDP per capita, according to statistics posed by @Madokafc, stands at only about $8,300 per capita.

That is lower than Malaysian national average GDP per capita.

There is an enormous gulf yet to be bridged.
 
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ekemenirtu

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Interesting opinions, certainly.

No doubt Singapore or the other Asian Tigers are decades ahead of India or Indonesia in most development indicators.

At the same time, due to the immense sizes of India or Indonesia in comparison to some of the smaller Tigers, India or Indonesia are always going to offer greater market opportunities.

I agree that human capital, as intangible as it may be, is of utmost importance. Not sure if Indonesia can be hailed as a leading candidate in that regard.

Not sure about India as well.

Speaking of India and Indonesia, I would consider Africa with its immense land mass in comparison to India, its immense potential for increased population and its tremendous treasure trove of natural resources as well as a youthful population as a veritable competitor.

Africa is, by all means, a much bigger market and has a bigger population than Indonesia. It is also set to leave India behind in population by a big margin in the near future given the high birth rates in many African countries.

We should expect to see a good contest between Africa, Indonesia and India in the near future as all three economies race to develop their human potential - to the extent that they can and try to make the optimum use of their comparably untapped human resources. On top of that, there are natural resources, huge landmass, lots of natural attractions and of course, huge populations.



Logistics, construction, townships, city infra etc is all important, but they cannot be done solely....it has to be done with cognisance of human productivity to stay balanced and not be outside your means etc....and over time you build up and leverage more for yourself etc. Growth must be sustainable, organic and fiscally sound as possible.
 
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ekemenirtu

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Indonesia is simply an immense country and in a whole different ball game to Singapore in first place.

True.

Indonesia, India and Africa are more comparable.

All three economies consist of huge populations, tremendous resources, huge landmass, numerous natural attractions and untapped potential that the respective governments are trying, perhaps unsuccessfully or with limited success, their hardest to develop to the fullest.

I foresee an intense competition, maybe even a rivalry, develop between the three economies in the future. African potential easily surpasses Indonesia's and I would say, given the high birth rates in many African countries and the huge 'landmass advantage' over India, we may expect Africa to leave India in the dust in the coming decades. The potential is certainly there.
 

Indos

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Granted Singapore has declined considerably over the years, it is inconceivable Singapore is still comparable to Jakarta.

Greater Jakarta, supposedly, produces $290 billion in GDP for a population of about 35 million. That's less than $8300 GDP per capita for Jakarta. I might as well remind you that figure of $8300 GDP per capita is lower than the Malaysian national average of about $12500 per capita.

That is only one index and of limited utility.

We may still ask how many wafer fabs are operational in Jakarta? How many IC design firms are operational in Jakarta? How many aero engine manufacturing, R&D, assembly and test firms are established in Jakarta? How many medical device firms are established in Jakarta producing complicated and life saving devices for the needy and feeble populations of Asia? How many semiconductor equipment firms are established in Jakarta and how much do they produce in output? How many hard disk media manufacturing firms are established in Jakarta ? What hard disk drive, whether for enterprise or other purposes, firms carry out R&D in Jakarta? What are Jakarta's vaccine manufacturing capabilities? How many million litres of water is Jakarta able to desalinate in a day?

How well has Jakarta's airport been rated by internationally well recognized surveys? How well does Jakarta fare against Singapore in AI adoption or development? How many high quality papers in international journals is published annually from Jakarta? How many regional or Asia-Pacific HQs of multinational corporations are domiciled in Jakarta? Given Jakarta is not a standalone country but a city within the 4th most populous country in the world, how many Multinational corporations nurtured by Indonesians, in Indonesia, are headquartered at Jakarta?

Granted Singapore has been facing steady decline in last few years, it is too early for Jakarta to be compared to Singapore yet.

Jakarta's GDP per capita, according to statistics posed by @Madokafc, stands at only about $8,300 per capita.

That is lower than Malaysian national average GDP per capita.

There is an enormous gulf yet to be bridged.

Look, why do you change Jakarta into greater Jakarta, whats wrong with you ??? That is statistic and we compare between Jakarta vs Singapore, not greater Jakarta vs Singapore.
 

Nilgiri

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In the other forum, those Singaporean members blame Indian for taking them jobs and dislike their government liberal law in term of letting white color foreign worker to come to their country. They also said there is agreement between India and Singapore government that make Indian professional comes quite easily to Singapore.

This is also the way Singaporean try to become competitive

That forum attracts, cultivates an emboldens certain kind of Han supremacist overall (whichever country they happen to be from or in)....so they give only their side and try establish it as full truth.

I have seen them ban other reasonable Singaporeans (even Chinese) there for calling it out, or they get attacked in other ways. Anyway its all a very boring repetitive cycle because one narrative must be promoted at cost of any other....so anyone reasonable would grow tired of it and filter it out or just leave.....people that run the place don't seem to understand this.

Having lived in Singapore myself for 6+ years, I can tell you its lot more complicated. There are lot of good folks from all the various communities, and of course there are ones that have agendas and gripes....either openly or more discreetly (and a forum can become a place that emboldens it because you are anonymous talking to other anonymous folks, which is different to face to face). I have seen different degrees of this in various ways growing up in Hong Kong too (given the situation is different too there).

Overall though the attitude only seriously gets entrenched in mainland China given there is just no real minorities per se to begin with.

But in strange twist of rare personal circumstances, I can deploy certain things to my advantage for maximum effect. I can play quite dumb as the darkie foreigner when by whatever reason I am among some Han-supremacists as they talk about me or my origins etc, thinking I do not understand. My mandarin is not great (certainly for talking wise), but I can follow along quite generally....and I do like to leave saying some choice words (or a proverb) in Cantonese (which I know very well) to them hehe...just to see their reactions as I walk out...and I am sure it might stay as a certain lesson for them to recollect and muse on later too......past the unique history of Cantonese (Yue) that presents another quandary for lot of mainlander supremacists.

I plan to write about lot of my recollections and the larger context of what I see in China (both good and bad) and what I think China even is in larger sense.... in my China series coming up later (you can find in my signature).
 

Indos

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Granted Singapore has declined considerably over the years, it is inconceivable Singapore is still comparable to Jakarta.

Greater Jakarta, supposedly, produces $290 billion in GDP for a population of about 35 million. That's less than $8300 GDP per capita for Jakarta. I might as well remind you that figure of $8300 GDP per capita is lower than the Malaysian national average of about $12500 per capita.

That is only one index and of limited utility.

We may still ask how many wafer fabs are operational in Jakarta? How many IC design firms are operational in Jakarta? How many aero engine manufacturing, R&D, assembly and test firms are established in Jakarta? How many medical device firms are established in Jakarta producing complicated and life saving devices for the needy and feeble populations of Asia? How many semiconductor equipment firms are established in Jakarta and how much do they produce in output? How many hard disk media manufacturing firms are established in Jakarta ? What hard disk drive, whether for enterprise or other purposes, firms carry out R&D in Jakarta? What are Jakarta's vaccine manufacturing capabilities? How many million litres of water is Jakarta able to desalinate in a day?

How well has Jakarta's airport been rated by internationally well recognized surveys? How well does Jakarta fare against Singapore in AI adoption or development? How many high quality papers in international journals is published annually from Jakarta? How many regional or Asia-Pacific HQs of multinational corporations are domiciled in Jakarta? Given Jakarta is not a standalone country but a city within the 4th most populous country in the world, how many Multinational corporations nurtured by Indonesians, in Indonesia, are headquartered at Jakarta?

Granted Singapore has been facing steady decline in last few years, it is too early for Jakarta to be compared to Singapore yet.

Jakarta's GDP per capita, according to statistics posed by @Madokafc, stands at only about $8,300 per capita.

That is lower than Malaysian national average GDP per capita.

There is an enormous gulf yet to be bridged.

Well I dont need to answer that, you can keep believing what you want to believe and until now you even dont answer where your country of origin is while keep belittling other nations.......

Aero engine ?? Look dude, aero engine in Singapore belongs to British company, not local home grown industries

Samsung R&D Office in Jakarta

1607359155087.png



About vaccine capability, just google "biofarma" but the location maybe is not in Jakarta.
 

Madokafc

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I don't need and have an obligation to answer everything some people who had been belittle my country or my city here, such thing doesn't give me money and other benefit to me at all. For what?
 

Nilgiri

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Honestly I have a high impression of Indonesia economic future.

Its savings rate (% of GDP) is solid in mid 30s (room to improve more of course just like India to get to 40s or mid 40s).

Investment is thus coming in an deployed at good rate and productive conversion and thus quite sustainable (given this savings rate)...as GCF and GFCF are both in the same level as the savings rate.

Again there is room for improvement and reform as always...here is the FDI picture (also good but can become better going forward):


That paper overall is quite a good analysis overall on the underlying advantages Indonesia has that it will tap into further this decade.

I have worked with Indonesians and know them well like @anmdt , they are a can - do people increasingly and really I am not concerned about their economic future at all....they are very capable. It is just about learning, getting better at more things and focusing priorities correctly.

Indonesia is actually in a very good spot geographically too, it has good models all around it and its a crossroads in larger terms....rest of ASEAN above it, Australia below it....China and India in the area too.

This all matters in the end and I think Indonesia just apply itself more and further success will come.

@#comcom @Logam42 @trishna_amrta et al.
 

Madokafc

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Honestly I have a high impression of Indonesia economic future.

Its savings rate (% of GDP) is solid in mid 30s (room to improve more of course just like India to get to 40s or mid 40s).

Investment is thus coming in an deployed at good rate and productive conversion and thus quite sustainable (given this savings rate)...as GCF and GFCF are both in the same level as the savings rate.

Again there is room for improvement and reform as always...here is the FDI picture (also good but can become better going forward):


That paper overall is quite a good analysis overall on the underlying advantages Indonesia has that it will tap into further this decade.

I have worked with Indonesians and know them well like @anmdt , they are a can - do people increasingly and really I am not concerned about their economic future at all....they are very capable. It is just about learning, getting better at more things and focusing priorities correctly.

Indonesia is actually in a very good spot geographically too, it has good models all around it and its a crossroads in larger terms....rest of ASEAN above it, Australia below it....China and India in the area too.

This all matters in the end and I think Indonesia just apply itself more and further success will come.

@#comcom @Logam42 @trishna_amrta et al.

But but Indonesia is not immensely Supa Pawa country who ready to eat grass and have nuclear weapons along with hundreds old French fighter from sixty decade still flying today and thousands APC and tanks, we don't borrowing money and called it Investment to build our own infrastructure and importing everything including raucous foreign worker who can slap our Police at will because they are not permitted to visit red light districts amid pandemic. We are not that kind of Supa Pawa!!!
 

trishna_amrta

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Honestly I have a high impression of Indonesia economic future.

Its savings rate (% of GDP) is solid in mid 30s (room to improve more of course just like India to get to 40s or mid 40s).

Investment is thus coming in an deployed at good rate and productive conversion and thus quite sustainable (given this savings rate)...as GCF and GFCF are both in the same level as the savings rate.

Again there is room for improvement and reform as always...here is the FDI picture (also good but can become better going forward):


That paper overall is quite a good analysis overall on the underlying advantages Indonesia has that it will tap into further this decade.
Unfortunately I don't have any high expectation for Indonesia macroeconomic other than expecting stability (monetary & debt ratio) I see things more from fundamental aspect on the ground rather than looking the figures.

That paper only scrutinize the figures on the surface. What one need to understand is, rather than scrutinizing the statistic on the surface one should scrutinize how those statistics were collected. For example, if one look at the figures of Indonesia internet subscriber, the number is growing and look fantastic. Unfortunately when one dig deeper into those statistics the numbers is actually pretty low, in fact the figures doesn't count toward the number of person who have internet access but rather the numbers of internet subscription account. In this case someone like me who subscribed to 6 different network providers with 2 of them are US & UK based is count as 4 subscribers. It's the same thing with statistic regarding other aspect of demographic such as personal identification or religion. And in this case someone with multiple identity such as myself (and thousands of others) will get count toward the number on their identification paper rather than the actual person.

On the legal & regulation front. Despite the newly introduced Omnibus Law I extremely doubt it will significantly boost growth. The problem has always been at the municipal level gov't. The omnibus law is a good start, but it doesn't fix the root cause of the problem at the municipal level.

Another aspect to be considered is PPP (Purchasing Power Parity). For figure of comparison I use The Big Mac index. Using my locality minimum wage for the year 2021. A week works hours (40 hours) is worth equal to 28.8 McDonald Big Mac. Both minimum wage & McDonald Big Mac price are before tax

nhj93oZApoMavF1lC6Wm.png

good gracious, do you have any idea how difficult it is to write a long post in this forum?

Another aspect that hampering Indonesia economy is INFRASTRUCTURE and MANPOWER
Despite Jokowi administration drive for infrastructure, the availability & reliability of infrastructure outside Jakarta greater area is still legging far behind even in place such as Surabaya where I live. Another aspect to be wary about is ICOR (Incremental Capital Output Ratio)

Love to elaborate further on the legal, regulation side but writing anything long in this forum has proved to be more problematic than its worth
 
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Madokafc

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Unfortunately I don't have any high expectation for Indonesia macroeconomic other than expecting stability (monetary & debt ratio) I see things more from fundamental aspect on the ground rather than looking the figures.

That paper only scrutinize the figures on the surface. What one need to understand is, rather than scrutinizing the statistic on the surface one should scrutinize how those statistics were collected. For example, if one look at the figures of Indonesia internet subscriber, the number is growing and look fantastic. Unfortunately when one dig deeper into those statistics the numbers is actually pretty low, in fact the figures doesn't count toward the number of person who have internet access but rather the numbers of internet subscription account. In this case someone like me who subscribed to 6 different network providers with 2 of them are US & UK based is count as 4 subscribers. It's the same thing with statistic regarding other aspect of demographic such as personal identification or religion. And in this case someone with multiple identity such as myself (and thousands of others) will get count toward the number on their identification paper rather than the actual person.

On the legal & regulation front. Despite the newly introduced Omnibus Law I extremely doubt it will significantly boost growth. The problem has always been at the municipal level gov't. The omnibus law is a good start, but it doesn't fix the root cause of the problem at the municipal level.

Another aspect to be considered is PPP (Purchasing Power Parity). For figure of comparison I use The Big Mac index. Using my locality minimum wage for the year 2021. A week works hours (40 hours) is worth equal to 28.8 McDonald Big Mac. Both minimum wage & McDonald Big Mac price are before tax

nhj93oZApoMavF1lC6Wm.png

good gracious, do you have any idea how difficult it is to write a long post in this forum?

Another aspect that hampering Indonesia economy is INFRASTRUCTURE and MANPOWER
Despite Jokowi administration drive for infrastructure, the availability & reliability of infrastructure outside Jakarta greater area is still legging far behind even in place such as Surabaya where I live. Another aspect to be wary about is ICOR (Incremental Capital Output Ratio)

Love to elaborate further on the legal, regulation side but writing anything long in this forum has proved to be more problematic than its worth

You don't get paid for such elaborate answer LoL, when you are in the office you will get credit for one excellent presentation. That's why i am only answer and giving short explanation nowadays, LoL.
 

Nilgiri

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Love to elaborate further on the legal, regulation side but writing anything long in this forum has proved to be more problematic than its worth

Is this a glitch issue or something you face when posting? I use PC for this forum in general for posting though (on mobile etc I just mostly read, I havent tried posting from it).

Or you mean in general terms for forum in general, typing out long is arduous etc? I have to blitz out large documents from time to time, so I suppose I am more used to it heh.

That paper only scrutinize the figures on the surface. What one need to understand is, rather than scrutinizing the statistic on the surface one should scrutinize how those statistics were collected. For example, if one look at the figures of Indonesia internet subscriber, the number is growing and look fantastic. Unfortunately when one dig deeper into those statistics the numbers is actually pretty low, in fact the figures doesn't count toward the number of person who have internet access but rather the numbers of internet subscription account. In this case someone like me who subscribed to 6 different network providers with 2 of them are US & UK based is count as 4 subscribers. It's the same thing with statistic regarding other aspect of demographic such as personal identification or religion. And in this case someone with multiple identity such as myself (and thousands of others) will get count toward the number on their identification paper rather than the actual person.

I agree with your post as a whole, each country has its specific set of issues, there is no easy ride, the challenges are all there particular for each country.

But in very broad terms I look at things like savings rate (esp when country is coming from consumption history to a more supply side objective) to get idea of what level of "bread" quality we are looking in very general terms...and Indonesia has achieved the basic thresholds here that are promising. I guess we can look at something like FDI breakup by sector too to get idea of what is operating in older legacy economy and what is going to newer or manufacturing sectors etc.

As for the internet subscriber thing (i.e user vs account) I have run across that previously with a number of countries (like when comparing Bangladesh and India) as different governments do sometimes pad the numbers exactly the way you have described, and then it gets worse when you compare to another country that uses more genuine definition and compare in some apples-apples way when its actually apples-oranges.

Anyway I tend to go to ITU for the common definition (i.e user survey):


Indonesia is at about 48% as of 2019.

Given its economic level it correlates fairly well in between China and India rates (54% and 34%) if you ask me.

You can find more related statistics both there and larger page:

 

trishna_amrta

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Is this a glitch issue or something you face when posting? I use PC for this forum in general for posting though (on mobile etc I just mostly read, I havent tried posting from it).

Or you mean in general terms for forum in general, typing out long is arduous etc? I have to blitz out large documents from time to time, so I suppose I am more used to it heh.
I don't use mobile device. I only use mobile device (particularly phone) only to make phone call, texting, taking picture, network tethering, and navigation (Sea, Air, and Land)

This forum in general have slow respond. More so if I need to multi-quote. And it has nothing to do with my internet connection, because in the most likely case my internet connection is at least in better state than most if not all the Indonesian posters here

I kept getting logging out after wrote something, thus ending up to rewrite everything. Furthermore, the size of the text box to write post is rather too small to write anything in structuralized fashion. While if I wrote it in other app (Notepad for example) there will be formatting issue. And of course there is also this factor
You don't get paid for such elaborate answer LoL

As for the internet subscriber thing (i.e user vs account) I have run across that previously with a number of countries (like when comparing Bangladesh and India) as different governments do sometimes pad the numbers exactly the way you have described, and then it gets worse when you compare to another country that uses more genuine definition and compare in some apples-apples way when its actually apples-oranges.

Anyway I tend to go to ITU for the common definition (i.e user survey):


Indonesia is at about 48% as of 2019.
ITU method is based upon TCP/IP based subscription, In Indonesia however every SIM card that is newly registered / activated came included with TCP/IP subscription aka the internet. Whether the internet subscription is practically usable or not is another story, what matter is it get count toward the total intenet subscriber even when the subscription plan is practically useless. Also keep in mind that once a SiM card is activated it will be persistent in the statistic. For example, when I dump a SIM card that originally has an internet subscription plan that I no longer use, the SIM card ID (account) will be recycled into a new physical SIM card to be offered to a new customer, however during that recycle period the original subscription plan will persist in the statistic even when the new SIM card sitting on the store shelf waiting for a new customer

48% internet penetration of Indonesia population in 2019 is literally Impossible. My best guess is around 10% of total population. And In less than a decade the figures of Indonesia internet subscriber will be larger than the actual total population
 

Madokafc

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I don't use mobile device. I only use mobile device (particularly phone) only to make phone call, texting, taking picture, network tethering, and navigation (Sea, Air, and Land)

This forum in general have slow respond. More so if I need to multi-quote. And it has nothing to do with my internet connection, because in the most likely case my internet connection is at least in better state than most if not all the Indonesian posters here

I kept getting logging out after wrote something, thus ending up to rewrite everything. Furthermore, the size of the text box to write post is rather too small to write anything in structuralized fashion. While if I wrote it in other app (Notepad for example) there will be formatting issue. And of course there is also this factor



ITU method is based upon TCP/IP based subscription, In Indonesia however every SIM card that is newly registered / activated came included with TCP/IP subscription aka the internet. Whether the internet subscription is practically usable or not is another story, what matter is it get count toward the total intenet subscriber even when the subscription plan is practically useless. Also keep in mind that once a SiM card is activated it will be persistent in the statistic. For example, when I dump a SIM card that originally has an internet subscription plan that I no longer use, the SIM card ID (account) will be recycled into a new physical SIM card to be offered to a new customer, however during that recycle period the original subscription plan will persist in the statistic even when the new SIM card sitting on the store shelf waiting for a new customer

48% internet penetration of Indonesia population in 2019 is literally Impossible. My best guess is around 10% of total population. And In less than a decade the figures of Indonesia internet subscriber will be larger than the actual total population

There is almost no contribution toward economy if most of the subscriber in Indonesia only following Atta Halilintar channel or the likes....sigh
 

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