Is Turkey turning into the next Iran?

[FalconSlayersDFI]

@FalconSlayersDFI please follow forum rules. Don't do ad-hominem against entire people/country.

I had deleted it many days ago, i don’t know how it popped up again.

 

[Waz]

Isn’t it the truth? In a seperate thread I’ll prove you you every point that I made, ready?

If you’re ready for a ban go ahead.
You remind of someone who just doesn’t know to stop digging a hole for himself.

 

[Kaptaan]

That is the reason why left wing libtards are so butthurted with countries that are having Right Wing majority, so they give hindutva fascist and white supremacist tags to countries for no reason.

Says a guy who gave a rant about Pakistan. Imran Khan is a populist just like Modi only Imran Khan is not a uncouth chaiwallah but a sophisticated man who is at home in the west as much as in Pakistan. His background is philanthropist and has dedicated his life since he retired from professional sportsman to fighting and helping the poor. He has built world class hospitals which provide free medical care to all.

Since becoming Prime Minister Imran Khan has directed his policies to uplift the poor. Thus far every citizen in Khyber Pakhtunkwa has been provided national health insurance which provides free medical care. The scheme is now being rolled out in Punjab and will be 100% implemented by end of the year.

A social welfare scheme called Ehsaas has been rolled out which provides financial stipend to the poor, the infirm, elderly and widows. This week Naya Pakistan project has been launched which aims to provide government subsidised housing to all the poor in the country. Millions of apartments and houses are being built across the country.

So sorry to blow your bubble but lot more is going on then 'Kashmir'. I would not have posted this here but I am compelled to rebut the propaganda by a member here.

 

[Kaptaan]

You remind of someone who just doesn’t know to stop digging a hole for himself.

I take it that is a tangential referance to me?

 

[dani92]

Why do Iranians hate Islam??

As Muslims when we use religion to oppress im not surprised if people hate our religion.

Religion is suppose to uplift and not oppress. Many examples of our history lets not forget how the Ummayads and the Abbassids executed righteous scholars who spoke out against their oppression.

Many example of other religions being used to oppress. Secularism and liberalism can also be used to oppress people.

Some because nationalism and some because of the Mullahs.

 

[Waz]

I take it that is a tangential referance to me?

Lol bro are you kidding? Follow my posts. You just quoted the dude I was in about.

 

[Kaptaan]

Some because nationalism and some because of the Mullahs.

This is true. We must keep in mind iran had a glorious history before advent of Islam. Defeat by Arabs and introduction to Islam has left a scar on Persian mind. Add this historical sentiment to the forced Islam y the state on the people - many of whom are now closet athiests has turned many against he mullahs.

This can't go on forever. At some point there will be a soft revolution.

 

[dani92]

This is true. We must keep in mind iran had a glorious history before advent of Islam. Defeat by Arabs and introduction to Islam has left a scar on Persian mind. Add this historical sentiment to the forced Islam y the state on the people - many of whom are now closet athiests has turned many against he mullahs.

This can't go on forever. At some point there will be a soft revolution.

I wonder by Pakistanis don’t feel the same or at least some of them admire raja dhahir for nationalistic secular point of view.

 

[Ryder]

This is true. We must keep in mind iran had a glorious history before advent of Islam. Defeat by Arabs and introduction to Islam has left a scar on Persian mind. Add this historical sentiment to the forced Islam y the state on the people - many of whom are now closet athiests has turned many against he mullahs.

This can't go on forever. At some point there will be a soft revolution.

Persians got wrecked by the Arabs rightfully so. After the Arabs the Turks, Mongols, Russians, British and now the Americans are wrecking Persians.

Persians are racist to the core thats why nobody likes them they are racist and arrogant. These guys got their asses handed to them by the Greeks and the Romans.

Also Persians contributing to the Islamic Golden age is a bs myth. When you had various ethnic groups who contributed while Persians just make it about themselves.

One day I hope the Mullah regime get what they deserve.

 

[ekemenirtu]

I would like to hear your comments after the latest events that took place these past few days.

You have to expand on that.

In what sense do you foresee Turkey resembling Iran or becoming the "next Iran"?

There are some similarities between these two neighbours that have a shared border that has seen peace for the longest period in world history, apparently. It has been reported that the Turkish-Iranian border has been peaceful longer than any other in the world.

Quite naturally, these countries might share some similarities but also we might expect quite a few dissimilarities between these two countries.

On what basis do you foresee Turkey as the next Iran?

 

[ekemenirtu]

I do not think Turkey is trying to become Iran but something more than that. Iran has enemies the United States, the European Union and NATO without strategic agreements and defense sales to third countries. Turkey is an ally of all these organizations (European Union, USA, NATO) while at the same time trying to become Iran in terms of military independence. Not only has it achieved this, but it is also more autonomous than Iran. What Turkey needs to achieve is Iran's energy independence, which is extremely difficult.

Interesting opinions.

If I may ask, what leads you to believe that Turkey is more autonomous than Iran? I am interested in your opinion. My opinion might be identical or it might be different. Let us hear/read your opinion first.

 

[ekemenirtu]

No majority of the world is heading toward atheism specially Iran. The people are heading toward more right wing and populist policies because of liberalism and leftism but not toward religion or theocracy.

There is no simple majority in the world.

No single religious group, or atheists, alone forms the majority.

No single religious group, other non religious group, is likely to be the majority in the world in the next 10 or 20 years.

 

[ekemenirtu]

This is true. We must keep in mind iran had a glorious history before advent of Islam. Defeat by Arabs and introduction to Islam has left a scar on Persian mind. Add this historical sentiment to the forced Islam y the state on the people - many of whom are now closet athiests has turned many against he mullahs.

This can't go on forever. At some point there will be a soft revolution.

This is interesting and somewhat complicated.

Iran had a glorious civilization but it was by no means the only heir to a grand civilization. The Iraqis, Syrians, Lebanese, Palestinians, Tunisians, Egyptians and many more in the wider Middle Eastern region can lay claims to being heirs to grand civilizations. As we all might be aware of, the region has given birth to the greatest number of ancient, great civilizations.

Moreover, the Greeks or Italians do not object to following distorted versions of a religion said to originate from Palestine. Somehow, a mishmash of assorted European/Caucasus/other origin peoples stretching as far away as Ethiopia or India do not object to following a religion said to be founded in Egypt/Palestine region when the followers were persecuted by the Egyptian Pharaohs.

Iranians also seem to harbour no ill will or grudge against the Mongols who completely ravaged, conquered, devastated, ruled and subjugated them albeit for a relatively short period of time in the grander scheme of things.

The same Iranians seem to harbour not much in the way of ill will against the Americans for their manipulation and subjugation of Iranians through their installed proxy in the form of authoritarian Shah. Likewise, the ill advised coup against former PM Mosaddegh by the Anglo-American axis has not somehow generated the same amount of ill will or animosity in the Iranian leadership or its policy makers against the UK or USA.

Last but not the least, the Russians/Soviets are not the subjects of much ill will from the same bunch even though the Russians basically cut Iran down to size and seized many former Iranian territories and incorporated them into the Soviet sphere. The subsequent brainwashing of the residents of those former Iranian and neighbouring territories is so severe that to this day they remain firmly entrenched in the Russian sphere of influence than in the Iranian sphere of influence, or attuned to the wider Islamic world or aligned with Turkish civilization.

Perhaps, inferiority complex is the source of all this angst. Perhaps, some of them feel that by associating with "superior" Europeans, by undergoing transformative surgeries (such as surgeries on their noses), by appropriating such notions as "Aryan" and propagating them to the wider world, they might be seated on a higher pedestal in the grand scheme of things?

If that is the case, then they would not be alone in doing so. Many other subjugated or defeated peoples, too, exhibit such behaviour. They tend to believe that imitating superficial religious, cultural, linguistic or behavioural patterns of their Western superiors might elevate their status.

If you permit me, then I would call it an affirmation of Western superiority over inferiors. I apologize if any reader felt offended by this description. That was never my intention. The intention was to describe an observation as objectively and as fairly as possible.

 

[ekemenirtu]

I wonder by Pakistanis don’t feel the same or at least some of them admire raja dhahir for nationalistic secular point of view.

There does not appear to be any rational grounds for elevating the status of a rather unremarkable ruler whose only mention in historical records seem to be for oppressing a powerless people. Subsequent measures taken against him turned out to be highly popular amongst the masses from what little I can glean.

 

[FalconSlayersDFI]

Modi has presided over genocide of Muslims in Gujrat and was barred from entry to USA for his role in that massacre. hile Modi was nutruring hate Imran Khan was building hospitals for the poor.

Modi faced allegations of that riots, and you Pakistanis can exaggerate figures like genocide of muslims, yes majority who were killed were muslims but 254 killed were Hindus, is modi responsible? Supreme Court after years of judicial process ruled that Modi was not responsible for the Gujarat riots. I don’t have to remind you who created Taliban that caused the genocide of Afghan muslims, I don’t have to tell you who genocided Bengali muslims.

Since becoming Prime Minister Imran Khan has directed his policies to uplift the poor. Thus far every citizen in Khyber Pakhtunkwa has been provided national health insurance which provides free medical care. The scheme is now being rolled out in Punjab and will be 100% implemented by end of the year.

A social welfare scheme called Ehsaas has been rolled out which provides financial stipend to the poor, the infirm, elderly and widows. This week Naya Pakistan project has been launched which aims to provide government subsidised housing to all the poor in the country. Millions of apartments and houses are being built across the country.

So sorry to blow your bubble but lot more is going on then 'Kashmir'. I would not have posted this here but I am compelled to rebut the propaganda by a member here.

Should I tell you the schemes Modi brought? I’ll run out of ink, but just google Ayushman Bharat, world’s largest healthcare scheme, he built toilets in India to bring sanitation to every home in rural India where many people out of poverty never made toilets. He started make in India, and other schemes amd today we are bearing the fruit.


And I apologise about that post and I had deleted it many days ago minutes after posting it, it resurface from nowhere so it is not my fault.

 

[Nauman Ahmed Patel]

Modi has presided over genocide of Muslims in Gujrat and was barred from entry to USA for his role in that massacre. hile Modi was nutruring hate Imran Khan was building hospitals for the poor.

Even I am a Gujarati Muslim but we still vote for modi for his development done in Gujarat. Majority of the muslims in Gujarat vote for BJP in elections. We don’t buy that crap here that Modi did the riots as he was no way responsible. He even was declared innocent by our supreme court. It is you guys who over exaggerate things for no reason. What happened in Godhra train incident which led to the riots didn’t had anything to do with modi so how did the riots had a relation with modi? What Americans did is their choice and doesn’t prove anything.

 

[Kaptaan]

Even I am a Gujarati Muslim but we still vote for modi for his development done in Gujarat. Majority of the muslims in Gujarat vote for BJP in elections. We don’t buy that crap here that Modi did the riots as he was no way responsible. He even was declared innocent by our supreme court. It is you guys who over exaggerate things for no reason. What happened in Godhra train incident which led to the riots didn’t had anything to do with modi so how did the riots had a relation with modi? What Americans did is their choice and doesn’t prove anything.

Issue of Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi's Visa Status​

Statement by David C. Mulford, U.S. Ambassador to India
Roosevelt House
New Delhi, India
March 21, 2005

Mr. Modi's existing tourist/business visa was also revoked under section 212 (a) (2) (g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act. Section 212 (a) (2) (g) makes any foreign government official who "was responsible for or directly carried out, at any time, particularly severe violations of religious freedom" ineligible for a visa to the United States.

The Ministry of External Affairs requested that the Department of State review the decision to revoke his tourist/business visa. Upon review, the State Department re-affirmed the original decision.

This decision applies to Mr. Narendra Modi only. It is based on the fact that, as head of the State government in Gujarat between February 2002 and May 2002, he was responsible for the performance of state institutions at that time. The State Department's detailed views on this matter are included in its annual Country Reports on Human Rights Practices and the International Religious Freedom Report. Both reports document the violence in Gujarat from February 2002 to May 2002 and cite the Indian National Human Rights Commission report, which states there was "a comprehensive failure on the part of the state government to control the persistent violation of rights of life, liberty, equality, and dignity of the people of the state."

Issue of Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi's Visa Status

2001-2009.state.gov

 

[Nilgiri]

Indian members are advised to not respond/quote to personal subjective ad-hominem against country leaders.

It is against forum rules and will be dealt with.

We hold our supreme court and its investigation team process and procedures extremely much higher than places that have had both military coups/regimes....but also regimes that participated in undeniable mass scale atrocities (known as genocide by their victims today in former East Pakistan).

 

[Raptor]

Modi faced allegations of that riots, and you Pakistanis can exaggerate figures like genocide of muslims, yes majority who were killed were muslims but 254 killed were Hindus, is modi responsible? Supreme Court after years of judicial process ruled that Modi was not responsible for the Gujarat riots. I don’t have to remind you who created Taliban that caused the genocide of Afghan muslims, I don’t have to tell you who genocided Bengali muslims.


Should I tell you the schemes Modi brought? I’ll run out of ink, but just google Ayushman Bharat, world’s largest healthcare scheme, he built toilets in India to bring sanitation to every home in rural India where many people out of poverty never made toilets. He started make in India, and other schemes amd today we are bearing the fruit.


And I apologise about that post and I had deleted it many days ago minutes after posting it, it resurface from nowhere so it is not my fault.

Why are you wasting your time on such people man they won't change their opinion.
Save your time!

 

[Foulgrim]

Interesting opinions.

If I may ask, what leads you to believe that Turkey is more autonomous than Iran? I am interested in your opinion. My opinion might be identical or it might be different. Let us hear/read your opinion first.

Both countries are extremely valuable to the great powers (USA, China, Russia). But Turkey has some strong advantages over Iran, which are:
- Turkic minorities in dozens of countries that Turkey uses to exert geopolitical pressure.
- Technological leaps (not steps) in the defense industry
- Turkey manages the largest trafficking of black money in the world with the result that geopolitical opponents do not know its economic figures (GDP)
- Turkey has a geographical location that connects Europe and Asia with trade passing through Anatolia
- Historically Anatolia was a geographical piece of land that all empires wanted to own (Roman Empire, Macedonian Empire, Persian Empire, Ottoman Empire, Russian Empire, etc.)
Turkey can get along well with Russia-China and at the same time have geostrategic agreements with NATO member states while it is also a member state! Can Iran get along well with NATO member states and Russia-China at the same time? Definitely not.