Live Conflict Israel-Palestine War|Regional Escalations

[Relic]

One has rockets and the other side has capabilities to carpet bomb a city.

No comparsion at all.

Palestinians dont have tanks, fighter jets, nukes or even drones.

Just to cross into Israel they had to use primitive paragliders. Even if Hamas took the border crossing they still had to give it up and withdraw.

How often are modern wars fought between sides with the same technology and military capability?

Genuine question. Why would Hamas attack Israel, knowing that the response from the Israelis would be swift and severe, unless they simply see the people of Palestine (who they are supposed to represent politically) as disposable pawns? Let's be honest, the power brokers in the region hate that Saudi Arabia and Israel were normalizing relations, so they had Hamas launch an attack on Israel, prompting a predictably harsh Israeli response, causing the Saudis to back away from the talks with tbe Jewish state. In the process, Hamas and the power brokers that fund them, knowingly signed the death certificates of hundreds (if not thousands) of Palestinian civilians that would surely be killed in Israeli air strikes.

We can agree that the conditions Israel has helped enforce on Gaza are deplorable and desperately in need of a humane solution. But we SHOULD also agree (although somehow I don't you will) that Hamas knew that their actions would deeply escalate the tensions between the two actors and would lead to many innocent Palestinian and Israeli civilians being killed.

The inability of some to condem actions by both parties, simply because of a power imbalance, is head shaking.

 

[Relic]

Yeah the problem is now the Germans are no longer being blamed its either the Nazis or the ones who inspired the Nazis.

Lets look into Martin Luther's anti semitic writings, scientific racism, lebensraum, herero genocide done by German colonial forces.

Hitler did not choose to kill Jews alongside Slavs overnight.

Germans nowadays find it really convient to wash their hands and say its either the Nazis or the Nazis were inspired by the Turks.

Lots of people want to excuse their actions. Make no mistake about it, us Westerners, the ones who actually won the war, place blame firmly on Germany and their associates. I have 2 university degrees, in European history and political science, as well as a Masters degree in international affairs. Never in all of my studies did I encounter somebody that blamed Turkish people for the Holocaust. That's an insane position.

That would be like Canadians blaming Mexicans for the extermination of the Native Americans. Nope. We did it. I'm not proud of it, but we are guilty of it and must own it.

 

[Era_shield]

“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” Netanyahu told his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019. “This is part of our strategy"

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1711329340804186619

Another concept implodes: Israel can’t be managed by a criminal defendant

***

www.haaretz.com

I wonder who would not want the establishment of the country? They are groups are useful idiots of the land thieves.

Everyone should know about this

I think it's pretty clear now that Hamas wasn't only created with the help of Israel but that Israel still controls them. That explains why Hamas would conduct such a strategically counter-productive attack, how Israel's spies didn't know, why they were allowed to get through all the security systems, why the venue for the dance party was changed 2 days before, and why Israel ignored warnings from Egypt that it was about to happen, which has now been confirmed by the US:

Egypt warned Israel days before Hamas struck, US committee chairman says​

Israel was warned by Egypt of potential violence three days before Hamas' deadly cross-border raid, a US congressional panel chairman has said.

House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee head Michael McCaul told reporters of the alleged warning.

Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu described the reports as "absolutely false".
Israeli intelligence services are under scrutiny for their failure to prevent the deadliest attack by Palestinian militants in Israel's 75-year history.
"We know that Egypt has warned the Israelis three days prior that an event like this could happen," Mr McCaul told reporters following a closed-door intelligence briefing on Wednesday for lawmakers about the Middle East crisis, according to AFP news agency.

"I don't want to get too much into classified, but a warning was given," the Texas Republican added. "I think the question was at what level."

An Egyptian intelligence official told the Associated Press news agency this week that Cairo had repeatedly warned the Israelis "something big" was being planned from Gaza.

"We have warned them an explosion of the situation is coming, and very soon, and it would be big. But they underestimated such warnings," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
The Cairo official said Israeli officials had played down the threat from Gaza, instead focusing on the West Bank.

Sir Alex Younger, who served as chief of the UK's foreign intelligence agency between 2014 and 2020, said Hamas fighters were able to carry out their attack on 7 October due to "institutional complacency" in Israel.
He told BBC Radio 4's Today Podcast there may have been an assumption by Israel that Hamas was not interested in a new conflict, so any information that contradicted that was discounted.
"It is my assumption - though I'm not on the inside - that there would be data breaking through that could have been interpreted differently and certainly would be with hindsight," he said.
He added that complacency could have been compounded by an over-reliance on technological means to monitor Gaza, leading to a false sense of security.
According to the Financial Times, quoting two unnamed officials familiar with the matter, there was no hard intelligence of a specific attack.
On Wednesday, Mr Netanyahu described any suggestion that Israel had received a specific warning in advance of the deadly incursion as "totally fake news".

 

[Ravager]

I wonder one thing about all the fanboys in here that passionately support one side and spit hate on the other... How can you support this bloodshed and all the atrocities committed on civilians by both sides. How can anyone be happy that this cycle of violence and hate is never going to end because with the current way of "solving" the problems it isn't.

You are all crazy.

Please , find me of my post that i condone the action of indiscrimate killings . I only support palestine's cause never the actors . Just because i potrayed the possible repercussion of what was happening ...suddenly i was put at the Hamas camp ?? Not to mention on my heavily mod's redaction on every post while other get away with an insult and denigration ....

Seriously you people ... Just call spade as spade will you

You can support Hamas all day you want but that doesn't change the ground reality of atrocities on civilians. If Hamas would've stuck to attacking military personnel, be it male or female...the world wouldn't have turned against them

I'm not saying Israel is a saint here and they had their share of wrongdoings but nothing of this scale. This is similar to what US perceives 9/11 or at a significantly larger scale to India's 26/11

No , you not calling them saint . You are simply saying their action were " justified " while demonizing other who are basically doing the same . simply because the action of your championed cause doesn't get publisized et masse ...


I had enough with all of these hypocrisy acts and words jugling . One way or another ...we will come . If the Arabs and turks doesn't beat us first then their south east asians brothers will do . Even if we have to go alone for it ..


In this jum'at mubarak . I reiterate this promise once again ...

We will come ..

 

[Ryder]

If anyone is wondering why the anglo-american world is so connected to zionist ambitions they should start by learning about British-Isrealism.

Most Zionists on earth are Christian and the majority of Christian Zionists are found in the USA/UK.

British Israelism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/british-israelites

The ideology they believe is unsubstantiated bullshit, no more then a pack of lies, but be aware that many christians will shill for Isreal because of their zionist beliefs. But they will never reveal to you that they are pro zionist except that all of their actions aid in it.

The links are just to get you started, there are some good books written on the subject.

Israel was literally supported by most European nations as they believed as the Jews get their own homeland or state.

Jews from Europe will start to leave enmass. European nations in general did not want Jews in their own countries.

The thing is they all put Jews into a monolithic state not realising how diverse they are. A Bukharan Jew who has lived in Bukhara for centuries will be asking why should I leave when I lived here for centuries.

Shepardic Jews tend to have really good relations with Turks and North Africans as most Shepardic Jews migrated to the Ottoman Empire and North Africa.

Many also became naval captains in the Barbary coasts.

 

[chibiyabi]

One has rockets and the other side has capabilities to carpet bomb a city.

No comparsion at all.

Palestinians dont have tanks, fighter jets, nukes or even drones.

Just to cross into Israel they had to use primitive paragliders. Even if Hamas took the border crossing they still had to give it up and withdraw.

with that consideration, its should be ask to hamas and his allies inside or outside palestina, why they keep the same approach, using physic, military resistance, rather than the way that Yasser Arafat already choose in last part of his life. with current approach, hamas just sacrifice palestinian people. and make israel easier to handle (and i believe this is the israel gov actualy want), just use carpet bombing. Diplomacy always harder to face, human mind always dinamicaly chance, especialy when provided with unedited reality like when it came from social media.

 

[TabmachineV2]

Human Rights Watch: White Phosphorus Used in Gaza, Lebanon

....
Human Rights Watch reviewed the video and verified that it was taken in Gaza City’s port and identified that the munitions used in the strike were airburst 155mm white phosphorus artillery projectiles. Other videos posted to social media and verified by Human Rights Watch show the same location. Dense white smoke and a garlic smell are characteristics of white phosphorus.
....
Upon contact, white phosphorus can burn people, thermally and chemically, down to the bone as it is highly soluble in fat and therefore in human flesh. White phosphorus fragments can exacerbate wounds even after treatment and can enter the bloodstream and cause multiple organ failure. Already dressed wounds can reignite when dressings are removed and the wounds are re-exposed to oxygen. Even relatively minor burns are often fatal. For survivors, extensive scarring tightens muscle tissue and creates physical disabilities. The trauma of the attack, the painful treatment that follows, and appearance-changing scars lead to psychological harm and social exclusion.

The use of white phosphorus in densely populated areas of Gaza violates the requirement under international humanitarian law to take all feasible precautions to avoid civilian injury and loss of life, Human Rights Watch said. This concern is amplified given the technique evidenced in videos of airbursting white phosphorus projectiles. Airbursting of white phosphorus projectiles spreads 116 burning felt wedges impregnated within the substance over an area between 125 and 250 meters in diameter, depending on the altitude of the burst, thereby exposing more civilians and civilian structures to potential harm than a localized ground burst.

 

[Ryder]

with that consideration, its should be ask to hamas and his allies inside or outside palestina, why they keep the same approach, using physic, military resistance, rather than the way that Yasser Arafat already choose in last part of his life. with current approach, hamas just sacrifice palestinian people. and make israel easier to handle (and i believe this is the israel gov actualy want), just use carpet bombing. Diplomacy always harder to face, human mind always dinamicaly chance, especialy when provided with unedited reality like when it came from social media.

Hamas is a effectively a proxy group.

Dont expect them to fight smart. Because they are easily expendable.

Palestinians are better off throwing Iranian influence. Palestinians are majority Sunnis and the Ayatollahs see them as expendables for Iranian interests.

 

[Saithan]

Undoubtedly, the United States will help ensure that they don't run low on ordinance, especially if a group like Hezbollah decides to jump into the conflict.

That said, for as much ordinance as they've already dropped on Gaza, they're doing a fairly good job of keeping civilian casualties low when you factor in the density of the city and the fact that Hamas ties their military operations into residential areas. A less capable air force might have killed 5000 civilians by now, but Israel has some excellent precision weapons. JDAMS, PGMS and GBUs of numerous types.

Gaza is build up of mainly concrete, marble, stone/rock.

If the same amount of ordnance had been thrown on any other city the whole thing would have burnt down due to the amount of wood, and other constructions materials that are flamable.

I shared this in Cay Bahcesi as I didn't have time to translate it, but I think it's a pretty decent view on things.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1711900946429575561

Former commander of the 58th Army of the Russian Southern Military District and DUMA deputy Andrey Gurulev: The current Palestinian-Israeli conflict in the Middle East has many distinctive features.

Its main aspect is moral and psychological. Israelis and Arabs view each other as terrorists—everyone, without exception—military personnel, men, women, children. They have no regrets. They take pleasure in killing each other.

Netanyahu still needs to decide on a ground operation. We all see images of Israeli bombs hitting their targets, buildings collapsing, and people running away. But if you pay attention, there is a crater there, but the nearby buildings are still standing. It was built as a single piece in this region.

The tank columns we see now are deep in Israel. If they were near Gaza they would have been burned by drones long ago.

Heavy equipment is completely ineffective in such an urban environment. The Israelis will have to go as assault troops and infantry, inflicting serious losses on the Israeli army

Please note that there are almost no fires even after major bombings. There is no wood in the daily life of Arabs; there is nothing to burn: stone floors, stone walls, iron furniture, even kitchen cabinets and shelves are made of marble. If there were similar attacks, half of the block would be burned.

There is a serious underground communication network in Gaza. We all experienced this in Eastern Ghouta and other settlements. SAR, we saw ISIS fighters. There are huge reserves of material resources in these tunnels; Even cars move there. This is the ability to maneuver along the entire front, to reach the rear of advancing enemy troops. Israelis know this. Are they ready for this? The losses will be insane.

Israel mobilized a reasonable number of people; approximately 10% of the working population. There is also industry, but people are separated from their jobs, and the state has to survive somehow. If there is a land operation, there will be losses. New waves of mobilization will need to be undertaken to fill existing and temporary shortages.

Who said Syria, Turkey and Egypt would stay on the sidelines? The US and Israel say Iran has nothing to do with this incident; They understand that if Iran intervenes, at least through Hezbollah (an extremely powerful, highly motivated organization) that openly follows the trends of modern warfare, this will cause unacceptable harm. Of course, if it flares up in the Middle East, there will be nothing left of Israel, despite the aircraft carriers trying to raise smoke in the Mediterranean. Iran can destroy aircraft with an efficiency of 0.99.

Israel's survival may be in danger. Potentially, Israel is a second Ukraine, in the sense that over time it will lose its industry, rely on foreign donations, and fight to the last citizen. Will the situation develop like this? Time will show us. Nobody is ready for negotiations today; There are no conditions. No one can name their conditions. Another failure of the United States is in this region.

 

[TabmachineV2]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1640719743773560836

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712507227301376155

Max Blumenthal is a great commentator on this topic. Given the origins of Hamas and the unbelievable intelligence blindness to their plan, given the disregard for the egyptian notifications, I would say there is a very strong possibility this is all one big israeli-us coordinated intel op to advance regional interests / motivate another profitable war.

 

[UkroTurk]

Best example Why democracy should be protected with forbids.

If you don't protect your right someone could come and remove your add.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712534459264938124

 

[Afif]

How often are modern wars fought between sides with the same technology and military capability?

Genuine question. Why would Hamas attack Israel, knowing that the response from the Israelis would be swift and severe, unless they simply see the people of Palestine (who they are supposed to represent politically) as disposable pawns? Let's be honest, the power brokers in the region hate that Saudi Arabia and Israel were normalizing relations, so they had Hamas launch an attack on Israel, prompting a predictably harsh Israeli response, causing the Saudis to back away from the talks with tbe Jewish state. In the process, Hamas and the power brokers that fund them, knowingly signed the death certificates of hundreds (if not thousands) of Palestinian civilians that would surely be killed in Israeli air strikes.

Initially it looks like that Iran angle is not valid anymore, as US intelligence is saying that, there is no evidence of direct Iranian involvement and even Iranian leaders were surprised by the attack.

And I think I am gonna take their assesment.

But yeah, I can agree that foiling KSA-Israeli normalization played a role into Hamas calculations.

Becuase, such normalization would have been detrimental for Palestinian state dream.

However, this is incorrect to say that Hamas sees Palestinian people as disposable pawn. Nope. It just cost of doing business. Except on a strategic level, this business is very much an existential one for both Hamas and Palestinians.

Listen from 15:00

Window of opportunity was closing, and it was effectively closing forever.
If I was Hamas, I would have done the exact same thing. (With less civilians casualties and san rape of course)

Territorial gain is should always be prioritized over human cost. You population will reproduce themselves rapidly. But once you effectively loose a Territory it is unlikely you will get it back in 50 years or more.

This is a desperate strategic gamble on Hamas's side, but a necessity one.
If Israeli ground offensive fails to elemenate Hamas, then we can say more or less they won the gamble.

You despite having two degrees making judgments too early.

 

[Era_shield]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1640719743773560836

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712507227301376155

Max Blumenthal is a great commentator on this topic. Given the origins of Hamas and the unbelievable intelligence blindness to their plan, given the disregard for the egyptian notifications, I would say there is a very strong possibility this is all one big israeli-us coordinated intel op to advance regional interests / motivate another profitable war.

If they were trying to start a war with Iran I don't think Israel and the US would have denied Iranian involvement in the Hamas attack. In fact I'd say they want Iran to stay out of it and just leave them to raze Gaza to the ground and take it for themselves once and for all.

Edit: and I just saw this:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712748355808350519

 

[Bozan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712586514863984857

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1711442205817053350

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Aid from Turkey and Jordan has arrived in Egypt. Now we will wait, and see if Israel is gonna keep its words regarding bombing any aid entering Gaza.

 

[Ryder]

Aid from Turkey and Jordan has arrived in Egypt. Now we will wait, and see if Israel is gonna keep its words regarding bombing any aid entering Gaza.

Too bad no peacekeepers.

The thing is Hamas cant be trusted either.

 

[RMZN]

Too bad no peacekeepers.

The thing is Hamas cant be trusted either.

There is absolutely nothing to gain from getting involved into this conflict, except for Erdogan to use it as fuel for his political image. Playing mediator also wont yield any results this time, because Israels objectives are pretty clear and they dont involve any negotiating

 

[No Name]

https://www.reddit.com/r/azerbaijan/comments/176pokg
This shows that Hamas killed one Turkish citizen and potentially kidnapped the other, Türkiye should send any aid to any one that harms Turks.

 

[Afif]

https://www.reddit.com/r/azerbaijan/comments/176pokg
This shows that Hamas killed one Turkish citizen and potentially kidnapped the other, Türkiye should send any aid to any one that harms Turks.

In case you have comprehension issue, let me break it down for you.
Türkiye or for that matter any country is not sending aid to f**king Hamas.
They are sending aid so that, numbers of children and women dying from Israeli bombardment can be reduced in Gaza hospitals.

 

[Gary]

I see a lot of commentary pointing HAMAS use of violence is to the detriment of the Palestinian civilians.

Back in the Indonesian war of Independence, Indonesian people's security force (BKR) would launch sneak attack on Dutch position, only to retreat back to their hideouts, usually in the nearest civilian village (kampung). They kept on doing this in cycles, and the Dutch, frustrated in their failure to stem these attacks started massacring civilian settlements, the most infamous was the Rawagede Massacre.

Rawagede massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Almost all males from the village, amounting to 431 men according to most estimates, were killed by the Royal Netherlands East Indies Army, since the people of the village would not tell them where the Indonesian independence fighter Lukas Kustaryo [id] was hiding.

Very similar to the way the Israeli doing now in Gaza, trying to find justifications for killing civilians because they're shit at their job.

Had the BKR shared the same mentality with some of the members (including some Indonesians) here advocating the abandonment of military violence and embracing a peaceful process, Indonesia would never have gained its independence.

Yes, I know it will be hard for the Palestinian civilians, but they need to understand the short pain they endure now, IF they keep on fighting will be to their advantage in the long run.

War is always preferred to peace, even more so when there's simply nothing to lose. The Palestinian Gazans are half dead people at this point with no water, food and energy AND most importantly they will be killed anyway once the Israelis are in.

So why not choose death while carrying the sword AK-47? instead of death in an Israeli hostage/prison camp ? Aren't the Palestinian muslims? if Yes, please know that in Islam, your death date is already determined, your life will not be extended even you try to find safety nor will it be diminished by you jumping into danger.