Live Conflict Israel-Palestine War|Regional Escalations

YeşilVatan

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Prophecy time:

US is going to hit Iran backed militia in Syria, and they will utilize PKK/YPG to do some legwork. And some shia militias hitting americans in jordan is going to be our problem.

This geography is too much...
 

Gary

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Gary

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There are mainly two branches of the PKK/YPG. Without entering much details, the PKK/YPG on the west of Euphrates are acting in coordination with Assad under Russian protection.

PKK/YPG tries to ensure the future of the organization by playing with both US and Russia. Their plan after a possible US withdrawal is an integration as a part of the SAA under some level of autonomy. No need to mention that a big part of their oil revenue is by illgal oil export to Assad. Assad also needs this oil as there is a deepening oil crisis in Syrian Government controlled areas.
I'm aware of that, but it's ridiculous if Russia actually allows such to move forward, once the Americans are completely out of NES, I could see Assad demanding full control of the areas now currently under the YPG and abandonment of their Kurdish state aspirations, in turn, the Kurds will likely either:

1. Reject and fight (and get annihilated)
2. cower down and accept full Damascus sovereignty

My pick is option 1, because there's no way they just accepted the end of their aspirations to create Rojava after many years of fighting, cheating and forcing such ideas.
 

contricusc

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9. United Kingdom and Scotland
Scotland is part of the United Kingdom. It is not a separate entity.

”The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, commonly known as the United Kingdom (UK) or Britain, is a country in Northwestern Europe, off the north-western coast of the continental mainland. It comprises England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. It includes the island of Great Britain, the north-eastern part of the island of Ireland, and most of the smaller islands within the British Isles.” - Wikipedia
 

Gary

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Scotland is part of the United Kingdom. It is not a separate entity.

”The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, commonly known as the United Kingdom (UK) or Britain, is a country in Northwestern Europe, off the north-western coast of the continental mainland. It comprises England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. It includes the island of Great Britain, the north-eastern part of the island of Ireland, and most of the smaller islands within the British Isles.” - Wikipedia

I put the blame on the AlJazeera team

Screenshot 2024-01-29 062623.png


 

Sanchez

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Scotland is part of the United Kingdom. It is not a separate entity.
It has its own government, laws and budget which it gives aid to UN orgs from. UK gov can cut off aid, while Scot gov may not. Scotland being its own country is 1 referandum away anyhow.
 

Relic

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This isn't realistic.
Not in the long term, but it certainly is in the short term it is, if you're goal is to make a point. There are some juicy targets in both Iran and Syria, where America could unleash some horrendous death and destruction over the next couple of days if they wanted to.

Palestine is a reasonable comparison. Undeniably, the death toll is extremely tilted in favour of Israel. The Americans are substantially more powerful and capable than Israel. If they wanted to send a message from the sea and from the the air, they could absolutely pick a target in Syria, Lebanon, Iran or Yemen and unleash horrendous death in response to the death of their service personnel. My contention is not that they will, but that they could.
 

Relic

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I put the blame on the AlJazeera team

View attachment 65132

Great... The World's welfare project is complaining that we won't fund them after they turned turned our aid money into homemade rockets to attack their neighbours with.

Sounds like money well saved to me!
 

Sanchez

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if you're goal is to make a point.
That point would be "we're hurt." This region has enough men willing to die for their ideologies or religions. An outsized US response would only lead to more retaliations from the other side against GCC, against Israel, against Turkey and against US soldiers stationed all over the region. As we saw today, not all US bases have comprehensive AA cover. US strikes can easily kill thousands, but are they willing to lose 100-150 more soldiers next week over it?

 

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Not in the long term, but it certainly is in the short term it is, if you're goal is to make a point. There are some juicy targets in both Iran and Syria, where America could unleash some horrendous death and destruction over the next couple of days if they wanted to.

Palestine is a reasonable comparison. Undeniably, the death toll is extremely tilted in favour of Israel. The Americans are substantially more powerful and capable than Israel. If they wanted to send a message from the sea and from the the air, they could absolutely pick a target in Syria, Lebanon, Iran or Yemen and unleash horrendous death in response to the death of their service personnel. My contention is not that they will, but that they could.


The reason such 'horrendus death unleashing' won't work with Iran because then it will throw the kitchen sink. And it simply has the ability to overwhelm the local American defenses. Which will result in significant destruction of US interests across the region. Then USA will have no choice but to launch a full scale war on Iran. Which isn't worth it over 3 dead Americans.
 

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This isn't realistic.

Let him keep dreaming a bit will you bruh .... It's hillarious and entertaining at a time .
This is unprecedented situation right now . Not even trump could preserve US troops presence for long . When they lashed out and make a bombing round to all the belligerent . They only emboldened the militias and gave a justification for the angry masses regarding a future attack against all of US interest in the region ..
When Israel were out of reach and suddenly a perfect target popped out in their neighbourhood ... Where else you should point your gun to ?? Easy answer for me ..
 

Gary

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Great... The World's welfare project is complaining that we won't fund them after they turned turned our aid money into homemade rockets to attack their neighbours with.

Sounds like money well saved to me!

I mean yeah if it's as simplistic as that I'm fine with that as well.

It's not like your country and the West has something to do with Palestinians becoming refugees in their own land because you guys put your weight behind the robber (israel) and in return, you gave Palestinians a little money to justify the robbery of their land.

The Ukrainian experience has shown just how injustice will come back and bite you. Be prepared for that day because just like I enjoy taunting the Ukrainians now, I'll enjoy taunting anyone who stands with oppression today when their time comes. Ukraine would never imagine that less than 20 years after their participation in the Iraqi occupation, their country will be occupied and people comes up with 10000 reason to justify their oppression.

Your time will come soon enough, don't worry.
 
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Relic

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I mean yeah if it's as simplistic as that I'm fine with that as well.

It's not like your country and the West has something to do with Palestinians becoming refugees in their own land because you guys put your weight behind the robber (israel) and in return, you gave Palestinians a little money to justify the robbery of their land.

The Ukrainian experience has shown just how injustice will come back and bite you. Be prepared for that day because just like I enjoy taunting the Ukrainians now, I'll enjoy taunting anyone who stands with oppression today when their time comes. Ukraine would never imagine that less than 20 years after their participation in the Iraqi occupation, their country will be occupied and people comes up with 10000 reason to justify their oppression.

Your time will come soon enough, don't worry.
Palestinians get the highest per capita amount of aid of any nation / people in the world. Had they spent that money well from 2006 / 2007 onwards when Israel left Gaza and turned governing authority over to the winners of the election in Gaza (which turned out to be HAMAS), we wouldn't be in this situation. Instead, much of that money was stolen and used to purchase / create weapons and to fund Hamas' grip over Gaza.

Undoubtedly, the West has supported Israel, but over the last 15-20 years there has been no shortage of financial support for Palestianians, especially those in Gaza. But many of the societal problems that they face, that could have been solved by Western funding, persist because HAMAS wants the population disgruntled and impoverished.

We face the same problems on our "aboriginal reserves" in North America. Reserve leadership often steals or re-purposes the immense funding our governments give them, so that the people that live there remain impoverished, drug addicted, disgruntled and hopeless and the funding cycle is forced to exist in perpetuity.

Had Palestinians risen up, ousted HAMAS, and used international funding to work towards becoming a thriving community, I would have all the empathy in the world for them. Instead, they went along with HAMAS, turned much of that funding into weapons to fight Israel, while the rest sits in the pockets of HAMAS leadership that live lavishly in places like Qatar while the populous they govern suffers.
 

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Palestinians get the highest per capita amount of aid of any nation / people in the world. Had they spent that money well from 2006 / 2007 onwards when Israel left Gaza and turned governing authority over to the winners of the election in Gaza (which turned out to be HAMAS), we wouldn't be in this situation. Instead, much of that money was stolen and used to purchase / create weapons and to fund Hamas' grip over Gaza.

Undoubtedly, the West has supported Israel, but over the last 15-20 years there has been no shortage of financial support for Palestianians, especially those in Gaza. But many of the societal problems that they face, that could have been solved by Western funding, persist because HAMAS wants the population disgruntled and impoverished.

We face the same problems on our "aboriginal reserves" in North America. Reserve leadership often steals or re-purposes the immense funding our governments give them, so that the people that live there remain impoverished, drug addicted, disgruntled and hopeless and the funding cycle is forced to exist in perpetuity.

Had Palestinians risen up, ousted HAMAS, and used international funding to work towards becoming a thriving community, I would have all the empathy in the world for them. Instead, they went along with HAMAS, turned much of that funding into weapons to fight Israel, while the rest sits in the pockets of HAMAS leadership that live lavishly in places like Qatar while the populous they govern suffers.

Before i am responded to this ...let us get the fact clear here ...
Do you realized that all the money trickled down to the gazan populace is through the Israel financial institution right ?? Which in other words ...all the money flow were controlled by Israel ..
 

Nilgiri

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Palestinians get the highest per capita amount of aid of any nation / people in the world. Had they spent that money well from 2006 / 2007 onwards when Israel left Gaza and turned governing authority over to the winners of the election in Gaza (which turned out to be HAMAS), we wouldn't be in this situation. Instead, much of that money was stolen and used to purchase / create weapons and to fund Hamas' grip over Gaza.

Undoubtedly, the West has supported Israel, but over the last 15-20 years there has been no shortage of financial support for Palestianians, especially those in Gaza. But many of the societal problems that they face, that could have been solved by Western funding, persist because HAMAS wants the population disgruntled and impoverished.

We face the same problems on our "aboriginal reserves" in North America. Reserve leadership often steals or re-purposes the immense funding our governments give them, so that the people that live there remain impoverished, drug addicted, disgruntled and hopeless and the funding cycle is forced to exist in perpetuity.

Had Palestinians risen up, ousted HAMAS, and used international funding to work towards becoming a thriving community, I would have all the empathy in the world for them. Instead, they went along with HAMAS, turned much of that funding into weapons to fight Israel, while the rest sits in the pockets of HAMAS leadership that live lavishly in places like Qatar while the populous they govern suffers.

It is far more complicated dynamic than that.

The victor vs vanquished part of the equation really is something metaphysical in the end, there is not much to explore in objective domain.

It is part of reason I rarely visit this thread, there is nothing really left for me to learn or contribute in meaningful way. I have both Israeli and Palestinian friends (including the specific fora both sides created here in Canada to parley and discuss things like the oslo accords at depth in whichever measure of good faith long term, that is now really lies shattered entirely, so maybe I will see where things stand like 40 years later at least if I'm still around).

I know what the deep issue really is, but it really can't be put into words in the end without sounding biased to one side. You try to be fair to both, you end up being unfair to both. These are lives and families and histories in the end....it cannot be substituted if you are not part of it close up.

So a lot gets missed in translation, misses crucial context and detail....and really the war just goes on and on far longer than it ever needed to in the end.

I've talked to ex-LTTE people here (or those very close to them) here. There's upsetting things they only say in Tamil, an outsider would never understand it....even I have difficulty (certainly with any logical rationalisation). Its all lived experience related, espeially when you are vanquished and not the victor.

Seems strange and odd to everyone else, but the SL-LTTE civil war went on way too long on this one too because once you're in it, you're in it to win. Nothing substitutes for winning...nothing at all. Peace only exists in hindsight, because you never know when its time again. There's things that you sacrificed that become a complete utter waste, so its just not done, reconciliation dishonours the martyrs and your own folk, meaning, purpose all of it.

So how you actually make peace is something quite nasty and brutal in the end (it means injustices allowed to sit in stasis). It never comes spontaneously in enough degree for both when theres victor and vanquished situation. You have to make lines where one starts and the other ends (e.g Greek - Turk)....or one has to win completely (US - Japan)....and then you give centuries of time for generations to forget about justice missed.....so whole new generations with other things on their mind make things more passable slowly.

But this hasn't happened here. A quasi purgatory kind of situation has evolved in a tiny area with an immense amount of negative psyche relative to it.
 

Relic

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It is far more complicated dynamic than that.

The victor vs vanquished part of the equation really is something metaphysical in the end, there is not much to explore in objective domain.

It is part of reason I rarely visit this thread, there is nothing really left for me to learn or contribute in meaningful way. I have both Israeli and Palestinian friends (including the specific fora both sides created here in Canada to parley and discuss things like the oslo accords at depth in whichever measure of good faith long term, that is now really lies shattered entirely, so maybe I will see where things stand like 40 years later at least if I'm still around).

I know what the deep issue really is, but it really can't be put into words in the end without sounding biased to one side. You try to be fair to both, you end up being unfair to both. These are lives and families and histories in the end....it cannot be substituted if you are not part of it close up.

So a lot gets missed in translation, misses crucial context and detail....and really the war just goes on and on far longer than it ever needed to in the end.

I've talked to ex-LTTE people here (or those very close to them) here. There's upsetting things they only say in Tamil, an outsider would never understand it....even I have difficulty (certainly with any logical rationalisation). Its all lived experience related, espeially when you are vanquished and not the victor.

Seems strange and odd to everyone else, but the SL-LTTE civil war went on way too long on this one too because once you're in it, you're in it to win. Nothing substitutes for winning...nothing at all. Peace only exists in hindsight, because you never know when its time again. There's things that you sacrificed that become a complete utter waste, so its just not done, reconciliation dishonours the martyrs and your own folk, meaning, purpose all of it.

So how you actually make peace is something quite nasty and brutal in the end (it means injustices allowed to sit in stasis). It never comes spontaneously in enough degree for both when theres victor and vanquished situation. You have to make lines where one starts and the other ends (e.g Greek - Turk)....or one has to win completely (US - Japan)....and then you give centuries of time for generations to forget about justice missed.....so whole new generations with other things on their mind make things more passable slowly.

But this hasn't happened here. A quasi purgatory kind of situation has evolved in a tiny area with an immense amount of negative psyche relative to it.
History has shown us this reality over and over. It is completely unreasonable to expect the inevitable winner a conflict to capitulate and negotiate favorable conditions for the inevitable loser of a conflict. As we saw with both Germany and Japan in WWII and the Ottoman Empire in WWI, the best way to protect your populous and keep your country from being savagedly destroyed, is to surrender unconditionally and go to the negotiating table with the winning combatant, in good faith, understanding that as the loser in the conflict you are going to have to accept conditions that won't be ideal for you, but will achieve peace.

HAMAS / Palestine should surrender unconditionally, tomorrow, agree to negotiate a peace deal with Israel in good faith and bring in the international community to help broker the deal, while negotiating in international protections. They could then spend the coming years normalizing relations with Israel and working on being neighbours that co-habitate in a two state solution, sharing what amounts to complicated geography.

Of course none of that will happen because Palestinians still have the will to fight, and nobody with a reasonable brain cell in their body expects Israel to be the one that requests the negotiating table, when they have the leverage and power.
 

Gary

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Palestinians get the highest per capita amount of aid of any nation / people in the world. Had they spent that money well from 2006 / 2007 onwards when Israel left Gaza and turned governing authority over to the winners of the election in Gaza (which turned out to be HAMAS), we wouldn't be in this situation. Instead, much of that money was stolen and used to purchase / create weapons and to fund Hamas' grip over Gaza.

Oh no HAHA...they get the highest per capita aid, the West must be a bunch of angels 😂 😂

Maybe some questions needed to be floated out first:

  1. Why do they need aid in the first place? Maybe something to do with the fact that they're persecuted in their own land ? Where they got no say with the economic opportunity in their very own land which they inhibit long before they were a country called israel which BTW while backed by the West imposed severe restrictions where Palestinians can't even have utilise the use on their water reservoir/resource ?
  2. Where is that aid going ? Last time I checked, Israel is regularly withholding those aid
  3. Because there's a very huge aid per capita, life in Gaza must be rich, where everybody is well fed like DJ Khaled and where the population doesn't live on diet that the Israelis regularly imposed
  4. Now that we know they get a lot of aid, life must be pretty rich and plenty for Palestinians, it's just that most of them regularly end up behind bars without charge or crime and they got no way to 'experience' aid money while being locked up for crimes they didn't commit
Of course, none of this came you through your head before writing your long excuse, but I'm not expecting anything less. The funny thing about this is just how things eventually turn around, just like in Ukraine.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

And its even funnier watching people like @contricusc calling my writing in the Ukraine war thread as 'disgusting' when all I did is imitate the West and their perception on things. Only @Fuzuli NL gets my joke right lel
 

Relic

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Oh no HAHA...they get the highest per capita aid, the West must be a bunch of angels 😂 😂

Maybe some questions needed to be floated out first:

  1. Why do they need aid in the first place? Maybe something to do with the fact that they're persecuted in their own land ? Where they got no say with the economic opportunity in their very own land which they inhibit long before they were a country called israel which BTW while backed by the West imposed severe restrictions where Palestinians can't even have utilise the use on their water reservoir/resource ?
  2. Where is that aid going ? Last time I checked, Israel is regularly withholding those aid
  3. Because there's a very huge aid per capita, life in Gaza must be rich, where everybody is well fed like DJ Khaled and where the population doesn't live on diet that the Israelis regularly imposed
  4. Now that we know they get a lot of aid, life must be pretty rich and plenty for Palestinians, it's just that most of them regularly end up behind bars without charge or crime and they got no way to 'experience' aid money while being locked up for crimes they didn't commit
Of course, none of this came you through your head before writing your long excuse, but I'm not expecting anything less. The funny thing about this is just how things eventually turn around, just like in Ukraine.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

And its even funnier watching people like @contricusc calling my writing in the Ukraine war thread as 'disgusting' when all I did is imitate the West and their perception on things. Only @Fuzuli NL gets my joke right lel
Sucks to suck! Palestine shouldn't have sold its soul to the Arabs / Muslims in the region that literally do not care one iota about Palestinians, but conveniently use them as their proxy army / play thing in their blood feud against the "evil Jews" in Israel.

Palestinians have been used and abused by the people of the Middle East since the founding of Israel (and probably before). My tax dollars should never have supported a people that associate with the likes of Iran, Syria and Lebanon. I would rather the billions of dollars that Canada has sent to Palestine since 2007 have been used to resettle young, hard working Palestinians in the safety of Canada, where they could have become tax paying citizens and positive contributors to a vibrant society. Instead, most of that money was spent on infrastructure in Gaza that was later turned into primitive rockets (see the water pipes in the region), or stolen so that HAMAS could build a rag tag army to combat Israel with. What an absolute waste of quality currency, on a people who are no better off for having received it.
 

Gary

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Sucks to suck! Palestine shouldn't have sold its soul to the Arabs / Muslims in the region that literally do not care one iota about Palestinians, but confidently use them as their proxy army against the "evil Jews" in Israel.

Palestinians ARE Arabs and Muslims at the same time lol, but then again no surprise these "proxies" accusations come from the Master of using proxies which btw is now engaged in a losing fight with the Russians with Ukraine as proxies lel.
 
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