Live Conflict Israel-Palestine War|Regional Escalations

[Ravager]

Yes, I am clearly mentally retarded for pointing out the simple truth that there is presently no genocide occurring in Gaza. Civilian deaths are going to happen, yes. That's what happens when 2+ million people are stacked on top of each other and allow terrorists to build their infrastructure alongside the homes of the people that live there. Clearly, munitions are only so precise and citizens are going to be killed as a result. That's what happens in war. It's unavoidable if you hope to achieve victory.

But let this mentally retarded Canadian continue to be correct in stating that this isn't what genocide looks like. Genocide has a very specific definition and outcome. This isn't it.

@Dmr have allready pointing out more elloquently . Double standard aside.. Western power are deliberately incites the pronlem here ... Novody cheering for the baebaric acts . But , every moslem here understand where the rage and extremities were coming from ...

the good thing some wont comment on this but on other things.. everyone do what they feel and with what they are concerned..
its this way for many people I saw palestinians or lebanese without any feelings things they do not want to be done to themselves and are blaming what evil thing it is ... they would do instantly if they had the chance to the other side..

alike people blaming putin or else as such wicked.. will stick together with whom they "love" the rules they set up are not applied for everyone.. so dont expect people to be on your side and condemn this kind of pictures they will condemn and hate those which they already hate.. some people are not like this and condemn what is to be condemned and see the bad in whats bad but mostly people are biased and have an agenda and loved ones and hated ones and no ability to see throgh this..

you wont find any words nor any little comment of condemnation even it would be a little one because they dont feel it as bad unless its about themselves and alike

we may witness in the coming weeks real animalism and chanting people...

Poetic ... Yet succinct and to the point on the grims projection ahead . I lament for the civilian's fate . But i lamenting more to hypocrisy that only fueling future hatred and enmity ...

 

[Afif]

Agreed. Ridiculous people being outraged by the fact that they've had the same thing happen to their children in retaliation. You and I are on the same page. It doesn't get more ridiculous than cheering on the death of somebody else's children, then acting dismayed and outraged when they kill yours.

Be an adult in the room. Acknowledge that not a single bomb would have fallen on or near a Palestinian home in the last 72 hours, had Hamas not launched 3000-5000 rockets into Israel and sent assault teams into Israeli communities, killing upwards of 1000 Israeli citizens (children included) and taking more than 100 hostages back to Gaza.

Can you be an adult and just say the following?

"Hamas' actions over the weekend in Israel, directly led to deaths of Palestinian children. Israel dropped the bombs, and bears responsibility, but not a single bomb would have been dropped had Hamas no attacked Israel."

Yes, I can say that because this is pretty obvious.

However, you are talking about hypocrisy which is ridiculous because there is no symmetry here. there is reason why International law applies to everyone. That is because otherwise we have much more chaos. However, Israeli continue to illegally occupy the internationally recognised Palestinian territory for more than a half century and subjugating Palestinian peoples for generations.

Hence, There is no hypocrisy in cheering to Israel's pain while being outraged by their own children's killings. Because Israel is the illegal party here and rightfully needs to expelled from occupied territory. (Not from its recognised territory) The fairness and symmetry of 'if you hurt me I will hurt you back' does not apply to the intruder in my house. Because in this case, only I have the right to hurt him and he don't have the right to do shit.

-Edit- that does not mean I condone killing of Israeli children and elderly. Of course not, but I am talking about the fundamental assumption on who has the moral high ground, Palestinians or Israelis.

 

[Relic]

@Dmr have allready pointing out more elloquently . Double standard aside.. Western power are deliberately incites the pronlem here ... Novody cheering for the baebaric acts . But , every moslem here understand where the rage and extremities were coming from ...

Poetic ... Yet succinct and to the point on the grims projection ahead . I lament for the civilian's fate . But i lamenting more to hypocrisy that only fueling future hatred and enmity ...

I can agree with you that the Western world should be meddling in Middle Eastern problems. You'll get no pushback here! I fully support the idea of getting the hell out of the way and letting the Middle East tear itself apart in conflict, as it has for centuries. I despise my tax money being spent on impoverished people in that region, when we have plenty of our own problems that need funding at home. I'd rather sell our weapons, energy and products to whomever over there can afford it, then get out of their way.

Note that I' not advocating for any kind of Western intervention here. Not at all. I'm simply watching it play out of there. I have no dog in that regional fight. I have opinions on the matter. But I don't want my tax dollars, nor our people, involved.

 

[Afif]

! I fully support the idea of getting the hell out of the way and letting the Middle East tear itself apart in conflict, as it has for centuries.

Expect Middle East was relatively more peaceful in the Middle Ages than most of the world, specially Europe. but I guess you really don’t bother to actually read history in depth, do you?

 

[guest12]

EU Opposes Total Siege Of Gaza, Says Borrell

EU foreign ministers on Tuesday urged Israel not to cut "water, food, or electricity" to Gaza and called for humanitarian corridors for those trying to flee the territory, the bloc's foreign policy chief said.

www.barrons.com

EU foreign ministers on Tuesday urged Israel not to cut "water, food, or electricity" to Gaza and called for humanitarian corridors for those trying to flee the territory, the bloc's foreign policy chief said.

The representatives of the 27 EU countries held emergency talks after the surprise attack by Hamas and as Israel unleashed a reprisal bombing campaign of Gaza.

The European ministers insisted on the need for "respect of international law humanitarian law and it means no blockage of water, food or electricity to the civil population in Gaza", top diplomat Josep Borrell said.
"Israel has the right to defend but it has to be done accordingly with international law, humanitarian law, and some decisions are contrary to this international law," Borrell told journalists in Oman's capital Muscat.

He said the EU meeting called for "humanitarian corridors to facilitate people who have to escape the bombing of Gaza" across the border to Egypt.
After mixed signals from Brussels over the future of its financial support, Borrell said an "overwhelming majority" of EU states oppose suspending aid to the Palestinian Authority.
"Not all the Palestinian people are terrorists," he said.

 

[Dmr]

I have a simple rule of thumb. I don't expect a country to abide by international rules or laws, if their opposition in a conflict doesn't abide by those same laws.

I'll make you a deal, I'll start holding Israel's feet to the fire regarding international laws, when you (and others) start holding all of the countries surrounding Israel to the same standards. But that's not what the Arab and Muslim countries in the region want. They want to cry wolf that Israel isn't playing by international rules, while they maintain that their respective religious and tribal rules supersede international laws.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want one party to be subject to international laws and international scrutiny, you have to accept that reality for the other side as well. Try convincing Hamas or Hezbollah to play the game by established "rules". Good luck with that.

You see you just exposed the double standards of the "international community".Hamas and Hezbollah are designated as terrorist groups for killing civilians,while Israel gets rewarded and praised for doing the same thing on a much larger scale.If you hold them to the same standard you should first proclaim IDF as a terrorist organisation.
Good thing that you mentioned other Arab countries as well.Could you tell us what is the difference between Russian occupation of Crimea and Israeli occupation of Golan heights?
Why isnt Syria getting HIMARS,Javelins and F 16 in order to rightfully liberate their stolen territory?

 

[Relic]

Yes, I can say that because this is pretty obvious.

However, you are talking about hypocrisy which is ridiculous because there is no symmetry here. there is reason why International law applies to everyone. That is because otherwise we have much more chaos. However, Israeli continue to illegally occupy the internationally recognised Palestinian territory for more than a half century and subjugating Palestinian peoples for generations.

Hence, There is no hypocrisy in cheering to Israel's pain while being outraged by their own children's killings. Because Israel is the illegal party here and rightfully needs to expelled from occupied territory. The fairness and symmetry of 'if you hurt and I will hurt you back' does not apply to the intruder in my house. Because in this case, only I have the right to hurt him and he don't have the right to do shit.

Ahhhhhh I see... Illegal occupation (which I actually agree with you on) is justifiable means to cheer on and support the killing of somebody else's child, mother, etc... indiscriminate firing of rockets into resential neighborhoods is the justified response to illegal occupation, got it.

So the indiscriminate, targeted murder of civilians is the appropriate response towards the unlawful occupation of lands?

Then surely you'll agree that cold blooded murder should be the natural reaction to cold blooded murder. If you can murder, or be an accomplyse to it, due to property crime, surely you support "eye for eye" as it relates to murder?

The symmetry argument is always my favourite one. "Country X is more powerful than Country Y, therefore the murder of country X's people is justified, but there should be outrage if any of Country Y's people are murdered in turn". As if that hasn't been the predictable outcome of conflicts such as this throughout history.

Justifying the murder of innocent people, because of frustration and anger caused by a lack of symmetry is one of the worst arguments out there.

Why not keep it simple? We'll stick to attacking your military targets and you can stick to attacking ours. We also won't build ours into civilian infrastructure, so as to purposefully put our citizens at additional risk... That's a pretty simple concept.

 

[Relic]

EU Opposes Total Siege Of Gaza, Says Borrell

EU foreign ministers on Tuesday urged Israel not to cut "water, food, or electricity" to Gaza and called for humanitarian corridors for those trying to flee the territory, the bloc's foreign policy chief said.

www.barrons.com

But nobody supports Palestine... Everybody just supports Israel committing genocide... Nobody asks for accountability. The Jews get everything and everybody else in the region get nothing.

Thank you for posting this. It cuts through the pure victim narrative, like a hot knife through butter.

 

[Bogeyman]

Some facts for you;

-Israel is a state that follows an expansionist-invasive policy in our region and aims to destroy the countries it has identified as targets through internal or external interventions.

- And finally, when it comes to making those target countries its vassals, it will want to intimidate its enemies by showing them its nuclear weapons.

-It is obvious that what happens when Israel finally annexes a region to itself will be no different from the genocides committed in Palestine today.

This is the summary of the policy that Israel has followed since 1948. You can't gloss over this.

-Israel will not stop targeting you if you do not 100% embrace its politics. He may postpone his account with you. But it will never hesitate to eliminate countries it sees as obstacles to itself.

We are sitting right in the middle of their plans for the next 50 years.
You are jealous of the US's strategic depth. "But they are making their plans on a 50-year, 100-year scale," you say. Then, you tell people that it is strategic depth to remain a bystander to the beings in your own neighborhood that pose a direct threat to your future. This can only be explained by weakness.

Even if we cannot make plans on this scale as of today, we need to be aware of the plans made for us.
We need to be aware of this before it is too late tomorrow.

Those who leave their own future to the mercy of other powers are the ones who are ultimately doomed to be exiled from their own homeland.

Real politics does not care about your heroic tests in history. Real politics will test your unity and solidarity within yourself in real time and question whether you are unaware of the traps set against you. If you ignore the threats to your integrity and cannot solve those threats at their source, the stories of the past will not be your savior in the future.

To solve threats at their source, you need to focus not on your existing problems but on the swamp that creates those problems. Even if you cannot dry the swamp, which is the source of the problem, if you cannot isolate it, you will struggle with the mosquitoes it produces instead of the swamp.

 

[guest12]

UN rights chief condemns Israeli 'siege' of Gaza, militants' taking of hostages​

GENEVA, Oct 10 (Reuters) - Israeli retaliatory air strikes against the Hamas militant group struck residential buildings and schools across the Gaza Strip, U.N. Human Rights chief Volker Turk said on Tuesday, adding that "sieges" were illegal under international law.

Turk also condemned "horrifying mass killings by members of Palestinian armed groups" and said the militants' abduction of hostages was also forbidden under international law.


The Israeli military said on Monday it had called up an unprecedented 300,000 reservists and was imposing a total blockade of the Gaza Strip, in a sign it may be planning a ground assault in response to the devastating weekend attacks by Hamas gunmen.

Israel's air attacks - the worst in the 75-year history of its conflict with the Palestinians - also hit "premises of the UN relief and works agency, UNRWA (U.N. Palestinian refugee agency)," a U.N. rights office statement said, adding that civilians were among the dead and injured.


Israel vowed to take "mighty revenge" after the Hamas attack left its streets strewn with bodies. Israeli media said 900 people were killed in the attacks and most were civilians, while nearly 700 Gazans were killed in Israeli strikes, according to Gaza officials, with entire districts flattened.

Israel's defence forces said on social media platform X that aircraft had hit military targets, including weapons storage and manufacturing sites.



Israel's diplomatic mission in Geneva criticised Turk's statement.

"He cannot bring himself to condemn those who carried out the (Hamas) attacks as terrorists," it said.

SUPPLIES CUT, MEDICINES RUN OUT​

Turk said Israel's "imposition of sieges that endanger the lives of civilians by depriving them of goods essential for their survival is prohibited under international humanitarian law".

"This risks seriously compounding the already dire human rights and humanitarian situation in Gaza, including the capacity of medical facilities to operate, especially in light of increasing numbers of injured," he said, adding that a siege may amount to "collective punishment".


Such acts may amount to a war crime, U.N. Human Rights spokesperson Ravina Shamdasani later clarified. The U.N. rights office's findings were based on a review of available material, including from its own monitors on the ground, she said.

Separately, a U.N. -appointed Commission of Inquiry said in a statement there was already "clear evidence that war crimes may have been committed" by all sides to the conflict. It said it was collecting evidence to ensure future legal accountability.

Some 187,500 people have fled their homes in Gaza, a U.N. humanitarian office offices spokesperson said at the same briefing, warning of shortages of water and electricity.

"UNICEF is extremely alarmed about measures to cut electricity, to cut food, to cut water, to cut fuel from entering Gaza. This will add another layer of suffering to the existing catastrophe faced by families in Gaza," said U.N. children's agency spokesperson James Elder. He added that "hundreds" of Israeli and Palestinian children had been killed since the weekend, without giving details.

World Health Organization's Tarik Jašarević said that 13 attacks on health facilities in Gaza had been confirmed by its monitoring service since hostilities began.

It was working on a humanitarian corridor for the Gaza strip, but stores of medical supplies had already run out, he said.

UN rights chief condemns Israeli 'siege' of Gaza, militants' taking of hostages

Israeli retaliatory air strikes against the Hamas militant group struck residential buildings and schools across the Gaza Strip, U.N. Human Rights chief Volker Turk said on Tuesday, adding that "sieges" were illegal under international law.

www.reuters.com

 

[Afif]

Ahhhhhh I see... Illegal occupation (which I actually agree with you on) is justifiable means to cheer on and support the killing of somebody else's child, mother, etc... indiscriminate firing of rockets into resential neighborhoods is the justified response to illegal occupation, got it.

No, I didn’t say it was Justified, I am just saying the hypocrisy that you are pointing to does not exist. however, something that is not hypocritical can easily be unjustifiable.

So the indiscriminate, targeted murder of civilians is the appropriate response towards the unlawful occupation of lands?

No, but it depend on who you consider as civilians. Children and elderly? Absolutely.

However, according to Israeli law, “All Israelis under the age of 40 who served in the IDF, unless otherwise exempt, are theoretically eligible for reserve duty.“

“In 2015, about 26% of the population eligible for reserve duty had an active reservist status.”

Reserve duty (Israel) - Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_duty_(Israel)

This would make the definition of Civilian very complicated for a country like Israel.

The symmetry argument is always my favourite one. "Country X is more powerful than Country Y, therefore the murder of country X's people is justified, but there should be outrage if any of Country Y's people are murdered in turn".

No, that is not what I meant by symmetry here. Let me rephrase it for you.

The consistency and the fairness of the concept 'if you hurt me I will hurt you back' does not apply to the intruder and illegal occupier in my house. Because in this case, legally only I have the right to hurt him because it would be considered self defence and he don't have the right to do shit and if he does, it would be considered crime.

 

[Relic]

You see you just exposed the double standards of the "international community".Hamas and Hezbollah are designated as terrorist groups for killing civilians,while Israel gets rewarded and praised for doing the same thing on a much larger scale.If you hold them to the same standard you should first proclaim IDF as a terrorist organisation.
Good thing that you mentioned other Arab countries as well.Could you tell us what is the difference between Russian occupation of Crimea and Israeli occupation of Golan heights?
Why isnt Syria getting HIMARS,Javelins and F 16 in order to rightfully liberate their stolen territory?

Two things

1). Each country (or bloc) has the right to determine who they view to be a terrorist organization and who they view as a legitimate military, with legitimate standards. There is no universal agreement. We all make decisions in accordance with our values and shared security.

2). Ukraine is getting weapons from the West because they're fighting our cause for us, which is the destruction of the Soviet stockpile of land weapons that was left to Russia when the Soviet Union collapsed. Those weapons represent an existential threat to the EU, NATO and our combined / mutual interests. Russia screwed up and invaded a country willing to defend itself and we're getting a "pennies on the dollar" cost to see the Russian Army destroyed as a serious threat to NATO, for a generation. In short, Ukraine is getting weapons and money because they're willingly fighting a war on our behalf, for their own survival, so we don't have to.

Syria is not getting weapons because we don't care about their cause. It has no major implications on the security of NATO. We're not self-interested in Syria's struggle, nor the motivations of their adversaries. We're not the "good guys" dude. We're self-interested like the rest of you. Ukraine is doing something so that we don't have to do it ourselves. We're giving up a pile of old equipment to wreck the Russian army, so that we can buy brand new weapons and keep our military superiority moving forward for another generation. Syria does not present us with an opportunity We're interested in.

 

[GoatsMilk]

In Gaza, it was as if I would fight to the death against a herd of carcasses ready to kill millions of people. But I wouldn't touch civilians either. I would not hesitate to do this even at the expense of the lives of innocents in Gaza. Yes, if I had the opportunity, it would definitely happen this way. No one should make excuses not to fight against a community that has been determined to commit such genocide for 100 years. Those who commit such genocide in Palestine today will commit such genocide at our doorstep in Syria 20-30 years later. Then they will annex our border. Maybe they will even show up at our door. What will we say then? They have nuclear weapons, we should get along well with them, maybe they won't touch us? If you make friends with a snake, you may not find anyone to help you when it haunts you.

If were being honest only arrogant and inconsiderate muppets hold a music festival outside an open air prison, where 2 million people have been relentlessly terrorised. As much as its morally bankrupt to murder those people, those same people shouldn't be partying on land they stole not so long ago considering how close it is to the hornets nest they've been kicking in for the past 70 to 80 years.

 

[Relic]

No, I didn’t say it was Justified, I am just saying the hypocrisy that you are pointing to does not exist. however, something that is not hypocritical can easily be unjustifiable.



No, but it depend on who you consider as civilians. Children and elderly? Absolutely.

However, according to Israeli law, “All Israelis under the age of 40 who served in the IDF, unless otherwise exempt, are theoretically eligible for reserve duty.“

“In 2015, about 26% of the population eligible for reserve duty had an active reservist status.”

Reserve duty (Israel) - Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_duty_(Israel)

This would make the definition of Civilian very complicated for a country like Israel.



No, that is not what I meant by symmetry here. Let me rephrase it for you.

The consistency and the fairness of the concept 'if you hurt and I will hurt you back' does not apply to the intruder and illegal occupier in my house. Because in this case, legally only I have the right to hurt him because it would considered self defence and he don't have the right to do shit and if he does, it would consider crime.

That assumes that Israel is in Palestine's house. Which brings us to the timeless argument of whose claim to the land is more legitimate. Considering there is no universal agreement on that (hence this ongoing dispute) it's technically "nobody's house" as recognized internationally, therefore, both parties are 100% in the wrong when they kill each other's civilians.

Also, killing somebody in society, who is not serving in uniform, or in any military capacity and is not in possession of a weapon, is murder, whether they can be called up as a reservist, or not.

Let me ask you this. You point out technicality in Israelis being trained as reservists and whether or not that means they are actually civilians... Do you see the same technicality in Hamas building their military infrastructure into Palestinian residential buildings, hospitals and communities? Do the buildings housing babies and sick people become legitimate military targets when they share military / militant purposes? Surely if civilians at a music festival or in their own homes can be possible military targets because they MIGHT have received training, so can civilians that live / work in the same dwelling as DEFINITE military infrastructure... Correct?

 

[Oublious]

 

[Dmr]

Two things

1). Each country (or bloc) has the right to determine who they view to be a terrorist organization and who they view as a legitimate military, with legitimate standards. There is no universal agreement. We all make decisions in accordance with our values and shared security.

2). Ukraine is getting weapons from the West because they're fighting our cause for us, which is the destruction of the Soviet stockpile of land weapons that was left to Russia when the Soviet Union collapsed. Those weapons represent an existential threat to the EU, NATO and our combined / mutual interests. Russia screwed up and invaded a country willing to defend itself and we're getting a "pennies on the dollar" cost to see the Russian Army destroyed as a serious threat to NATO, for a generation. In short, Ukraine is getting weapons and money because they're willingly fighting a war on our behalf, for their own survival, so we don't have to.

Syria is not getting weapons because we don't care about their cause. It has no major implications on the security of NATO. We're not self-interested in Syria's struggle, nor the motivations of their adversaries. We're not the "good guys" dude. We're self-interested like the rest of you. Ukraine is doing something so that we don't have to do it ourselves. We're giving up a pile of old equipment to wreck the Russian army, so that we can buy brand new weapons and keep our military superiority moving forward for another generation. Syria does not present us with an opportunity We're interested in.

We finally agreed on something.Who would have thought?

 

[Relic]

If were being honest only arrogant and inconsiderate muppets hold a music festival outside an open air prison, where 2 million people have been relentlessly terrorised. As much as its morally bankrupt to murder those people, those same people shouldn't be partying on land they stole not so long ago considering how close it is to the hornets nest they've been kicking in for the past 70 to 80 years.

Almost every exisiting country on Earth has stolen, commandeered or won / lost land in a war. It's not in any way unique to the Israel / Palestine situation. Borders have changed substantially throughout history. Land owners have been evicted. Some have been eradicated. It's the normal course of humanity. It's dark, but it's who we are.

But please don't tell me you're justifying the slaughter of a bunch of people at a music festival, because of a territorial dispute over stolen land. Because if that's the case there is some serious murdering around the world that we can start justifying. There are a TON of disgruntled people around the world with land claims that currently aren't working out in their favour.

 

[Relic]

We finally agreed on something.Who would have thought?

Exactly!

 

[guest12]

But nobody supports Palestine... Everybody just supports Israel committing genocide... Nobody asks for accountability. The Jews get everything and everybody else in the region get nothing.

Thank you for posting this. It cuts through the pure victim narrative, like a hot knife through butter.

While international pressure started to come down Israel it doesn't mean they will follow it since that pressure only coming from UN and EU but not U.S.

 

[Bozan]

Erdogan is attacking the US and Israel, after attacking Europe.

This guy is like an old uncle ranting and no-one can tell him to stop

We are close to 1 dollar = 30 lira.