Live Conflict Israel-Palestine War|Regional Escalations
- Thread starter Kartal1
- Start date
Gary
Experienced member
- Messages
- 8,361
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
This is what I'm talking about, Bebo made it even clearer
"Either destroy all your institutions and be finally and fully exposed as a hypocrite or act against Israel. "
So even if the ICJ doesn't rule in favor of Palestinians, I still see it as a win, we will destroy this Western order bit by bit. Remember how the invasion of Iraq 20 years ago is now used in full to antagonize Ukraine and delegitimzie Western narrative ? Well, the West will never know what the outcome of this will be used for against their interests in full somewhere in the future.
So be patient brothers and sisters
Gary
Experienced member
- Messages
- 8,361
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Anyway here's the full text:
ICJ EXPLANATION: Why is the South African case against Israel at The Hague important and historic! -
Many people think that the ICJ case has no consequence and hence means nothing. This cannot be further from the truth
1) First you need to understand how these institutions are used. Previously such international institutions were used by western countries to exert pressure on the global south. The west always talks about morality and the need to abide by international law and The Hague’s decisions. - Reminder, last year a case in Hague’s ICC was opened against the Russian president. The G7 then exerted tremendous pressure on all countries to break ties with Russia and arrest the Russian president upon visit of their country.
South Africa was hosting a BRICS summit and they could not invite the Russian president. There was a lot of controversy, but in the end the ICC triumphed. Now we have South Africa flipping the tables and essentially trapping the G7 in a situation where they either need to abide by the ICJ court and abandon Israel or they destroy the international institutions of The Hague. The global south is watching closely. If the case will be dropped now, it’s effectively a destruction of the institution as well.
2) What will happen if South Africa wins? Let’s say the court rules in South Africa’s favor. Now nothing happens, Israel ignores the decision.
South Africa goes with this decision to the UN! Then the general assembly can decide on further proceedings and they will in Palestine’s favor. This likely would lead to UN mandated sanctions of Israel, like freezing assets, import limits and so on. Now this is essentially another problem for the west, since all countries around Israel would join the sanctions. The US cannot forbid countries to abide by UN decisions, also if the G7 countries do not follow the sanctions then they will be in blatant violation as well.
NEXT: ICC follow-up lawsuits! First the ICC would have to look at Netanyahu and co, since there’s a case confirming they’re doing gen**ide they cannot ignore it. And now we come back the big drama the G7 made about the Russian president. Now the same would apply to Netanyahu, for example. This means he can’t go to Europe and US anymore, just imagine this!
Netanyahu would be officially a criminal that has to be arrested upon arrival. That would be the self destruction of the west or the downfall of Israel, ending up as a pariah state.
Indonesia lawsuits: Now Indonesia is filing a lawsuit at the ICJ against Israel for the 70 year occupation of Palestine. The decision is “moral binding” sure. BUT again, it’s a hypocrisy trap and Indonesia can take this decision to the UN general assembly and try to get all countries to act, i. E. sanctions.
Mexico and Chile sue Israel as well in the ICC. "The action by Mexico and Chile is due to growing worry over the latest escalation of violence, particularly against civilian targets Israel is not a member of the Hague-based court and does not recognize its jurisdiction. But the ICC's prosecutor has stressed his court has jurisdiction over potential crimes carried in Gaza and Israel.”
Another hypocrisy trap, Russia is also not a member of the ICC but G7 countries ignored that and demanded his arrest. Now this cannot be used as an excuse anymore, or Russia is off.
South Africa’s lawsuit at the international court of justice is a clever trap for the west. Either destroy all your institutions and be finally and fully exposed as a hypocrite or act against Israel. This is also why the western countries freak out so much about the ICJ, because they would have a big problem if Israel would be convicted. Just look at the UN voting for Palestine (pic), Israel has no chance if there’s a court decision. If South Africa wins, or any other lawsuit would win, Israel has a problem. More countries are joining the lawsuits or file their own! Let’s see!
contricusc
Contributor
- Messages
- 532
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
The West should abandon Israel and defend its moral standing and institutions. Netanyahu doesn’t deserve any help as he is a war criminal and he doesn’t care about the interests of his so called allies. He is a liability to the West, and everything he does damages the West’s reputation.
The ICJ should rule in favor of South Africa and let Israel deal witht he consequences. It’s about time for Israel to be treated based on its actions, which means to receive the same treatment as Russia, since they act the same.
- Messages
- 4,754
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Israel & it deeds are a massive baggage on the West. (USA and its allies could easily pressure Israel to behave like any other normal state, but they just don't)
I think people with common sense still prefer US led world order compared to one China or Russia wants to bring. It is relatively humane and fair. (For example, I didn’t think I would see a day when USA is viewed positively in my country. Yet today, thanks to its stance against illegal and undemocratic government of Bangladesh, USA is viewed positively by majority of Bangladeshi)
However, Western policy toward Israel is a massive stain of hypocrisy & double standard on the very set of values West claims to preach.
Gary
Experienced member
- Messages
- 8,361
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Yup, as I told you before
The ICJ being a Western institution, stops with the ceasefire, the only thing they agreed upon is something menial. Such as, "asking" Israel to " prevent" genocide LOL
The ICJ being a Western institution, stops with the ceasefire, the only thing they agreed upon is something menial. Such as, "asking" Israel to " prevent" genocide LOL
Gary
Experienced member
- Messages
- 8,361
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
So in short the ICJ :
>asked Israel to abide by international (more like Western) law, without charging the Israelis with anything serious, this is just the ICJ parroting Western leaders like Biden and Sunak who pretend to call for peace while at the same time refusing to name Israel for any serious wrongdoings and most importantly refuse to push for a ceasefire.
Of course, this is not something that I wouldn't expect to begin with, as this is what has already written on the wall for quite some time now. Israel owned the West and the ICJ with all the 'Internationa' brandings are none other than a Western tool, you do not try to seek justice while the very court you're attending are owned by your enemy.
South Africa is smart, they know that the result wouldn't be satisfactory, but seeking justice is not even the point, not with a Western institution. The point is to make the ICJ make themselves look less and less credible. And here it is the ICJ showing it what it and other "global agencies" are all about, a tool for Western power to play with/
As a Muslim, I personally would not accept anything the ICJ comes up with, the only justice I would accept is if Israeli leaders are dragged in chains ...on an international Sharia court, where they are to be tried by Muslim judges, charged and the punishment would likely be in the form of public hanging in the middle of City.
How long are we going to make till that point? I don't know, but I'm patient enough
>asked Israel to abide by international (more like Western) law, without charging the Israelis with anything serious, this is just the ICJ parroting Western leaders like Biden and Sunak who pretend to call for peace while at the same time refusing to name Israel for any serious wrongdoings and most importantly refuse to push for a ceasefire.
Of course, this is not something that I wouldn't expect to begin with, as this is what has already written on the wall for quite some time now. Israel owned the West and the ICJ with all the 'Internationa' brandings are none other than a Western tool, you do not try to seek justice while the very court you're attending are owned by your enemy.
South Africa is smart, they know that the result wouldn't be satisfactory, but seeking justice is not even the point, not with a Western institution. The point is to make the ICJ make themselves look less and less credible. And here it is the ICJ showing it what it and other "global agencies" are all about, a tool for Western power to play with/
As a Muslim, I personally would not accept anything the ICJ comes up with, the only justice I would accept is if Israeli leaders are dragged in chains ...on an international Sharia court, where they are to be tried by Muslim judges, charged and the punishment would likely be in the form of public hanging in the middle of City.
How long are we going to make till that point? I don't know, but I'm patient enough
Gary
Experienced member
- Messages
- 8,361
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Demand release of hostage but at the same time no words about ceasefire. Exactly the talking points of israel
That is the ICJ for ye.
That is the ICJ for ye.
Ryder
Experienced member
- Messages
- 10,857
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
A change in geopolitics is coming soon.
Global South is now starting slowly break out of the chains of Rules based order.
Global North and its arrogance of the Global South.
In Australia you dont even want to know what East Timor did. Australia began to slowly take East Timors eez. East Timor basically had enough began to become close to China even inviting them. Which was basicially a middle finger to us.
Instead Australia got pretty much butthurt with East Timor protecting its own interests because we constantly bullied them.
Our pacific policy is all a mess. How stupid of us to constantly follow the Americans in everything they do. We cant even accept that we are in the Asia-Pacific region.
Arrogance has always been anybodys downfall. We dont learn from it.
Ravager
Contributor
- Messages
- 1,091
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Damn ....jokowi upping the ante now . He is explicitly forbade any Israeli's related ship to anchor/enter the Indonesian port ...
www.kompas.tv
Wow
PM Israel Netanyahu Tolak Negara Palestina, Jokowi: Ini Tidak Dapat Diterima
Presiden Jokowi menentang pernyataan Perdana Menteri (PM) Israel Benjamin Netanyahu yang menolak berdirinya negara Palestina.
Wow
GoatsMilk
Experienced member
- Messages
- 3,450
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
Hamas leader rules out two-state solution
Khaled Mashaal has insisted that Palestinians won’t recognize Israel and that their nation will extend “from the river to the sea”.
Senior Hamas official Khaled Mashaal has rejected calls for the negotiation of a two-state peace deal with Israel to end the war in Gaza, proclaiming that the Palestinian people will never legitimize the “Zionist entity” in West Jerusalem by accepting its existence.
Biden admin. writes letter to US Congress to OK F-16 sales to Türkiye
The Joe Biden administration urged the U.S. Congress to approve the sale of F-16 fighter jets and modernization kits to Türkiye in a letter submitted on...www.dailysabah.com
What a stupid, braindead, bearded, retarded gorilla he is to declare this worldwide to the press.
Just 1 week, just 1 week ago, Netanyahu declared the same and the whole world condemned his statements, even the USA rejected Netanyahu's speech. The only guarantee for peace was a two state solution said Russia, China, US and EU.
Israel had already lost the war on social media but with Netanyahu's statements about the impossibility of a Two State solution, they also lost every credibility in the international mainstream press.
Their masks fell off, they admitted unwillingly that they had no intentions for a peacefull solution. Western politicians started turning sides, some even asked for a militairy intervention.
And then - this bearded captain caveman made the same stupid statement as Netanyahu, as if Israel paid him for it.
This is the greatest evidence that the higher echelons of Hamas work together with the Mossad.
Everything they say and do only helps Zionist plans. Either they are complete morons or they are working with Mossad. If Mossad can get american presidents to engage in shady stuff and record it to then blackmail them, these Hamas playboys will be easy to trap, manipulate and use in the cause of zionism.
The common Muslims has to wake up, because i think nearly the entire leadership spectrum of the Muslims peoples is compromised.
- Messages
- 3,041
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Spot on!
- Messages
- 1,209
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
South Africa v Israel: A Weak Ruling, But A Diplomatic Victory
On 29th December 2023, South Africa championed the Palestinian cause by instituting proceedings against Israel in the International Court of Justice for violations on the part of Israel of its international duties as per the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. South Africa accused Israel of perpetrating genocidal acts within the Gaza Strip with its immediate operation as well as its historical actions for the last 75 years.Israel and its allies denied these charges and declared that their actions were legal under international law. With two public hearings, the ICJ announced its initial verdict since the case is far from its conclusion and is likely to proceed for years to come. The ICJ declared its jurisdiction, recognized the position of South Africa as an appropriate party and certified the definition of genocide within international law.
The ICJ further declared Palestinians as a distinct nation, and thus recognized them as a protected group within international law, legally putting an end to the repeated assertions by Israeli sympathizers that Palestinians are not a true nation. The ICJ also recognized the horrors in Gaza and noted that they are being committed by members of Israeli forces, as well as the dehumanizing and genocidal tone taken by Israeli officials against the people of Palestine.
The Court recognized these acts to be within the definition of ‘genocide,’ however stopped short of declaring the violations by the Israeli occupation forces within Gaza and the Israeli officials themselves to be state sponsored acts of genocide, which is in disconnection from its recognition of the fact that Israeli officials are repeatedly endorsing and condoning genocidal acts in Gaza. The ICJ noted the immediate situation in Gaza will create “irreparable prejudice” against the rights of the Palestinian people and thus immediate intermediation as necessary.
With this judgment, the Court announced immediate measures that Israel must undertake which included Israel ensuring that no more actions that fall within the definition of genocide take place and must make sure that its military operations in Gaza do not incur any actions that could be construed as genocide, nor destroy any evidence that genocide has taken place. The Court further held that Israel must also allow humanitarian aid to enter into Gaza and reminded Israel that its orders are legally binding and that they must submit a report on the situation within one month.
Despite these laudable provisional measures, the ICJ ruling is weak and questionable. Apart from the fact that the ICJ has refused to recognize the acts of genocide that it has recorded in its judgment to be state sponsored, despite the recognized severity of the situation, the ICJ refused to order a ceasefire in the conflict. This is surprising since the ICJ recognized that Israeli state officials are using dehumanizing language regarding Palestinians and Gaza, mentioning said language within the judgment itself and further recognized that the military operations by the Israeli occupation have acted in the same manner, yet the ICJ refused to adjudge on the most basic, required and immediate provisional measure of an immediate ceasefire, effectively allowing Israel to continue its extremely repugnant acts within Palestine.
By not answering this question, it recognized Israel’s military operations in Gaza as legally valid as long as they didn’t breach the articles of the Genocide Convention.
Another question that the ICJ refused to recognize in its judgment was the presence of Israeli occupying forces within Gaza, an act that is clearly against international law, especially when the ICJ has recognized said territory as Palestinian in its advisory opinions. This lack of acknowledgement will once again have a deteriorating impact on global security, as it will cement a precedent that states can invade and occupy territories of other states providing any probable cause.
This recognition of invasion and occupation promises to degrade international law, as nations will look to mount military operations, strikes, invasions and occupations under the vague excuse of national security. This intentional oversight must be corrected by the ICJ, as well as the global community; after all, why is this military engagement kosher, yet other military engagements around the world are not? Many nations will notice this omission as a recognition and apply it to themselves.
However, despite this weak ruling, there are many positives to take away from this situation as well, since the judgment does state that genocide is taking place in Gaza and it is being conducted by the Israeli military, which is a major source of embarrassment not only for Israel, but particularly for its allies in the Western world. The judgment also recognized the rights of the Palestinian people and reminded Israel that it was breaking international law, thus effectively delivering a fatal blow to the narrative propagated by Israel and its allies that Israeli actions are completely in compliance with International doctrines and that the Palestinian people neither form a nation, nor have a national territory.
The ICJ also recognized that Israel has put Gaza under siege, which it must immediately lift, and stated that so far Israeli steps in curbing its genocidal actions have been insufficient. All these recognitions by the ICJ have placed Israel and its allies in a dilemma. Israel’s allies can either recognize the ICJ’s provisional measures and condemn Israeli actions or ignore the ICJ and declare support for Israel, effectively going rogue and proving the repeated assertions by Israel’s critics that the Western world cares little for law, resulting in the weakening of their own influence and deterioration of security in a divided world.
As for Israel, it will do what it has done, which is to continue its military aggression in Gaza and ignore the ICJ, which will thus prove that it is not only a rogue state, but a genocidal state, diminishing its standing in the global community as it expends all its diplomatic currency in this foolish endeavor.
The judgment by the ICJ will not end the Palestinian conflict, especially considering its weak nature, but this step by South Africa is commendable as Israel and its allies must be told that their illegal and brutal actions are being condemned and declared illegal. Even if minimal, a message has been sent that brutal occupations will lead to states and individuals condemning it. Somebody has to stand and save this degradation of international law from continuing further.
South Africa v Israel: A Weak Ruling, But A Diplomatic Victory
Although the ICJ has not ordered an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, its verdict has acknowledged that Israel's actions are violative of the articles of the
thefridaytimes.com
My article regarding the ICJ judgment. Alot of Jurists have contended to the fact that it is a diplomatic victory for the palestinian cause and will bring more pressure on the Israeli government, however they are divided between the strength of the judgement, from those who consider that it is weak such as myself to those who consider the ruling to be strong, although only a select few are looking into the impact this judgement will have on the larger international law.
Al-Qassam fighters clashing with occupation soldiers in Khan Yunis
