TR Land Vehicle Programs

Stuka

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Pars IV 6x6 is just a upgraded Pars III 6x6. Pars IV 8x8 is the crown jewel. The demand for 6x6 is just not there.

But it begs the Question. Why do it?
I mean don't get me wrong I am not an Expert but why the Diversity of Vehicles by a country that is already lacking funding ?

Every NATO Partner is selecting 1 Platform and Building different Variants of it. (Modularity)
The GTK BOXER is great Example and they intend to Decrease Costs of Maintenance and Readiness, while increasing Commonality.
But the Turkish Armed Forces seem to be very Mixed.

Propulsion:
-Cummins Engines, Deutz Engines, Ukrainian Engines, BMC Power Engines, TÜMOSAN Engines, Detroit Diesel, MTU Engines, Mercedes-Benz Engines, SCANIA DT, Caterpillar Engines etc.

Even Multiple MRAPs in the Same Class.
- BMC Amazon, Katmerciler Hizir, OTOKAR Cobra 2, Nurol Ejder Yalcin,

> Correct me if I am wrong but that likely requires huge Logistics and Costs.
 

Stimpy75

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don't praise the Boxer.....

and that thing is bigger than the Maus from WWII...modularity?for what? you know how long it takes to change that module? and imo for what ? just buy the version instead of that stupid modularity....the US Navy had also that bright idea of modularity for their LCS...and the first one has been put out of service after 10 years....
one platform?more like buy the german platform with ze german engine and german transmission...no logistic problem here....just read the news i linked
 
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Masesebe

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But it begs the Question. Why do it?
I mean don't get me wrong I am not an Expert but why the Diversity of Vehicles by a country that is already lacking funding ?

Every NATO Partner is selecting 1 Platform and Building different Variants of it. (Modularity)
The GTK BOXER is great Example and they intend to Decrease Costs of Maintenance and Readiness, while increasing Commonality.
But the Turkish Armed Forces seem to be very Mixed.

Propulsion:
-Cummins Engines, Deutz Engines, Ukrainian Engines, BMC Power Engines, TÜMOSAN Engines, Detroit Diesel, MTU Engines, Mercedes-Benz Engines, SCANIA DT, Caterpillar Engines etc.

Even Multiple MRAPs in the Same Class.
- BMC Amazon, Katmerciler Hizir, OTOKAR Cobra 2, Nurol Ejder Yalcin,

> Correct me if I am wrong but that likely requires huge Logistics and Costs.
You are right , because of that the turkish land forces are taking time acquiring new infantry fighting vehicles .
I know that aselsan is doing its best modernizing the current fleet of fnss zma , it should add power to the land forces but its not enough , we cant blame the army because the same point you mentioned , they want the domestic powerpacks to mature and to enter mass production like tumosan powerpack and bmc power powerpack .
So i think they did right by signing a cpntract with fnss to produce pars 6x6 armored vehicles which is great and even the best in its category .
Bmc kirpi was a great example filling the gab , back when brave turkish soldiers suffered ied attack and it cost a lot of soldiers life , bmc kirpi saved a lot of lives but now since turkey grew and new battlefields started with different situations , so a tracked infantry fighting vehicle is must , so until the domestic powerpacks get matured fnss contract is a great solution with high domestic rate (without powerpack) and great performance and also you can add more firepower to it which kirpi mrap cant do .
And also we should mention that next year fnss will start to deliver pars izci as well with tumosan engines .
So i think right now all major companies such otokar fnss and bmc is developing tracked fighting vehicle with domestic engine and transmission maybe the utku powerpack since it will be mass produced in 2023 which is soon .
And also the wheeled ifv with domestic powerpack like pars iv and bmc 8x8 and maybe otokar arma if they focus more on adding the tumosan powerpack and that is not hard since they changed the whole arma vehicle shape for the uae to accept russian made turret .
And who knows maybe other companies can join the tender like tumosan it self since we saw 8x8 armored vehicle project by them during last idef .
So the answer is by 2030 turkish land forces will have domestic powerpacks which will help with repairing and maintenance and also will open the export door for turkey .
We all se how turkish defence products are spreading even with the west putting obstacles , so soon when turkey will be free of these obstacles like engines and transmission turkey will be a huge competitor to other huge defence seller countries .
And with that comes more power and responsibility since turkey is a moral country not like other bloodthirsty countries
 

Stuka

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don't praise the Boxer.....

and that thing is bigger than the Maus from WWII...modularity?for what? you know how long it takes to change that module? and imo for what ? just buy the version instead of that stupid modularity....the US Navy had also that bright idea of modularity for their LCS...and the first one has been put out of service after 10 years....
one platform?more like buy the german platform with ze german engine and german transmission...no logistic problem here....just read the news i linked

Pars IV 8X8 is 35 Tons, BMC 8x8 is longer than a Bus that's where the Trend is with Military Equipment.
Since PARS IV was designed with TAF input, apparently that's also what they deem necessary.

Modularity, wasn't specifically related to the Boxer per se but rather that a platform can and should have different Variants in order to spend less of that already limited Budget on various Platforms.

German ? I don't think SSB should buy anything from Germany especially not a 8x8 IFV which the Turkish Companies can produce themselves and BMC Power and Tümosan even have Engines in Testing.

The Reality is that Turkey has Engines and Transmissions from Germany and they need spare parts for Maintenance
and they are using DEUTZ Engines for FNSS IFVs which is what I find baffling.
The FNSS Pars has also a German Engine!

 

Stuka

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You are right , because of that the turkish land forces are taking time acquiring new infantry fighting vehicles .
I know that aselsan is doing its best modernizing the current fleet of fnss zma , it should add power to the land forces but its not enough , we cant blame the army because the same point you mentioned , they want the domestic powerpacks to mature and to enter mass production like tumosan powerpack and bmc power powerpack .
So i think they did right by signing a cpntract with fnss to produce pars 6x6 armored vehicles which is great and even the best in its category .
Bmc kirpi was a great example filling the gab , back when brave turkish soldiers suffered ied attack and it cost a lot of soldiers life , bmc kirpi saved a lot of lives but now since turkey grew and new battlefields started with different situations , so a tracked infantry fighting vehicle is must , so until the domestic powerpacks get matured fnss contract is a great solution with high domestic rate (without powerpack) and great performance and also you can add more firepower to it which kirpi mrap cant do .
And also we should mention that next year fnss will start to deliver pars izci as well with tumosan engines .
So i think right now all major companies such otokar fnss and bmc is developing tracked fighting vehicle with domestic engine and transmission maybe the utku powerpack since it will be mass produced in 2023 which is soon .
And also the wheeled ifv with domestic powerpack like pars iv and bmc 8x8 and maybe otokar arma if they focus more on adding the tumosan powerpack and that is not hard since they changed the whole arma vehicle shape for the uae to accept russian made turret .
And who knows maybe other companies can join the tender like tumosan it self since we saw 8x8 armored vehicle project by them during last idef .
So the answer is by 2030 turkish land forces will have domestic powerpacks which will help with repairing and maintenance and also will open the export door for turkey .
We all se how turkish defence products are spreading even with the west putting obstacles , so soon when turkey will be free of these obstacles like engines and transmission turkey will be a huge competitor to other huge defence seller countries .
And with that comes more power and responsibility since turkey is a moral country not like other bloodthirsty countries

BMC Kirpi and Vuran are a great way to Replace those Unarmored MB Unimog's, no doubt about it.
> These MRAPs however weren't supposed to be in the Frontlines since they aren't IFVs which is important.

The Turkish Armed Forces are buying American Cummins Engines left and right so the right approach would IMO have been to determine what Platform for wheeled and Tracked IFVs is going to be selected and than have the initial Batch with a foreign Engine and then have, for example, the 2nd one with a domestic Power pack.
> The Powerpack is usually Cummins Engine and Allison Transmission.

They must know that at the HQ at SSB but why would they insist on a Local Powerpack and not wait till those Mature and run Extensive Testing for a 2nd Batch is a mystery to me.
In the meantime the initial Batch could start Serial Production because until those Vehicles will start to be delivered to the Forces valuable time will be lost.
 

Hexciter

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Turkish Yoruk 4x4 among shortlist five finalists in Japanese tender​

Defense News
13 August 2021 13:55


According to information published by Daily Sabah on August 10, 2021, Turkish land vehicles manufacturer Nurol Makina’s Yörük 4x4 light armored vehicle became one of the finalist bidders in an armored vehicle tender held in Japan. If the domestic vehicle awards the tender, it will be the first armored vehicle export from Turkey to Japan.
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Yörük 4x4 light armored vehicle (Picture source: Nurol Makina)

The Yörük has a length of 4.90 m, a width of 2.40 m and a height of 2.10 m. The vehicle can carry a total of 9 people with seats for the driver and commander at the front and a second row of seats for three people. The rear cabin can also accommodate four passengers facing each other. The design of the vehicle offers the possibility to increase the protection depending on mission requirements, using scalable armor and composite materials.
The vehicle weighs 8 tons, with a maximum payload of 4 tons. Each side of the vehicle are fitted with two doors including small bulletproof windows in the upper part. There is one additional bulletproof window on each side at the rear part of the troop compartment and to the back side of the hull.
The light armored vehicle is motorized with a 300 HP. diesel engine coupled to an automatic transmission and permanent 4x4. The vehicle can run at a maximum road speed of 140 km/h with a maximum cruising range of 700 km.
The Yörük 4x4 is fitted with a remote weapon station located on the roof of the crew compartment which is armed with a 7.62mm machine gun. It can be easily adapted on customer requirements to be used as APC (Armored Personnel Carrier), anti-tank weapon station or cargo vehicle.
The countries that already use Nurol Makina’s products include Tunisia, Qatar, Hungary, Uzbekistan and Senegal.
 

Stuka

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What do you think about Yörük pick-up?

I don't really know who you are targeting with that question but I m going to share my 2 Cents.

Yörük Pickup isn't anything new. They just updated the look and Media is acting like its new.
When you have a Platform you can Modify it like that and that was I saying in the Posts before about 1 Platform different Missions.


Single Cabin < - > Double Cabin

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They Presented the Double Cabin and I don't know its purpose really.
It just decreases Space for the Personnel inside because the Cargo Bed isn't really big enough for anything major and where is
The Single Cabin allows for more Equipment to be placed in its Cargo area Like ATGMs or Air Defense Missile, perhaps even a ZSU-23.

But there are similar Vehicles that have been presented by OTOKAR but the Turkish Armed Forces didn't show any interest at all.

Otokar Ural (2017)

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Cobra II (2018)

1628862013704.png


It is simply put a good way for the Company to demonstrate the Flexibility of the platform when you are trying to sell it, maybe to Japan.
 

Khagan1923

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Within the scope of the YNHZA (New Generation Light Armoured Vehicle) project, it is planned to supply 1162 (6x6 and 8x8) wheeled vehicles and 1800 tracked vehicles in 52 different configurations.


Wheeled: Pars IV 8x8 and 6x6
Tracked: Kaplan-20 and Kaplan-30, possible suprise new tracked vehicle.

FNSS is already working with Tümosan and other Turkish companies for IZCI 6x6 and 8x8. The same will most likely happen for Pars IV and Kaplan.

The good thing with Pars IV is that it was developed with direct input from K.K.K. . The final product should already satisfy the needs of the Land Forces without any need for major revision. Which means a quick start of the production line and a high indigenous rate.

Best option to for imo. Otokar doesn't seem to care much for the tender(will probably still enter it though) and BMC is too far back to bring fourth a viable product that could enter serial production in the next 5 years, also they should first produce the first Altay before trying to enter massive tenders.
 
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Stuka

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OTOKAR updated their Portfolio and Statistics.

ARMA 8x8 2021 Gross Vehicle weight is now 40 Tons!

2019 ARMA vs 2021 ARMA

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1628955982853.png
1628956479251.png
 

BordoEnes

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Wheeled: Pars IV 8x8 and 6x6
Tracked: Kaplan-20 and Kaplan-30, possible suprise new tracked vehicle.

FNSS is already working with Tümosan and other Turkish companies for IZCI 6x6 and 8x8. The same will most likely happen for Pars IV and Kaplan.

The good thing with Pars IV is that it was developed with direct input from K.K.K. . The final product should already satisfy the needs of the Land Forces without any need for major revision. Which means a quick start of the production line and a high indigenous rate.

Best option to for imo. Otokar doesn't seem to care much for the tender(will probably still enter it though) and BMC is too far back to bring fourth a viable product that could enter serial production in the next 5 years, also they should first produce the first Altay before trying to enter massive tenders.

FNSS has definitely become one of the best, if not the best armored vehicle producer in Turkey. Starting out as a company specializing in tracked vehicles only they branched out and outperformed its competitors in other sectors. The wheeled vehicles contract should definitely go to them. Though for tracked vehicles I am definitely hoping that it includes the Tulpar or Korhan for our heavy duty needs whilst the rest can be filled by workhorses such as Kaplan 20/30.
 
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