TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Yasar_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546454475321344000

At least two different missiles with RamJet propulsion system are currently being developed in Turkey.

- The first of these is the AKBABA Anti-Radiation Missile developed by Roketsan. The other is the GÖKHAN Air Air Missile developed by TÜBİTAK-SAGE.

Check out posts #3066 and #3067 by @Cabatli_53 in April this year. Page 154

there should be some tests being done on these missiles. But I guess due to the nature of secrecy surrounding them, it will take sometime before they are revealed. Especially the Akbaba ramjet which will be targeting AD systems like S400 will be the last one to be revealed.

 

[Yasar_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546454475321344000

At least two different missiles with RamJet propulsion system are currently being developed in Turkey.

- The first of these is the AKBABA Anti-Radiation Missile developed by Roketsan. The other is the GÖKHAN Air Air Missile developed by TÜBİTAK-SAGE.

If we recap previous posts;
The Akbaba missile being developed by Roketsan, will have a solid fuelled ramjet engine.
But the Gökhan air to air missile developed by Tubitak Sage will have a liquid fuelled (most likely a Gel-liquid based) ramjet engine.
So two different ramjet applications. Quite different to customary applications adapted by other manufacturers. (Meteor is solid fuelled, Brahmos is liquid gel fuelled)
The quicker we have them operating the better. They are truly both game changer and force multiplier missiles that will put our airforce in a different league.

 

[TheInsider]

The range of the Gökdoğan is similar to AIM-120B and it is technological capability is similar to AIM-120D. It has two-way datalink+active RF seeker. The missile can be controlled by a third-party platform. The recent test-fired missile has a two-way datalink up and running.
The range of the Gökdoğan-ER/Block II will be similar to AIM-120C5/7 and it will be similar to AIM-120D in technological capability.
The range of the Gökhan will be similar to Meteor but it will travel to that distance faster. It will be superior to the Meteor in technological capability. It will have a completely new next generation seeker different from the Gökdoğan series.

AIM-120C7 has only a one-way data link so it is possible to update the missile with target data from a third-party platform(TurAF did it with AWACS) but it is not possible to take over the whole engagement.

 

[Tornadoss]

The range of the Gökdoğan is similar to AIM-120B and it is technological capability is similar to AIM-120D. It has two-way datalink+active RF seeker. The missile can be controlled by a third-party platform. The recent test-fired missile has a two-way datalink up and running.
The range of the Gökdoğan-ER/Block II will be similar to AIM-120C5/7 and it will be similar to AIM-120D in technological capability.
The range of the Gökhan will be similar to Meteor but it will travel to that distance faster. It will be superior to the Meteor in technological capability. It will have a completely new next generation seeker different from the Gökdoğan series.

AIM-120C7 has only a one-way data link so it is possible to update the missile with target data from a third-party platform(TurAF did it with AWACS) but it is not possible to take over the whole engagement.

What would be changes from Gökdoğan and Gökdoğan-ER? Change of size? change of fuel for higher efficiency?

 

[TheInsider]

What would be changes from Gökdoğan and Gökdoğan-ER? Change of size? change of fuel for higher efficiency?

Optimized flight and guidance algorithms and optimized rocket engine.

 

[Osman]

The range of aim 120 b is 70-75 km and aim 120 d is 160+ km according to open sources.

 

[TheInsider]

The range of aim 120 b is 70-75 km and aim 120 d is 160+ km according to open sources.

And 100+km for AIM-120C7 but those are effective ranges, not NEZs(no escape zones).

 

[Yasar_TR]

The range of aim 120 b is 70-75 km and aim 120 d is 160+ km according to open sources.

Yes. But, 120D (also known as 120C8) was developed from 120C7 by improving engine and seeker head and navigational parameters. Giving it a larger NEZ envelope. It also has a two way data link where 120C7 has a one way data link.

Aviation Gas Turbines Archives - Flight Plan

www.fi-aeroweb.com

So potentially with Gokdogan, we could be looking at a a 160+ km range a2a missile in future blocks.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

I think that after BVR family Solid fuel Gökdoğan-Er and Ramjet Gokhan BVR missiles, Turkiye will develop a real "AWACS killer" missile similar to Boeing's LRAAM, Russian AA-13 Axehead or DRDO's example. This missile system which I think is probably Ramjet-propelled and will have a maximum range up to 400km and will probably be developed with ARM and active Rf guidance options. Gökdogan-Er, Gökhan and Akbaba missiles will form the technological infrastructure for future Turkish "Awacs killers"

 

[Quasar]

Against Modern enemies and in worst case 1 VS 1 scenario

we may see the full potential of Gökdoğan with the introduction of our national GaN based AESA radar.

-since GaN AESA will be also having its advantages in Low robability of Intercept even compared to other AESAs.

-We know that Gökdoğan have Home on jaming and it also features a two way data link with the launching platform, making jamming even more difficult as the launching platform can guide the missile till the seeker reacquires the target (burn through range)

-Most probably Gökdoğan has? or will have GPS aided internal navigation as well (GPS/INS). Since our pasive detection capabilities are increasing and because of MIUS and MMU ( shots without any radar lock)

 

[Osman]

View topic - No Escape Zone of Missiles • F-16.net

Military aviation forum since 2003, with high quality discussion focusing on the F-16, F-35 and F-22 jet fighters and the C-130.

www.f-16.net

In this site one user gave the nez calculations s/he made like this:

Aim 120 b: 30 km
Aim 120 c: 35 km
Aim 120 d: 70 km
Meteor: 90+ km

I dont know how he or she made these calculations but the difference between b and c models and c and d seem unreasonable to me. Because while max effective range of b is 70 and c 110 km there is only 15 percent increase in nez of c.

 

[I_Love_F16]

View topic - No Escape Zone of Missiles • F-16.net

Military aviation forum since 2003, with high quality discussion focusing on the F-16, F-35 and F-22 jet fighters and the C-130.

www.f-16.net

In this site one user gave the nez calculations s/he made like this:

Aim 120 b: 30 km
Aim 120 c: 35 km
Aim 120 d: 70 km
Meteor: 90+ km

I dont know how he or she made these calculations but the difference between b and c models and c and d seem unreasonable to me. Because while max effective range of b is 70 and c 110 km there is only 15 percent increase in nez of c.

We will never know the exact ranges of these missiles, but keep in mind that you need to be really fast and at high altitudes if you want to increase the range of your missile. Even 30 Km of NEZ seems really high for a AIM120 B/C unless you fire these at really high altitudes.

 

[Osman]

If real effective ranges for modern bvraams are not beyond 70 km, then a 4.5 gen fighter with a eots like irst and meteor like missiles will still have some chance against f 35. Of course f 35 with its low rcs and sensor fusion capacity will have upper hand, but the genaration differences between fighters are a bit exagarrated by amateurs maybe.

 

[Yasar_TR]

View topic - No Escape Zone of Missiles • F-16.net

Military aviation forum since 2003, with high quality discussion focusing on the F-16, F-35 and F-22 jet fighters and the C-130.

www.f-16.net

In this site one user gave the nez calculations s/he made like this:

Aim 120 b: 30 km
Aim 120 c: 35 km
Aim 120 d: 70 km
Meteor: 90+ km

I dont know how he or she made these calculations but the difference between b and c models and c and d seem unreasonable to me. Because while max effective range of b is 70 and c 110 km there is only 15 percent increase in nez of c.

The site you have given is a forum. And the person making the so called calculations is admitting that he is guessing.
Any missile that is not dual thrust or not dual pulse or not a missile with a throttleable ramjet engine, will never give you a definite long NEZ value.
Many factors will effect the range and NEZ value. Some are:
- Altitude at which the missile is fired (higher the better)
- Speed of the plane
- Burn time of missile hence the max speed achievable
- Missile seeker head configuration
- Amount of thrust vectoring and manoeuvring applied
- Altitude at which the missile engages target

A dual thrust missile will have in it’s fuel tank two types of fuel; one that burns quick to accelerate it, and one that burns slow to sustain propulsion longer. These missiles will have longer ranges and better chance of hitting the target. (Like in aim7 sparrow, agm88 harm and sm2 missiles) Aim120 is using the Hercules built rocket. It has a boost-sustain design motor. In other words it has a dual thrust Rocket engine.
A dual pulse missile will have effectively two partitions of fuel. First part will be used to accelerate then missile will coast and then at terminal phase the missile will use second part of fuel to speed up and make a kill. (Like our Hisar and Siper missiles) aim120-D is supposedly using a dual pulse rocket engine.
We all know by now the specs of throttleable ramjet a2a missile, Meteor. This is an air breathing jet engined missile that can travel between 2-4.5 Mach speeds and hence has propulsion in terminal phase through a throttleable ramjet to give almost no chance to it’s target.

 

[Tornadoss]

Is there any news from Tanok- any status?

 

[Heartbang]

4-way carrying rack for MAM-L munitions.

 

[Hexciter]

MAM-C’s plate

 

[Combat-Master]

MAM-C annihilates vehicle and 5 passengers onboard

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548686293001031681

Same MAM-C warhead to be used in RIHAM-C kamikaze drone thats being co-developed by Roketsan and Aselsan

 

[Tsenal]

MAM-C annihilates vehicle and 5 passengers onboard

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548686293001031681

Same MAM-C warhead to be used in RIHAM-C kamikaze drone thats being co-developed by Roketsan and Aselsan

My first time hearing of RIHAM-C. What is it?

 

[Anmdt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550480991986253824

A good series of tweets by Ibrahim Sunnetci on SOM, Cakir.

Also note the mentioned of ASA, smart munition network which enables all smart munitions to be monitored by a network, which allows any member in the network to guide the munition, update target, waypoints and cancel.

It was Gurcan Okumus who first revealed the ASA, in an interview with DefenceTurk, in a series of 'ag merkezli sohbetler' videos, however then, he claimed ASA was a figure of speech and was not linked to a real ongoing project. Altough, the way he spoken of the abbreviation 'ASA' which also translates as 'Wand' made is obvious.