TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,247
Reactions
141 16,269
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Regarding Brahmos’s speed at terminal stage;
First of all this is a ramjet powered missile. It has sustained thrust all through it’s flight envelop. In order for ramjet to function it has to fly at supersonic speeds. Brahmos has a top speed of 2.8-3 Mach at high altitude. But at sea skimming altitudes, I believe the speed drops under 2 Mach. It has around 1.6 Mach speed at terminal stage when sea skimming and manoeuvring. Ramjets although can be started at low speeds they are completely ineffective at subsonic speeds. They do not produce thrust.
@Nilgiri could enlighten us more on this.
I don’t like the design of the missile either. It‘s inlet duct design detracts from sensor effectiveness. But they are developing a scramjet version of this in the form of Brahmos-2 with a speed of above 7-8 Mach. I think they have addressed that shortcoming in that design. A scramjet only becomes operational around a speed of 5 Mach.
 

Nilgiri

Experienced member
Moderator
Aviation Specialist
Messages
9,761
Reactions
119 19,783
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
Regarding Brahmos’s speed at terminal stage;
First of all this is a ramjet powered missile. It has sustained thrust all through it’s flight envelop. In order for ramjet to function it has to fly at supersonic speeds. Brahmos has a top speed of 2.8-3 Mach at high altitude. But at sea skimming altitudes, I believe the speed drops under 2 Mach. It has around 1.6 Mach speed at terminal stage when sea skimming and manoeuvring. Ramjets although can be started at low speeds they are completely ineffective at subsonic speeds. They do not produce thrust.
@Nilgiri could enlighten us more on this.
I don’t like the design of the missile either. It‘s inlet duct design detracts from sensor effectiveness. But they are developing a scramjet version of this in the form of Brahmos-2 with a speed of above 7-8 Mach. I think they have addressed that shortcoming in that design. A scramjet only becomes operational around a speed of 5 Mach.

Yes the basis of the terminal stage kinematics are similar to yakhont/oniks:


When approaching the target, the missile descends to a 10 – 15 m altitude to avoid detection. At low/terminal altitudes, the missile’s maximum speed is 680m/s (Mach 2).


I've never heard of it having to go to subsonic realm because of its seeker acquisition or other issues.

One can also look up the seekers+kinematic constraints for (largely) subsonic cruise missiles that have a (terminal) supersonic terminal stage.

If convo grows, I can try dig out my earlier archives on the larger body of work regarding SM-2 and its development relative to terminal stage trade-offs and all the factors (maneuverability vs seeker vs other factors) relative to most expected and frequent counters (this was 80s era stuff at that time).... i.e developing highest overall probability to intercept as possible.
 

Cabatli_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
5,360
Reactions
81 45,455
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey

The TRG 230 IHA, Turkey's first air-to-ground supersonic missile, was fired from Akıncı. 100 km range reached.


Perfect solution for Aegean. 100km pinpoint accuracy is more than enough to neutralize high value targets with supersonic speeds in terminal phase.

Screenshot_20221216_210417.jpg
Screenshot_20221216_210351.jpg
 

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,247
Reactions
141 16,269
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey

The TRG 230 IHA, Turkey's first air-to-ground supersonic missile, was fired from Akıncı. 100 km range reached.
That is a game changer development.
Akinci class UCAV firing stand off precision strike missiles that can hit their target at high supersonic speeds will be very difficult to intercept.
These missiles have 4+ Mach top speed. At 30000+ feet altitude with even a few hundred kilometre per hour initial speed will mean that the missile won’t have to overcome gravity and it’s 70km ground launched range will be well exceeded into 100++ kilometres, if not doubled.
 

Ammar

Active member
Messages
28
Reactions
207
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Palestine

Brokengineer

Committed member
Messages
239
Reactions
1 480
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
ITs really scary development with this kind of weaponary.
If it continues like that, akinci will be more capable platform than mq9 reaper.
 

Afif

Experienced member
Moderator
Bangladesh Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Bangladesh Moderator
Messages
4,747
Reactions
94 9,068
Nation of residence
Bangladesh
Nation of origin
Bangladesh
Can anyone explain how this control surface works?
Looks like it is fixed at the rear end!
1671217693917.png

@Yasar
 
Last edited:

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,247
Reactions
141 16,269
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Can anyone explain how this control surface works?
Looks like it is fixed at the rear end!
View attachment 51461
@Yasar
Back end is not fixed. The fins at the back are tilted and rotate to stabilise flight. Canard controlled rockets may need rotating tail fins for flight stabilisation.
Canard-controlled missiles are commonly used by designers. These missiles have, induced roll problem generated by the canard tip vortices. The idea of free- to-rotate tail fins has been used by designers of missiles. NASA too tested a number of roll-control devices as part of their aerodynamic research program. Tests were conducted with missile airframes having free-to-rotate tail fins, not only to stabilize the missile longitudinally but also eliminate unwanted induced rolling moments that were generated.
 
Last edited:

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom