TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[TheInsider]

Does "Ghost" indicate internal weapons bay?

"NEB-1 and NEB-2 Ghost" Concrete Penetrating Bombs produced by the Ministry of National Defense R&D Center.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947564547403092426

It might be. The difference between Neb-1 and Neb-2 is that the second stage is a thermobaric explosive, as far as I know.

 

[TheInsider]

Do you know what happened to Block 2 and 3?

There is an anti-ship variant, but I don't know which block it is. Probably either block 2 or 3. I don't know why Roketsan named this block 4. This is a completely new missile. If this missile has 938mm diameter Cenk will probably have 1250mm diameter. That will put Cenk in an interesting place.

 

[TheInsider]

I thought Tayfun Block 4 missile would have a diameter of around 750 to 800mm. It has a 328mm bigger diameter than the current Tayfun. This is what i would expect from Cenk. A 900+mm diameter class missile.

Tayfun has a volume of ~1,90 cubic meters (πr^2*h) (3,14*0.305^2*6.5). It weighs 2300kg. Average weight per cubic meter is ~1210kg.
Tayfun block 4 has a volume of ~6,91 cubic meters. It weighs 7200kg. Average weight per cubic meter is ~1041kg. This is 14% lighter per cubic meter compared to Tayfun block 1.

To compare, one of the latest solid fuel ballistic missiles of Iran is Kheibar Shekan. Its diameter is 760mm and lenght is 11.4 meters. Total weight is 6300kg. Average weight per cubic meter is 1218kg.

Kheibar Shekan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

People ask from DM. Being lighter per cubic meter is a good thing. It increases range and shows our technology is ahead compared to the competition.

 

[Yasar_TR]

As discussed before, Roketsan clearly state in their site that the guidance system of the Tayfun is GOLIS : Go-Onto-Location-In-Space.
This type of guidance is specific to hit stationary targets.
There has been talk and rumours about the development of a tactical ballistic missile with capability to hit moving targets like ships ever since Bora has been active. But nothing so far has materialised.

A missile that weighs 7200kg before launch, even when empty will have a substantial weight to enable it to hit targets at very high supersonic speeds. It will probably travel a good part of its terminal phase in hypersonic speeds. That will make it very difficult to be intercepted.

 

[Strong AI]

As discussed before, Roketsan clearly state in their site that the guidance system of the Tayfun is GOLIS : Go-Onto-Location-In-Space.
This type of guidance is specific to hit stationary targets.
There has been talk and rumours about the development of a tactical ballistic missile with capability to hit moving targets like ships ever since Bora has been active. But nothing so far has materialised.

Yes, but isn't this only valid for Block 1 for now? And we know that Tayfun is already capable of doing maneuvers to have a higher chance of hit probability.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Yes, but isn't this only valid for Block 1 for now? And we know that Tayfun is already capable of doing maneuvers to have a higher chance of hit probability.

Making mid course manoeuvres to trick AD systems and being able to hit a moving target are two different things. When the missile has a two way datalink to perform controlled course corrections during flight then it may hit a moving target. Imaging Infrared seeker is another method. But at such high speeds the camera will not operate due to intense heat generated.

We know the amount of emphasis both Roketsan and Tubitak Sage place on precision guidance of our missiles, rather than their range. So it is logical that they are working on a version that will target ships. Besides, there has been so much leaked rumours about it. But as usual, we may learn we have developed a version of it through Greek sources before ours.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Do you know what happened to Block 2 and 3?

I hope one can be anti ship variant , other anti bunker variant

 

[Strong AI]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947676384798871656

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947676330075574307

Will Gökbora compete with Gökhan or did they change the name?

 

[Pokemonte13]

Will Gökbora compete with Gökhan or did they change the name?

Probably compete it has less range but with foldable wings you can put more side by side

 

[TheInsider]

Gökbora is probably a solid fuel Ramjet, while Gökhan is gel based. The range of the Gökbora is announced as 100 nautical miles (185km).

 

[Pokemonte13]

Then whats the point of having two missiles that are very similar maybe price one is for F16/Hürjet the other for stealth aircraft

 

[Turkic]

Gökbora is probably a solid fuel Ramjet, while Gökhan is gel based. The range of the Gökbora is announced as 100 nautical miles (185km).

Gökbora is shorter than 4 meters. Could it be for side internal bays of Kaan and Kızılelma?

 

[Strong AI]

Gökbora is probably a solid fuel Ramjet, while Gökhan is gel based. The range of the Gökbora is announced as 100 nautical miles (185km).

Why does Akbaba take so long?

 

[TheInsider]

Gökbora is shorter than 4 meters. Could it be for side internal bays of Kaan and Kızılelma?

I'm also suspicious of this. It will probably fit side internal bays of KAAN. It is compatible with internal weapon bays of Kızılelma there is no doubt about that.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947675625118175540

 

[CAN_TR]

Gökbora is probably a solid fuel Ramjet, while Gökhan is gel based. The range of the Gökbora is announced as 100 nautical miles (185km).

From 0:55 on... with a range exceeding 100nm.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947675625118175540

 

[BalkanTurk90]

From 0:55 on... with a range exceeding 100nm.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947675625118175540

I hope its not Gökhan with name change because the war doctrine is changing and we need long range air -air missile 300+ km .
Someone at IDEF should ask what happened with Gökhan , same with CENK its tayfun block 4 CENK or not ? ?
A missile 10 meter 938mm diameter can easy reach 1400km but i would like to make it reach 500km and all space leave to warhead like 5 ton bomb

 

[Hannibal]

Maybe Gökbora is equivalent to meteor/PL-15, and Gökhan for ultra long range BVR like AIM-260 or PL-21?

 

[Yasar_TR]

From 0:55 on... with a range exceeding 100nm.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947675625118175540

This is truly a rabbit out of a hat instant.
We were waiting for a liquid/gel fuelled ramjet a2a missile. They most likely gave us a solid fuelled ramjet that is small enough to fit in to internal bays of KAAN and even KE.

Gökbora is probably a solid fuel Ramjet, while Gökhan is gel based. The range of the Gökbora is announced as 100 nautical miles (185km).

It is too small to have a fuel tank, compared to the given approximate length of 5m of liquid fuelled Gökhan. It has to be solid fuelled.

This is similar to Meteor. Meteor is 3.9 metres.
The important points are:
When will it be ready? At what stage of it’s development is it?

Gökhan was too long and too heavy for an a2a missile that was supposed to fit on internal bays of KAAN or KE.
They can carry on developing it as an AShM now.

 

[Hannibal]

This is truly a rabbit out of a hat instant.
We were waiting for a liquid/gel fuelled ramjet a2a missile. They most likely gave us a solid fuelled ramjet that is small enough to fit in to internal bays of KAAN and even KE.

It is too small to have a fuel tank, compared to the given approximate length of 5m of liquid fuelled Gökhan. It has to be solid fuelled.

This is similar to Meteor. Meteor is 3.9 metres.
The important points are:
When will it be ready? At what stage of it’s development is it?

Gökhan was too long and too heavy for an a2a missile that was supposed to fit on internal bays of KAAN or KE.
They can carry on developing it as an AShM now.

Gökhan is going to be equivalent to AIM-260 or PL-21 that’s what I’m thinking.

Gökbora equivalent to Meteor.

 

[uçuyorum]

I was also considering is Tayfun block 4 was just name change for Cenk for standardization but the missile is different from the Cenk we saw in videos which has a distinct nose. I wonder if Gökbora replaces Gökhan project or complements it but it would be nice if we have both, Gökbora for IWB and Gökhan for deterring other 4th gen or large assets like awacs, somewhat similar to AIM 174. Also nice that it is confirmed to fit KE IWB. Hope all A2A missiles get aesa seeker