TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Yasar_TR]

Yeah, but this test is not about AKINCI. That's why i posted it in this thread. AKINCI could already drop LGK-82 back in 2022.

Can you then enlighten us about what this test is in aid of?
Because I can’t see why this test has been done again.

LGK-81 and LGK-82 had already performed firing tests this year from Anka-3 and Aksungur as well as from Akinci (in 2022) previous to this test. What was so specific about this test?

TUSAŞ’s Aksungur UCAV performs tests with LGK-81 and LGK-82 | TURDEF

Turkish Aerospace’s twin-engine Aksungur UCAV conducted two laser-guided bomb tests using TEI’s PD-170 national engine and precision kits developed by ASELSAN.

turdef.com

ANKA III Drone Confirms its Versatility as Combat Platform with Successful Firing of LGK-82 Guided Munition

ANKA III Drone Confirms its Versatility as Combat Platform with Successful Firing of LGK-82 Guided Munition

armyrecognition.com

Turkish combat drone Akıncı undergoes 1st laser-guided firing test

Turkey’s landmark combat drone has undergone a successful firing test with a laser-guided missile, achieving yet another milestone in the integration...

www.dailysabah.com

 

[Pokemonte13]

Can you then enlighten us about what this test is in aid of?
Because I can’t see why this test has been done again.

LGK-81 and LGK-82 had already performed firing tests this year from Anka-3 and Aksungur as well as from Akinci (in 2022) previous to this test. What was so specific about this test?

TUSAŞ’s Aksungur UCAV performs tests with LGK-81 and LGK-82 | TURDEF

Turkish Aerospace’s twin-engine Aksungur UCAV conducted two laser-guided bomb tests using TEI’s PD-170 national engine and precision kits developed by ASELSAN.

turdef.com

ANKA III Drone Confirms its Versatility as Combat Platform with Successful Firing of LGK-82 Guided Munition

ANKA III Drone Confirms its Versatility as Combat Platform with Successful Firing of LGK-82 Guided Munition

armyrecognition.com

Turkish combat drone Akıncı undergoes 1st laser-guided firing test

Turkey’s landmark combat drone has undergone a successful firing test with a laser-guided missile, achieving yet another milestone in the integration...

www.dailysabah.com

Maybe different environment or a different bomb to see how it performs under different characteristics

 

[Pokemonte13]

what are these for?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Why so aggressive?
ANKA-3 and AKSUNGUR droped LGK first time, so it were weapon qualification/integration tests for those platforms (more like platform related, don't know to call it that way).
AKINCI droped it already in 2022, now seems like they are testing the LGK, which makes it not AKINCI related.

Not intentional! You may have perceived it as aggressive. But it wasn’t my intention.
Going back to my question; Your explanation still hasn’t clarified the questions in my mind. Having tested it in 2022, why did they feel the need to test it again?
Has something changed with the munition? Or has the Akinci started to use different targeting systems? etc etc?

 

[Agha Sher]

This is what i mean with some examples. Look how the accuracy of those munitions improved over time. So for me these are only munition tests.

Kuzgun-SS, first video almost miss, second video bull's eye.

Now LGK-82, again first video almost miss, second video bull's eye.

Understanding how CEP is calculated, it is very difficult to draw a conclusion based on your examples. Almost misses are also a hit - hitting the surface area designated is a hit - and it could just be chance that you hit right in the middle or a bit away from the middle.

 

[RMZN]

View attachment 76888
what are these for?

Aselsan HEDET

 

[Yasar_TR]

@Strong AI ,
That explanation has not really met my expectations.

In this first 2022 firing video, they don’t show how well they have done.
In the last video they have actually nearly missed the target. They hit the edge of a target circle.
These munitions are using Laser targeting for precision strikes. Normally laser targeting is good enough for moving targets that may be travelling at up to 70-80 km/hour. But Aselsan, in their documentation, doesn’t specify this for moving targets and the accuracy they specify is better than 10metres.

The lack of target hitting pictures in the 2022 video, brings in to minds the possibility of serious shortcomings on that 2022 firing, so that they were pushed in to trying to correct it in this last one.

Here Aksungur does a better job.

Anka-3’s firing is also at the edge of the target.

https://wwwcdn.aselsan.com/api/file/LGK_ENG.pdf

EDIT:
CEP means 50% of shots will fall in to the inner circle, 43.7% will fall in to the second circle.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I have literally posted the video with the result in it, it is the first lgk-82 video in my post. When you press play, it begins right before the result (they show it like for 1 second).



View attachment 76897



Abi let's just agree to disagree.

You have given up too quickly.
But I think I may have solved the two tests dilemma!
Although there was no real picture of target being hit in the first 2022 video, the PT2 Akinci is using a TB2’s laser as guidance. There is no FLIR here. So Akinci is just a munition mule here.

In the second test the PT7 Akinci has it’s own laser designator FLIR. (10th second)

 

[Yasar_TR]

Abi did you watch the video in my post? It is that test from 2022. The video was posted 3 years ago. 3 years ago was 2022. Here is the picture.

FLIR 2022

View attachment 76901

Result 2022

View attachment 76900

Then there is something not right. Same Video I have has an Akinci with no FLIR and with FLIR (same picture you shared)

Nevertheless they clearly show that they are targeting via laser beam coming out of TB2.

So I wonder if this year’s test involved no TB2 .

 

[Agha Sher]

So is it just coincidence that every new munition test is more accurate than the previous older test? Is it only a CEP thing?

While they do conduct these test to get data that can help improve the munition, I believe I have seen secondary tests hitting less in the middle than primary tests.

 

[Yasar_TR]

@Agha Sher , @Strong AI

That is a 3820mm long Mk84 series bomb Akinci is carrying..
According to Roketsan the ER version of TRG 300 (370mm in diameter) is 5m in length. (See above)
There is space there to accommodate the 5m long missile under Akinci’s belly. Especially if they move the FLIR back a bit where there is already a cut out.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I think you missed a zero there.



Did you take into account where the Rack/Rail of UAV-300 is positioned? I don't think you can change the position of the Rack/Rail on UAV-300, which means it looks like the landing gear would be in its way.

View attachment 76957

If the bomb is 3840 mm long, there is a 417 mm distance to the landing gear.

View attachment 76959

Ideally the bomb this heavy has to be placed where it will have least impact on the centre of gravity of the plane, and have to be well aligned with the fuselage. Otherwise it will negatively affect the manoeuvrability and stability of the plane, making it more difficult to fly. But if it is a matter of being able to fit it in to a set and limited slot, then it is a matter of putting up with the difficulties and just adjust the missile in place and integrate it by making certain adjustments with where the rail is positioned and where the FLIR can be, plus if need be add or subtract weights in right places to optimise for the munition placement.

My main point of starting this discussion relies on the fact that Roketsan has named this missile, IHA-300ER. In other words, it is meant for a UAV. Be it for Akinci or Anka-3 or KE. But for a cumbersome and slow UAV like Akinci, this should prove to be an indispensable weapon of choice with its “stand-off” deployment capability. Both the Baykar and Roketsan should do everything to integrate it in to Akinci.
If the analogy would fit;
You can’t send a donkey to do a horse’s work. But you can send a donkey with similar load that a horse can carry.


Edit

I don’t know how good this site is.But it too clearly states that Trg300ER has been specifically designed to be suitable for Akinci!

ROKETSAN'dan 500 kilometreden fazla menzile sahip İHA 300 ER balistik füze!

ROKETSAN'dan çığır açan yenilik: İHA 300 ER! 5 metre uzunluğundaki bu aerobalistik füze 500 km+ menziliyle düşmanları uzaktan vuruyor. Detayları IDEF 2025'ten hazırladığımız bu videomuzda!

www.donanimhaber.com

 

[Ripley]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1955523021978112383

“German Defense Expert Jens Bastian
On the Thermobaric Bomb

NATO should use its power. It should force Turkey to comply with certain conditions. For example, how such a weapon of mass destruction was developed, where it was exported, and where it cannot be used.”

Totally arbitrary, purely political, phony classification, utter BS.
Another attempt to restrict Turkish military operational capabilities. When you can’t embargo them any more, tag phony mass destruction label on their own domestic systems and apply pressure thru lobby efforts as much as you can.

Note to mod team:
the bomb is neither smart nor a missile but this would be the best thread I thought.

 

[Tornadoss]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1955523021978112383

“German Defense Expert Jens Bastian
On the Thermobaric Bomb

NATO should use its power. It should force Turkey to comply with certain conditions. For example, how such a weapon of mass destruction was developed, where it was exported, and where it cannot be used.”

Totally arbitrary, purely political, phony classification, utter BS.
Another attempt to restrict Turkish military operational capabilities. When you can’t embargo them any more, tag phony mass destruction label on their own domestic systems and apply pressure thru lobby efforts as much as you can.

Note to mod team:
the bomb is neither smart nor a missile but this would be the best thread I thought.

Jens Bastian is senior economic research fellow for southeast Europe at ELIAMEP (Hellenic Foundation for Foreign & European Policy)

ΕΛΙΑΜΕΠ | Jens Bastian

Γνώση πριν απο τη Δράση

www.eliamep.gr

Not surprising.

 

[Ripley]

Jens Bastian is senior economic research fellow for southeast Europe at ELIAMEP (Hellenic Foundation for Foreign & European Policy)

ΕΛΙΑΜΕΠ | Jens Bastian

Γνώση πριν απο τη Δράση

www.eliamep.gr

Not surprising.

When you can’t embargo them any more, tag phony mass destruction label on their own domestic systems and apply pressure thru lobby efforts as much as you can.

 

[Huelague]

Jens Bastian is senior economic research fellow for southeast Europe at ELIAMEP (Hellenic Foundation for Foreign & European Policy)

ΕΛΙΑΜΕΠ | Jens Bastian

Γνώση πριν απο τη Δράση

www.eliamep.gr

Not surprising.

Spooken like real Zionist puppet.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Many people do not realize what Erdoğan's government has given Turkey as a Gift. The new GAZAP and NB2 Hayalet weapons are far more than ordinary bombs – they push the boundaries of conventional warfare for Turkey to their absolute limits.
These bombs are also scalable in terms of their effect.

Potential adversaries can at best try to catch up with these capabilities, but the deterrent effect remains. It is non-negotiable and irreversible. The only step beyond this would be the use of nuclear weapons – an option that is condemned internationally and would immediately make the user a target of other nuclear powers due to fears of destabilization.

In other words, Turkey has achieved a quasi-nuclear deterrent without nuclear weapons. This also explains the remarkable silence throughout Europe – especially in France, Germany, and Greece – as well as in the United States and Israel. Strategically speaking, everyone is surprised, even shocked. The balance of power has undoubtedly been realigned.

 

[Sanchez]

Especially if they move the FLIR back a bit where there is already a cut out.

FLIR there should be retractable; and even if not, it can simply be removed for special usecases like sending bunker busters and thermobaric bombs. If we have air superiority to send a slow moving non maneuverable drone like Akıncı over an area, we can send a TB2 as well to lase the target.

In other words, Turkey has achieved a quasi-nuclear deterrent without nuclear weapons. This also explains the remarkable silence throughout Europe – especially in France, Germany, and Greece – as well as in the United States and Israel. Strategically speaking, everyone is surprised, even shocked. The balance of power has undoubtedly been realigned.

Nonsense.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Nonsense.

Why???

These weapons represent the highest conventional level.
Don't forget that the ammunition can be scaled up.
Its effectiveness can be further improved through a better ignition mechanism, warhead design, and chemical mixture, all of which can be optimized. Not to mention the higher weight classes that can be manufactured both GAZAP and Hayalet.

Even if another state catches up technologically, it cannot simply use them without risking a symmetrical response.

And because there is no further conventional level above that, any escalation from there inevitably leads to nuclear weapons.

That is precisely what constitutes the quasi-nuclear deterrent effect—not just the physical destructive power, but the strategic position on the escalation ladder.

Once again, I'm only concerned with the strategic escalation ladder with these bombs.

We're already at the top in this case, there's nothing more in between, at least not at the moment. Anything above that is nuclear, regardless of whether it's a 25-kiloton tactical nuclear bomb or a 200-kiloton strategic nuclear bomb.

If not, it would be nice to explain why you disagree.

 

[Zafer]

FLIR there should be retractable; and even if not, it can simply be removed for special usecases like sending bunker busters and thermobaric bombs. If we have air superiority to send a slow moving non maneuverable drone like Akıncı over an area, we can send a TB2 as well to lase the target.


Nonsense.

You should consider German reaction to Gazap before nonsensing.