TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Huelague]

What we expect from a missile strike? Accuracy. Fast movement. To not be countable by AMS.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I am very skeptical about the need of hypersonic missiles at all.

* If we want fast delivery of warhead we can use old good ballistic missile.
* If we want covert and cheaper delivery we can use terrain hugging stealthy cruise missile.
* If we want very cheap delivery we can use glide bomb.

As Syria showed that even newest multiplayer Russian air defenses cant do anything with these. If we want to increase chances even more we can use EW and cheap false targets.

Hypersonic cruise missiles are extremely expensive, bulky and unclear how can they guide while surrounded by plasma at all. Good just for PR stunt.

I agree hypersonic missiles are very expensive. Their speed, altitude and range are the plus sides though. Due to the scramjet propulsion the rate of speed can be altered during flight (like the ramjet meteor missile). It can literally cruise at around 4 Mach towards it‘s target, then during the final phase when it is about to get in to enemy AD range it can speed up to 7-8 Mach. Because of this the range of the missile can be extended. Also theoretically a scramjet propelled missile can reach 250000 ft (75km) in altitude.
Ballistic missiles are also hypersonic during part of their flight. A heavy enough and aerodynamic ballistic missile would hit it’s target at hypersonic speeds. But they do not cruise. Their trajectories are set.
I believe that what you are suggesting has merits. But developing a scramjet missile would open other avenues to the force that has it.

 

[Era_shield]

You should take all Russian claims with huge grain of salt. Plasma cloud does not make missile invisible at all. But it makes missile totally blind.

The same mechanism that makes it almost blind makes it almost invisible to radar. This idea doesn't come from Russia, it's known from early US ABM tests. That doesn't mean it can't be detected but it does make it harder. I doubt Russia has the tech to make an accurate hypersonic missile, probably this missile just uses inertial guidance which would make it not very accurate, but enough to hit a base or other strategic site.

 

[AzeriTank]

The same mechanism that makes it almost blind makes it almost invisible to radar. This idea doesn't come from Russia, it's known from early US ABM tests. That doesn't mean it can't be detected but it does make it harder. I doubt Russia has the tech to make an accurate hypersonic missile, probably this missile just uses inertial guidance which would make it not very accurate, but enough to hit a base or other strategic site.

the thing is when you fire it with nuclear heads, you dont really need to be accurate.. thats the Russian point there.. but, Russia is dead these, its all about bribes from universities to everything. they are able to make rockets, but other than that, i wouldn't trust them much

 

[Turko]

I really wonder how much HİSAR-A system costs. According to internet finland bought 5 unit Umkhonto system ( radar+missiles+VlS+system) for 150 million usd. İt makes 30 million usd per unit.

Also again according to internet C-Dome total system cost 30-40 million usd, however one Tamir missile costs just 50k.


I cant understand why they are too expensive what is most expensive part of those.
So should we assume that HİSAR-A will cost minumum 30 million usd and MAR-D radar 10 million usd ? İt doesn't make sense.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I really wonder how much HİSAR-A costs. According to internet finland bought 5 unit Umkhonto system ( radar+missiles+VlS+system) for 150 million usd. İt makes 30 million usd per unit.

Also again according to internet C-Dome total system cost 30-40 million usd, however one Tamir missile costs just 50k.


I cant understand why they are too expensive what is most expensive part of those.
So should we assume that HİSAR-A will cost minumum 30 million usd and MAR-D radar 10 million usd ? İt doesn't make sense.

Usually what constitutes as final price of a strategic item like an air defence system is not the cost of that item. But what people are prepared to pay for it.
1. A country producing an AD system spends a lot of money developing it. They need to recover this cost as quickly as possible. So this cost is added to the final price.
2. Know-How portion of the AD system has to be paid for by the purchaser even if the purchaser is not given the know-how. (We paid 1.2 billion dollars to the first portion of the S400 with no TOT)
3. Purchasing of such multiple Systems makes the final price quite high. To get the deal finalised it has become almost customary for back-handers and bribes. These are also added to the final price. Quite often buyer and seller both gain from this.
A simple example is Abrams A1 tank sold to Saudi Arabia in 1989;
315 tanks sold for 1.2 billion dollars for tanks alone. But with spares and ammo etc total bill was 3+billion dollars. Making it approximately 3.7 million and 10 million dollars each respectively.
At the same time most sources were putting the cost of this tank at around 2.4 million dollars to the US army. This cost included development and profit too.
(please don’t take this price as the norm for today. Because since 1989 cost base has shifted drastically)

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a216020.pdf

 

[500]

I really wonder how much HİSAR-A costs. According to internet finland bought 5 unit Umkhonto system ( radar+missiles+VlS+system) for 150 million usd. İt makes 30 million usd per unit.

Each missile should cost around 200 k USD

Also again according to internet C-Dome total system cost 30-40 million usd, however one Tamir missile costs just 50k.

I cant understand why they are too expensive what is most expensive part of those.
So should we assume that HİSAR-A will cost minumum 30 million usd and MAR-D radar 10 million usd ? İt doesn't make sense.

Iron Dome Battery costs 42 mln, Tamir missile - 160 K. Main cost ir the radar. It is more powerful than S-400 radar.

 

[Turko]

Each missile should cost around 200 k USD


Iron Dome Battery costs 42 mln, Tamir missile - 160 K. Main cost ir the radar. It is more powerful than S-400 radar.

Tamir missile is renown for cheap cost and has been used for engaging cheap artillery rockets.

 

[Combat-Master]

Deliveries of KGK Guidance Kits Continue
-110+km range
-<10m CEP

 

[Yasar_TR]

Deliveries of KGK Guidance Kits Continue
-110+km range
-<10m CEP

These bombs are amongst the best TSK has in it’s arsenal. They can not be detected by AD systems. They are a stand-off ammunition in essence. Just think ! A 1000kg dumb-bomb being delivered to it’s target with pinpoint accuracy from over 110-120 km away! And at what cost? I seem to remember reading, KGK adding approximately 30K dollars to the cost of the MK83 bomb.

 

[Combat-Master]

These bombs are amongst the best TSK has in it’s arsenal. They can not be detected by AD systems. They are a stand-off ammunition in essence. Just think ! A 1000kg dumb-bomb being delivered to it’s target with pinpoint accuracy from over 110-120 km away! And at what cost? I seem to remember reading, KGK adding approximately 30K dollars to the cost of the MK83 bomb.

They can be detected, if a 120mm mortar can be detected by C-RAM so can this. Eitherway, it definetely is a excellent and cost-effective stand-off muntion.

 

[Yasar_TR]

They can be detected, if a 120mm mortar can be detected by C-RAM so can this. Eitherway, it definetely is a excellent and cost-effective stand-off muntion.

Ok may be detected! But shouldn’t they be very difficult to detect and hit due to low profile it gives? As our KGK and HGK systems are almost copies of JDAM & JSOW and hence have been designed to be stealthier ! Not quite the same shape as a 120mm mortar!

quote:
Both AGM-154 variants use its pop-out wings to glide up to 70 miles when aircraft release it at high altitude. At lower altitudes, it can still sail approximately 15 miles from the launch point to its target. It also has a low-observable shape to help reduce the chance of the enemy detecting and attempting to shoot it down, and give them less time to do so even if they do spot the weapon before it hits its mark.
unquote.
orange one kgk.
grey one jsow

 

[Bogeyman]

The tests of the SOM cruise missile continue.

 

[Huelague]

They can be detected, if a 120mm mortar can be detected by C-RAM so can this. Eitherway, it definetely is a excellent and cost-effective stand-off muntion.

But much harder to engage.

 

[adenl]

View attachment 13765

The tests of the SOM cruise missile continue.

Notice the orange missile on the wingtip is a dummy AMRAAM fitted with cameras to the film the release of the SOM. You can see the camera window clearly between the tip of the missile and the tip of the wingpylon.

 

[Huelague]

View attachment 13765

The tests of the SOM cruise missile continue.

What are the testing? They are in serial production process.

 

[Test7]

If I'm not mistaken, this is SOM-J. There is a significant difference in size and shape of seeker with the missile on the other wing.

 

[Combat-Master]

If I'm not mistaken, this is SOM-J. There is a significant difference in size and shape of seeker with the missile on the other wing.

Yes either SOM-J or integration testing of KTJ-3200 indigenous jet engine.

 

[Reviewbrah]

SOM-Jİ missile - Indian variant

 

[Yasar_TR]

View attachment 13765

The tests of the SOM cruise missile continue.

I have a feeling that this is the long awaited C version of the SOM missile that will be able to target moving sea targets.
It is a real shame that we still do not have an operational version of this missile that can hit moving sea targets. Hopefully this will be the answer.