TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[adenl]

The Ada's are such beauties. Can't wait for the I-class to be fully kitted out.

 

[Combat-Master]

View attachment 13495

Damn bro, that naval portfolio is growing so fast! Who would have thought this 15 years ago when we were arguing about 3D drawings

 

[Yasar_TR]

Damn bro, that naval portfolio is growing so fast! Who would have thought this 15 years ago when we were arguing about 3D drawings

Of these 4 , I like the Tork anti-torpedo torpedo. All our surface ships and subs should have a good number of these in their inventories. The name of the game in any battle is “survivability” . So for naval platforms, Tork will help that happen.

 

[Zafer]

Count Zoka too, the decoy.

ZOKA – Akustik Torpido Karşı Tedbir Karıştırıcı ve Aldatıcıları

ASELSAN Üretimi ZOKA - Akustik Torpido Karşı Tedbir Karıştırıcı ve Aldatıcıları Denizaltıya torpido fırlatıldığı an denizaltı bunu tespit eder ve

mavivatan.net

 

[azaher77]

More photos

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1357597896330407936

 

[adenl]

More photos

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1357597896330407936

Nice to see the video images live-streamed from the drone on the screens of the ship. Perhaps the drone can be controlled from the ship itself?

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Damn bro, that naval portfolio is growing so fast! Who would have thought this 15 years ago when we were arguing about 3D drawings

From 3D to reality, Temren, MRAShM and Gezgin are coming soon bro

 

[Nilgiri]

guys, this is the guided munitions thread....

 

[Test7]

Posts moved to related threads

Çay Bahçesi

Iran and Turkey become drone powers "Likes of Turks" :ROFLMAO:

defencehub.live

https://defencehub.live/threads/suggestion.57/page-9#post-50327

 

[Ecderha]

Target Wreck

 

[azaher77]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1357670825860677633

With the Ex-Proof Vibration / Shock Test Device with 200kN force capacity, environmental tests of live ammunition can be carried out safely

 

[what]

Hyperschallwaffen: Nur eine Fata Morgana?

Zwei US-Wissenschaftler bezeichnen die neuartigen Waffensysteme in einer Untersuchung als Luftspiegelung. Die Diskussion ist auch für Deutschland nützlich.

www.heise.de

A German article from the German Heise / Technology review on why hypersonic weapons are more hype than they a worth it. I translated it with deepl which usually works well for German/English. Posting this because it was a topic here a couple days/weeks ago.

Hypersonic weapons are considered the next big thing in intercontinental warfare. That's because missiles that race through the atmosphere at several times the speed of sound are designed to defeat early warning systems and missile defense weapons. Now two U.S. scientists say that even if such weapons do exist, they are useless. They cannot have the capabilities attributed to these fictitious weapons at all - it would not be technically possible.

That's the conclusion of a study by David Wright, a physicist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Cameron L. Tracy, a materials scientist at the Union of Concerned Scientists - a group that advocates for arms control, among other things. In their paper, the researchers calculate terminal velocity, range and surface temperature of hypothetical supersonic weapons using a computer model - and come to their sobering conclusions. If this were just a discussion among experts, the story would already end here. However, the analysis becomes a political issue because the U.S. has invested more than three billion dollars in the development of such weapons in 2020.
Holey shield instead of indomitable weapon

The criticism is not really new, however: Before Wright and Tracy, however, other experts had already pointed out that hypersonic weapons could be "hype." Last year, for example, safety researcher Ivan Oelrich stated in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists: "Most of the envisioned missions could be achieved more cheaply and with less technical risk by modified intercontinental ballistic missiles."

In particular, Oelrich would not accept the argument that hypersonic weapons are impregnable and therefore a game-changer in warfare. After all, even nuclear intercontinental missiles are not as easy to defend against as the term "missile shield" suggests. And political scientist Franz-Stefan Gady added to TR in April 2020 that hypersonic weapons do not pose a qualitatively new threat, because defense against ballistic missiles also succeeds "more badly than well." Despite $35 billion in investment, the U.S. missile shield fails to shoot down more than 50 percent of targets in tests, he said.

The most remarkable thing about this paper, however, is not the result. It is the realization that the emperor is naked - the realization that the fabled capabilities of hypersonic weapons have gone unquestioned for so long only because they have been "socially constructed" in a network of politicians, researchers and corporations.
Increased tendency to exaggerate

What do we care about that in Germany? After all, no hypersonic weapons are developed here, right? True, but the effect described is independent of the specific technology. Both in the military sector and among high-tech companies, there is a strong tendency to exaggerate one's own capabilities without measure in order to demoralize and deter potential competitors.

If the two sectors mix, the effect seems to be significantly amplified. At the same time, the "necessary" secrecy makes independent verification of announced capabilities extremely difficult. It does not take any prophetic skills to imagine that the potential use of AI in the Bundeswehr could also be subject to similar dynamics. It is not too late to turn this around. The discussion about hypersonic weapons should be a lesson to us.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

[500]

The future of battlefield dominance will be governed by the speed, quality and quantity of your missile arsenal.
Russians are on the right track here. They know they can not compete with US’s carrier fleet and air dominance over the battlefield. So they are focusing on hypersonic missiles like Kinzhal and Zircon.
Of these especially zircon is revolutionary. It is after initial launch solid fuel stage, scramjet powered. Has a range of 1000km and has flown at speeds in excess of 8mach to reach it’s target. Most importantly it is supposed to create a plasma cloud as it is flying through dense air which stops radar signals penetrating it. Hence making it impervious to enemy defences.
This is the type of technology we should be working on. This is the future! US has no defences against it.
View attachment 13052

3M22 Zircon – Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance

missiledefenseadvocacy.org

Why Russia's Hypersonic Missiles Can't Be Seen on Radar

The speed of hypersonic weapons are changing the way the world's military minds think about the future of great power conflicts in ways no one could have predicted.

www.military.com

You should take all Russian claims with huge grain of salt. Plasma cloud does not make missile invisible at all. But it makes missile totally blind.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1357670825860677633

With the Ex-Proof Vibration / Shock Test Device with 200kN force capacity, environmental tests of live ammunition can be carried out safely

We usually talk about finished products when mostly these auxiliary establishments are at least as important. At least from the economical aspect. Bravo!

 

[Yasar_TR]

Hyperschallwaffen: Nur eine Fata Morgana?

Zwei US-Wissenschaftler bezeichnen die neuartigen Waffensysteme in einer Untersuchung als Luftspiegelung. Die Diskussion ist auch für Deutschland nützlich.

www.heise.de

A German article from the German Heise / Technology review on why hypersonic weapons are more hype than they a worth it. I translated it with deepl which usually works well for German/English. Posting this because it was a topic here a couple days/weeks ago.

There is a lot of waffle but no substance in this article. If you say something is crap. You have to prove why and how it is so. This article is far from achieving that.

 

[Yasar_TR]

You should take all Russian claims with huge grain of salt. Plasma cloud does not make missile invisible at all. But it makes missile totally blind.

Most claims when it comes to military matters are either exaggerated or kept half secret. Russians tend to exaggerate more than most. But there is a lot of hype about their hypersonic missiles like zircon and kinzhal. Although they give our 8 and 12 Mach speeds for these missiles, US has only been able to track them at speeds in excess of 6 and 7 Mach which still puts them in hypersonic range.
Even in an article by militar.com which is a US based site founded by ex veterans, it makes a point of the seriousness of these missiles.
If their threats to US assets were not substantiated, US would not be developing their own hypervelocity systems.
Even if the plasma cloud appears to be far fetched, the sheer speed at which these missiles travel, poses a great threat to any military asset. But there are enough technical data on the net to suggest that plasma cloud formation is possible and there are electronics powerful enough that can send signal through this cloud.
I suggest reading articles on “stealth by plasma cloud” !

Why Russia's Hypersonic Missiles Can't Be Seen on Radar

The speed of hypersonic weapons are changing the way the world's military minds think about the future of great power conflicts in ways no one could have predicted.

www.military.com

 

[500]

Most claims when it comes to military matters are either exaggerated or kept half secret. Russians tend to exaggerate more than most. But there is a lot of hype about their hypersonic missiles like zircon and kinzhal. Although they give our 8 and 12 Mach speeds for these missiles, US has only been able to track them at speeds in excess of 6 and 7 Mach which still puts them in hypersonic range.
Even in an article by militar.com which is a US based site founded by ex veterans, it makes a point of the seriousness of these missiles.
If their threats to US assets were not substantiated, US would not be developing their own hypervelocity systems.
Even if the plasma cloud appears to be far fetched, the sheer speed at which these missiles travel, poses a great threat to any military asset. But there are enough technical data on the net to suggest that plasma cloud formation is possible and there are electronics powerful enough that can send signal through this cloud.
I suggest reading articles on “stealth by plasma cloud” !

Why Russia's Hypersonic Missiles Can't Be Seen on Radar

The speed of hypersonic weapons are changing the way the world's military minds think about the future of great power conflicts in ways no one could have predicted.

www.military.com

This article just transmits Russian claims. Kinzhal is basically an Iskander ballistic missile attached to MiG-31. Its a big doubt if it can moving targets.

About Zircon we dont even know if it exists at all. Here the only official "test" they showed:

Missile launched, u can see clear shadows. Means bright sunny day:

Missile second later - heavy clouds:

Even this little thing they cheated.

 

[GoatsMilk]

We see how world class Russian air defences systems have performed, especially their best in its class pantsir systems.

 

[Yasar_TR]

This article just transmits Russian claims. Kinzhal is basically an Iskander ballistic missile attached to MiG-31. Its a big doubt if it can moving targets.

About Zircon we dont even know if it exists at all. Here the only official "test" they showed:

Missile launched, u can see clear shadows. Means bright sunny day:

View attachment 13557

Missile second later - heavy clouds:

View attachment 13558

Even this little thing they cheated.

Yes. Kinzhal is derived from Iskender missile. (This missile has many derivatives with many different sizes and weights) It is supposed to travel at 9-10 Mach. But clocked at 6-7 Mach.(which is the speed of Iskender and hypersonic). It is NOT capable of hitting moving targets. It is a tactical SRBM. It is said that the Iskender’s export version with under 300km range, given to Armenia, during the last conflict hit their own positions. So it just shows how inaccurate it is under EW conditions.
I am not discussing or questioning the effectiveness of Russian arsenal. My point is that this is a very ingenious and revolutionary piece of technology. Even if it is not up to scratch. The idea and original tech is sound though. It does work to a certain degree. It must do as US is worried about it.
In that video there seems to be at least two different videos spliced together. It is a poor attempt to hide the particulars of a missile launch. They did the same for a long time for S400 system.
This creates more questions about the existence of the zircon than prove a successful launch! Here is more about that launch and the whole project.

Russia Says This Is Our First Glimpse Of Its Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Launched from a frigate in the White Sea, the weapon was claimed to have exceeded a speed of Mach 8 before hitting a naval target.

www.thedrive.com

 

[500]

Yes. Kinzhal is derived from Iskender missile. (This missile has many derivatives with many different sizes and weights) It is supposed to travel at 9-10 Mach. But clocked at 6-7 Mach.(which is the speed of Iskender and hypersonic). It is NOT capable of hitting moving targets. It is a tactical SRBM. It is said that the Iskender’s export version with under 300km range, given to Armenia, during the last conflict hit their own positions. So it just shows how inaccurate it is under EW conditions.
I am not discussing or questioning the effectiveness of Russian arsenal. My point is that this is a very ingenious and revolutionary piece of technology. Even if it is not up to scratch. The idea and original tech is sound though. It does work to a certain degree. It must do as US is worried about it.
In that video there seems to be at least two different videos spliced together. It is a poor attempt to hide the particulars of a missile launch. They did the same for a long time for S400 system.
This creates more questions about the existence of the zircon than prove a successful launch! Here is more about that launch and the whole project.

Russia Says This Is Our First Glimpse Of Its Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Launched from a frigate in the White Sea, the weapon was claimed to have exceeded a speed of Mach 8 before hitting a naval target.

www.thedrive.com

I am very skeptical about the need of hypersonic missiles at all.

* If we want fast delivery of warhead we can use old good ballistic missile.
* If we want covert and cheaper delivery we can use terrain hugging stealthy cruise missile.
* If we want very cheap delivery we can use glide bomb.

As Syria showed that even newest multiplayer Russian air defenses cant do anything with these. If we want to increase chances even more we can use EW and cheap false targets.

Hypersonic cruise missiles are extremely expensive, bulky and unclear how can they guide while surrounded by plasma at all. Good just for PR stunt.