TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Afif]

I wonder if efforts will expand to ICBM interception? I mean, you know, even more altitude!

Technically after SIPER block 3 I don't see any reason why it couldn't be done.
ASAT+plus ICBM interceptor into one. But TSK has to analyze the strategic imperative first, then proceed.

 

[UkroTurk]

Previous post deleted

Mathematically You couldn't dualpack two missiles larger than 395mm in 22'x22' VLS cell.

MK-41 and Slyver VLS cells dimensions:22'x22'
View attachment 60551

Diagonal:790mm
View attachment 60553
Experience showed us two missiles larger than 343mm couldn't be dualpacked in MK-41 .


Anyway i don't think Siper B2 larger than 300mm.

D: 400-450mm is İmpossible

Siper B2 diameter appears 420mm so it is impossible dualpacking in 22' VLS container.

I doubt if Siper B1 could be dualpacked

 

[uçuyorum]

Don't some of the anti ballistic missiles have a pif paf seeker at the tip that separates from missile at final stage? SM-2/3/6 all use some common components like that if I remember correctly

Actually it might be arrow 3 i am mistaking

 

[dBSPL]

It is a good exchange of ideas for frigates that may have a very limited number of cells, I follow it with interest.

On the other hand, even if we consider that only the Hisar-D B2 will be quadpack capable as the system to be replacing ESSM and everything else will be loaded as a single missile per cell, it creates an arsenal that I have a hard time visualizing when it comes to the TF-2000. 16x4, 64 Hisar missiles. Let's say you allocate 16 cells for surface-to-surface missiles; that still leaves 64 more cells for air warfare

 

[YeşilVatan]

It is a good exchange of ideas for frigates that may have a very limited number of cells, I follow it with interest.

On the other hand, even if we consider that only the Hisar-D B2 will be quadpack capable as the system to be replaced with ESSM and everything else will be loaded as a single missile per cell, it creates an arsenal that I have a hard time visualizing when it comes to the TF-2000. 16x4, 64 Hisar missiles. Let's say you allocate 16 cells for surface-to-surface missiles; that still leaves 64 more cells for air warfare

How is it looking at the budget side of things? Can you inform us about the cost? I believe the main money sink on the ship is actually the armaments and munitions. Do we look good on that front?

 

[uçuyorum]

It is a good exchange of ideas for frigates that may have a very limited number of cells, I follow it with interest.

On the other hand, even if we consider that only the Hisar-D B2 will be quadpack capable as the system to be replacing ESSM and everything else will be loaded as a single missile per cell, it creates an arsenal that I have a hard time visualizing when it comes to the TF-2000. 16x4, 64 Hisar missiles. Let's say you allocate 16 cells for surface-to-surface missiles; that still leaves 64 more cells for air warfare

I think thats how it was mentioned, 32x strike length vls for 16x gezgin/ atmaca and 16x quadpack hisar ( strike length seems to be necessary for quadpack, with possible all 7 of remaining istif having strike length midlas as we seen from F516 model) and 64 for larger siper missiles

 

[Heartbang]

Don't some of the anti ballistic missiles have a pif paf seeker at the tip that separates from missile at final stage?

Ballistic missile intercepts require extreme maneuverability in general.

For intercepts in the terminal phase, aka when the missile is in the final stretch, interceptor missiles with vectored thrust coupled with lateral thrusters are used. They pull up to 50 G's and smack the target head-on, and detonate a small warhead for good measure.
That is your PAC-3 MSE's and Aster's. They are good for smaller ballistic missiles up to the speed of Mach 5.

For intercepts with speeds higher than that, the most effective way of stopping those are in their midcourse phase, aka while they're at their highest attitude and most slowest. Those tend to happen outside atmosphere. And that's what EKV's(exoatmospheric kill vehicles) are for.
They are carried to duty with your SM-3's and THAAD's and Arrow's and GBI's and destroy the warhead with sheer kinetic hatred.
Their speed is determined by the missile that carries them.
(est. Mach 8-9 for Arrow&THAAD, Mach 13 for SM-3, Mach 18-20 for GBI)

Arrow-3 EKV

SM-3 EKV

THAAD EKV

They all have a place in the threat counter spectrum, depending on the intercepted missile and its intercept phase.

SM-2/3/6 all use some common components like that if I remember correctly

They do, but just for parts that relate to their rocketry. All Standard missiles have different payloads and seeker tech.

 

[Yasar_TR]

This dual-pack patent was never clearly meant for SM-2 dimensions afaik. Just a dual-pack canister concept afaik.

US5327809A - Dual pack canister - Google Patents

The invention provides a canister which holds two missiles, which is the same size as prior art canisters that held a single missile. The inventive canister provides improved structural strength, simpler operation for the closure and electronics and an improved shock isolation system. The...

patents.google.com

Whether it was ever implemented or not; There was a patent taken for the dual packed missile for the MK41 VLS. And It coincides well with the SM2 measurements.
We are not discussing if it ever was utilised in this format. The point is the very fact that with a patent the viability of dual packability of SM2 was verified.
Albeit, the missile is not specified in the patent. But at the time the patent was taken they were working on the SM2MR missile, less the fins.

 

[Ştutgart]

ASELSAN DESIGNS NEW RADAR FOR GÖKSUR

 

[Afif]

 

[Quasar]

Eventhough it is not the first time we saw KUZGUN KY launch carried out from MARLIN it already happened last year yet the launcher we see now is providing a saturation capability to KUZGUN KY with 40 km + range. & 10 kg warhead ... and MARLİN (SATCOM and it can operate at sea level 5) can not see an easy or cheap counter measure against MARLİN & KUZGUN KY combo

 

[boredaf]

Kuzgun would also make a great option for light armoured vehicles as well. That whole ensemble probably weighs less than a ton, imagine putting behind a fast vehicle to hit and run.

Edit: Also, UGVs it would be really amazing to see it on them.

 

[Afif]

Eventhough it is not the first time we saw KUZGUN KY launch carried out from MARLIN it already happened last year yet the launcher we see now is providing a saturation capability to KUZGUN KY with 40 km + range. & 10 kg warhead ... and MARLİN (SATCOM and it can operate at sea level 5) can not see an easy or cheap counter measure against MARLİN & KUZGUN KY combo

The way I see it, these systems' effectiveness are conditional. They have excellent utility in shore locked Aegean, Mediterranean and black seas combined with other naval and air assets for Türkiye's strategic context. But then if a country like Bangladesh bought these, it doesn't have much relevance in open and vast Indian Ocean. We need frigates, ocean provide less room for cheaping out on navy with assymetric USVs like the way it is with UAVs in the land domain. Some countries with smaller seas could maximize on such capability procurement from Türkiye. So, it has a good market future I reckon.

 

[cr33pt3d]

The way I see it, these systems' effectiveness are conditional. They have excellent utility in shore locked Aegean, Mediterranean and black seas combined with other naval and air assets for Türkiye's strategic context. But then if a country like Bangladesh bought these, it doesn't have much relevance in open and vast Indian Ocean. We need frigates, ocean provide less room for cheaping out on navy with assymetric USVs like the way it is with UAVs in the land domain. Where drones are far more effective.

unless you have Akinci drones and a bunch of kuzgun Tj, that would make a huge boost in capacity

 

[Ştutgart]

Raven Missile Fired from Marlin Unmanned Naval Vehicle

 

[Kaan Azman]

I wonder what range would KUZGUN-KY reach if it was to be launched off AKINCI. I say 55-60+ km with estimations from UAV-122.

But note that KUZGUN-KY has different flight profiles which change the range. 40 or 50 km range is likely with a ballistic path and the less talked about 20 km is with a hard manuevering one.

 

[boredaf]

I wonder what range would KUZGUN-KY reach if it was to be launched off AKINCI. I say 55-60+ km with estimations from UAV-122.

But note that KUZGUN-KY has different flight profiles which change the range. 40 or 50 km range is likely with a ballistic path and the less talked about 20 km is with a hard manuevering one.

I think 40 km is already the range when it is fired from an UAV iirc.

 

[Afif]

GÜRCAN OKUMUŞ: ASSAN will be the center of mass production in defense​

ASSAN Group Defense General Manager Gürcan Okumuş answered our questions about the company's mass production infrastructure and future goals.

Gürcan Okumuş, who stated that ASSAN Group Defense continues its work with the aim of becoming a mass production center in the field of defense industry, gave information about the ongoing and future productions, especially 122mm Rockets, General Purpose Bombs, 155mm Howitzer Ammunition and 60/81/120mm Mortar Ammunition.

In the statement made by Okumuş to SavunmaSanayiST.com Editor-in-Chief Anıl Şahin, the following statements were made:

“ASSAN GROUP has transferred its 40-year machinery production capability to the defense industry sector. Now, the defense industry has become a much more important sector for ASSAN GROUP. We produce MK Series General Purpose Bombs, 122mm Rockets, 155mm Howitzer Ammunition and 60/81/120mm Mortar Ammunition.

We have various subcontractor agreements with Roketsan, ASELSAN and MKE Inc. We have a team of approximately 700 people and our main locations are Sincan and Gerede.

Production of 80 thousand MK Series General Purpose Bombs per year!​

We can produce approximately 50 thousand mechanical bodies per year for MK Series General Purpose Bombs. We export a large portion of these to EDGE, a company based in the United Arab Emirates (UAE). Since 2021, we have signed contracts with the UAE to export various amounts of MK Series Bombs and have delivered a large portion of them. We plan to sign a contract with EDGE soon for the supply and joint production of new bombs. Our annual MK Series Bomb production capacity will soon be 80 thousand.

Up until now, we have exported these bombs as mechanical bodies to more than 20 countries, including Bulgaria, Brazil and Romania. We have exported bombs in full ammunition configuration to Azerbaijan by receiving the filling service from outside.

MK Series Bomb Production Line for Nakhchivan​

We are currently working with a local partner to establish a MK Series Bomb Production Line in Azerbaijan, it has been approved by the government and the permitting process is ongoing. We plan to put the line into operation in 2025. It will be in Nakhchivan and will have the capacity to produce 10 thousand full-shot ammunition per year. We also have capabilities in industrial facility installation. In our ongoing investments in Gerede, we have produced many things such as mixers and reactors with our own engineering capabilities. Our negotiations with different countries for the establishment of a MK Series Bomb Production Line are ongoing.

We have become one of the main subcontractors of ASELSAN's TOLUN Ammunition. We provide an end-to-end service such as mechanical body production, energetic material filling, integration of ammunition with electronics from ASELSAN, and then crated and delivered to ASELSAN's desired location with our ADB trucks.

360 thousand 155mm Howitzer Ammunition to be Produced Annually​

We have plans to fill aircraft bombs and TNT for 155 in our facilities in Gerede. Our facility construction activities for explosive production and filling are ongoing there. We plan to start producing 155mm Howitzer Ammunition as of mid-2025 and reach full capacity by the end of the year.

Our capacity will be to produce 360 thousand 155mm Howitzer Ammunition per year. Some of this will be in different configurations such as 20 kilometers and some 40 kilometers range. Of course, we will not be able to provide all 360 thousand units as loaded, our first goal is to fill 200 thousand units. We plan to sell the remaining part as ready-to-load bodies to various customers.

We plan to produce the fuses for both 122mm and 155mm ammunition ourselves, both through our own R&D activities and through technology transfer. We want to do many things ourselves, as much as possible, within vertical integration.

We have a future investment plan for gunpowder in Kırıkkale. Initially, we may have a single-based investment roadmap, and later we have a roadmap for modular gunpowder

---

This should address the concern of many members on production capacity of Turkish Ammunition manufacturers. @TR_123456 @Yasar_TR @Sanchez @dBSPL @Kartal1 @what @Saithan @Rooxbar et al.

GÜRCAN OKUMUŞ: ASSAN savunmada seri üretimin merkezi olacak

ASSAN Group Savunma Genel Müdürü Gürcan Okumuş, şirketin seri üretim altyapıları ve ileriye dönük hedeflerine ilişkin sorularımızı yanıtladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

 

[uçuyorum]

Glad he didn't leave defence. It might even be better that he is now in private sector and has more freedom. Tubitak may have been the wrong type of institution to leverage his skills despite delivering great products. Who knows maybe in time assan can grow to rival the munition segment of other large defence firms with revenue gained from these strategic mass production investments.

 

[dBSPL]

GÜRCAN OKUMUŞ: ASSAN will be the center of mass production in defense​

View attachment 70953

ASSAN Group Defense General Manager Gürcan Okumuş answered our questions about the company's mass production infrastructure and future goals.

Gürcan Okumuş, who stated that ASSAN Group Defense continues its work with the aim of becoming a mass production center in the field of defense industry, gave information about the ongoing and future productions, especially 122mm Rockets, General Purpose Bombs, 155mm Howitzer Ammunition and 60/81/120mm Mortar Ammunition.

In the statement made by Okumuş to SavunmaSanayiST.com Editor-in-Chief Anıl Şahin, the following statements were made:

“ASSAN GROUP has transferred its 40-year machinery production capability to the defense industry sector. Now, the defense industry has become a much more important sector for ASSAN GROUP. We produce MK Series General Purpose Bombs, 122mm Rockets, 155mm Howitzer Ammunition and 60/81/120mm Mortar Ammunition.

We have various subcontractor agreements with Roketsan, ASELSAN and MKE Inc. We have a team of approximately 700 people and our main locations are Sincan and Gerede.

View attachment 70954

Production of 80 thousand MK Series General Purpose Bombs per year!​

We can produce approximately 50 thousand mechanical bodies per year for MK Series General Purpose Bombs. We export a large portion of these to EDGE, a company based in the United Arab Emirates (UAE). Since 2021, we have signed contracts with the UAE to export various amounts of MK Series Bombs and have delivered a large portion of them. We plan to sign a contract with EDGE soon for the supply and joint production of new bombs. Our annual MK Series Bomb production capacity will soon be 80 thousand.

Up until now, we have exported these bombs as mechanical bodies to more than 20 countries, including Bulgaria, Brazil and Romania. We have exported bombs in full ammunition configuration to Azerbaijan by receiving the filling service from outside.

MK Series Bomb Production Line for Nakhchivan​

We are currently working with a local partner to establish a MK Series Bomb Production Line in Azerbaijan, it has been approved by the government and the permitting process is ongoing. We plan to put the line into operation in 2025. It will be in Nakhchivan and will have the capacity to produce 10 thousand full-shot ammunition per year. We also have capabilities in industrial facility installation. In our ongoing investments in Gerede, we have produced many things such as mixers and reactors with our own engineering capabilities. Our negotiations with different countries for the establishment of a MK Series Bomb Production Line are ongoing.

View attachment 70955

We have become one of the main subcontractors of ASELSAN's TOLUN Ammunition. We provide an end-to-end service such as mechanical body production, energetic material filling, integration of ammunition with electronics from ASELSAN, and then crated and delivered to ASELSAN's desired location with our ADB trucks.

360 thousand 155mm Howitzer Ammunition to be Produced Annually​

We have plans to fill aircraft bombs and TNT for 155 in our facilities in Gerede. Our facility construction activities for explosive production and filling are ongoing there. We plan to start producing 155mm Howitzer Ammunition as of mid-2025 and reach full capacity by the end of the year.

Our capacity will be to produce 360 thousand 155mm Howitzer Ammunition per year. Some of this will be in different configurations such as 20 kilometers and some 40 kilometers range. Of course, we will not be able to provide all 360 thousand units as loaded, our first goal is to fill 200 thousand units. We plan to sell the remaining part as ready-to-load bodies to various customers.

View attachment 70956

We plan to produce the fuses for both 122mm and 155mm ammunition ourselves, both through our own R&D activities and through technology transfer. We want to do many things ourselves, as much as possible, within vertical integration.

We have a future investment plan for gunpowder in Kırıkkale. Initially, we may have a single-based investment roadmap, and later we have a roadmap for modular gunpowder

---

This should address the concern of many members on production capacity of Turkish Ammunition manufacturers. @TR_123456 @Yasar_TR @Sanchez @dBSPL @Kartal1 @what @Saithan @Rooxbar et al.

GÜRCAN OKUMUŞ: ASSAN savunmada seri üretimin merkezi olacak

ASSAN Group Savunma Genel Müdürü Gürcan Okumuş, şirketin seri üretim altyapıları ve ileriye dönük hedeflerine ilişkin sorularımızı yanıtladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Welcome to the invisible side of the Iceberg. -SANs' contractors! Under this 'subcontractors' group, there are hundreds of large and small engineering companies and a significant number of heavy industry facilities. The industrial infrastructure in the country is already known to almost everyone who is an industrial enthusiastism. If you pay attention, the areas of discussion revolve around planning, bureaucracy, business models and system engineering(of some projects) rather than capacity.