TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Anmdt]

source?

Years old BS

 

[dBSPL]

Ramjet-propelled Gökhan BVRAAM revealed for the first time.

 

[Sanchez]

Ramjet-propelled Gökhan BVRAAM revealed for the first time.

SAGE is back from its long sleep.

GÖKHAN — TÜBİTAK SAGE

“Millî Ramjet Motorlu Hava-Hava Füzesi (GÖKHAN) Geliştirilmesi Projesi” Sözleşmesi 21 Mayıs 2021 tarihinde MSB ile TÜBİTAK SAGE arasında imzalanarak

www.sage.tubitak.gov.tr

"The "National Ramjet Powered Air-Air Missile (GÖKHAN) Development Project" contract was signed between the Ministry of National Defense and TÜBİTAK SAGE on May 21, 2021, and activities were initiated.

With this project, it is aimed to develop a nationally developed beyond-line-of-sight ramjet-powered air-to-air missile system that will enable the neutralization of various air elements with a long-range engagement in order to establish air superiority, protect high-value aircraft, and enable attack aircraft to contribute to survivability by conducting their own defense.

The Conceptual Design Phase and Preliminary Design Phase of the project have been completed, and the Ground Trials Phase activities are being carried out. In the Ground Tests and Flight Tests Phases of the project, subsystem and system verification tests will be carried out, and flight and firing tests will be carried out.

With the ramjet-powered air-to-air missile to be developed in the GÖKHAN project, a strategic air-to-air missile system will be introduced to our country, and Turkey will be among the NATO member countries capable of producing ramjet-powered air-to-air missiles."

It is of course possible that this might just be a placeholder design, but Gökdoğan also looks a lot like an AIM-120. External looks don't mean much in itself.

 

[dBSPL]

SAGE is back from its long sleep.

GÖKHAN — TÜBİTAK SAGE

“Millî Ramjet Motorlu Hava-Hava Füzesi (GÖKHAN) Geliştirilmesi Projesi” Sözleşmesi 21 Mayıs 2021 tarihinde MSB ile TÜBİTAK SAGE arasında imzalanarak

www.sage.tubitak.gov.tr

"The "National Ramjet Powered Air-Air Missile (GÖKHAN) Development Project" contract was signed between the Ministry of National Defense and TÜBİTAK SAGE on May 21, 2021, and activities were initiated.

With this project, it is aimed to develop a nationally developed beyond-line-of-sight ramjet-powered air-to-air missile system that will enable the neutralization of various air elements with a long-range engagement in order to establish air superiority, protect high-value aircraft, and enable attack aircraft to contribute to survivability by conducting their own defense.

The Conceptual Design Phase and Preliminary Design Phase of the project have been completed, and the Ground Trials Phase activities are being carried out. In the Ground Tests and Flight Tests Phases of the project, subsystem and system verification tests will be carried out, and flight and firing tests will be carried out.

With the ramjet-powered air-to-air missile to be developed in the GÖKHAN project, a strategic air-to-air missile system will be introduced to our country, and Turkey will be among the NATO member countries capable of producing ramjet-powered air-to-air missiles."

It is of course possible that this might just be a placeholder design, but Gökdoğan also looks a lot like an AIM-120. External looks don't mean much in itself.

As far as I understand, the fact that ground tests have started in the project indicates that the prototyping of the engine has been completed to a significant extent.

We were able to take Sungur, Gökdoğan and Bozdoğan from design to mass production in more or less 10 years. Gökhan may possibly enter mass production before the 2030s, and there is also Akdoğan, which is not talked about much. Also there will probably be separate variants for some missiles. It is an incredible achievement to have completely indigenized the air-to-air missile range in less than 20 years. There are at most four or five countries in the world that can achieve this success. 10 years ago we couldn't convince people in any foreign forum that we could do it.

 

[TheInsider]

Gökhan qualification tests will be done in 2026. A LRIP contract similar to Gökdoğan and Bozdoğan will be signed before the end of 2026.

 

[Afif]

Ramjet-propelled Gökhan BVRAAM revealed for the first time.

Looks like Fins are already optimized for IWBs.

 

[Kaan Azman]

Estimated length around 5.1 m

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1874464279799517633

 

[Yasar_TR]

Meteor : 365cm length

Gokhan : ~510 cm length

Meteor carries it’s solid fuel inside the combustion chamber, stuck to the periphery of the combustion chamber walls.

By Tubitak director we have been told in the past that the Gökhan is liquid fuelled (gel form) . That means more space needed to keep fuel. Hence longer and probably slightly wider and heavier. (Presumably the booster solid fuel is kept inside the combustion chamber like Meteor.)

Having liquid fuel gives better fuel injection control in to combustion chamber, which results in easier regulation of speed. Although heavier to carry, liquid fuels generate higher propulsive thrust / higher specific impulse. It is possible to obtain up to 60% more specific impulse from liquid fuels. As a downside, you need a better engineered combustion chamber to withstand higher energy of liquid fuels.
So theoretically all the conditions and parameters of a superior A2A missile is there. Can’t wait for it to be used in a firing test.

I hope they are also working on an anti ship version of this with sea skimming capabilities.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Meteor : 365cm length
View attachment 72965

Gokhan : ~510 cm length
View attachment 72966 Meteor carries it’s solid fuel inside the combustion chamber, stuck to the periphery of the combustion chamber walls.

By Tubitak director we have been told in the past that the Gökhan is liquid fuelled (gel form) . That means more space needed to keep fuel. Hence longer and probably slightly wider and heavier. (Presumably the booster solid fuel is kept inside the combustion chamber like Meteor.)

Having liquid fuel gives better fuel injection control in to combustion chamber, which results in easier regulation of speed. Although heavier to carry, liquid fuels generate higher propulsive thrust / higher specific impulse. It is possible to obtain up to 60% more specific impulse from liquid fuels. As a downside, you need a better engineered combustion chamber to withstand higher energy of liquid fuels.
So theoretically all the conditions and parameters of a superior A2A missile is there. Can’t wait for it to be used in a firing test.

I hope they are also working on an anti ship version of this with sea skimming capabilities.

Will the length of Gökhan be a problem to integrate it into internal weapons bay of Kaan or Kizilelma ?

 

[Turkic]

Will the length of Gökhan be a problem to integrate it into internal weapons bay of Kaan or Kizilelma ?

Missile & Smart Munition Programs

Possibly idealab or another producer that once made a low-cost turbojet. I have been waiting for an engine since Havva Hanim moved to Baykar.🤣 https://www.linkedin.com/in/havva-kazdal-zeytin-8b1b6916?trk=feed_main-feed-card_feed-reaction-header

defencehub.live

Siper block 2 is 6.3 meters so if calculations of @Heartbang are correct, it won't be a problem for Kaan.

 

[Baryshx]

Ramjet-propelled Gökhan BVRAAM revealed for the first time.

It is annoying that there are only pictures. There is no information and no test. There was a delay of 1 years. Still, it is pleasing, it is one of the most important projects for our country.

 

[BaburKhan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1874521392168738825

 

[Turkic]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1874521392168738825

A better missile than meteor/gökhan ? So they're working on a missile with 300/400+ km range ? Maybe we were right about Siper A-A. Or maybe a new design based on siper b1/2.

Or gökhan-er as stated ofc

 

[Turkic]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1874521392168738825

Wait why are we developing a Gökdoğan-ER with Pakistan ? Why would we need it when there's Gökhan ? Will we keep it for us only and Gökdoğan-ER is for export ? Or is it about cost-efficiency ? Is it for aircrafts without an aesa radar ? Wouldn't it be a problem too when you have 180+ kms range ?

Anyone knows anything ?

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I also think that key technologies should not be handed over just like that.
Pakistan is one of Turkey's closest allies like Azerbaijan, Qatar and South Korea.
But Pakistan also works closely with China, the problem is not Pakistan but industrial espionage by China, the Chinese are very capable people no question their current technological leaps are extreme and immense e.g. in hardware only USA can keep up or surpass. But in the area of targeting, tracking, precision + sensor fusion in their aircraft, drones and intelligent munitions, excluding the software, they are just as badly developed as those in Russia. All intelligent ammunition types are based on Russian systems, which are not exactly known for being able to carry out precision strikes, see the Ukraine war.
Turkey has this precision thanks to NATO standards in hardware and software from ASELSAN, HAVELSAN and ROKETSAN, which work very closely together.
If China is so good, then the market would have been flooded with Chinese airplanes, drones and intelligent munitions in the Middle East, South East Asia, Africa and South America long ago, which is definitely not the case.
Because they lack precision in their software with their sensors, and you can only get that from combat data.
That's why American, Israeli, European GB/FR and Turkish Systems are so sophisticated that they are battle-tested.

 

[dBSPL]

Looks like Fins are already optimized for IWBs.

I think the widening of the scale from the NATO standard ~12ft length to 16-17ft in the BVR air-to-air missile is an anecdote that can indirectly give an idea about KAAN's IWB design.

We even know that a longer-range variant with similar engine to the Gökhan missile is in the design phase. Also, there will probably be a long-range Gökdoğan variant between Gökdoğan and Gökhan that compete JATM. Multiple numbers of all these BVR missiles will be carried in the KAAN internal weapons bay.


edit: Tr_tech's estimated scaling work of Turkish air-to-air missiles

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1874521392168738825

 

[hugh]

These accounts on twitter are cheap propaganda bots and should not be followed or be speculated on, imo:

TurkishFacts4U(this one is the worst) https://x.com/TurkishFacts4U
Tr_tech https://x.com/T_Nblty
TurkishCentury https://x.com/TurkishCentury

There are many more accounts to be avoided but not comes to mind right now. Feel free to extend the list

 

[Afif]

I also think that key technologies should not be handed over just like that.
Pakistan is one of Turkey's closest allies like Azerbaijan, Qatar and South Korea.
But Pakistan also works closely with China, the problem is not Pakistan but industrial espionage by China, the Chinese are very capable people no question their current technological leaps are extreme and immense e.g. in hardware only USA can keep up or surpass. But in the area of targeting, tracking, precision + sensor fusion in their aircraft, drones and intelligent munitions, excluding the software, they are just as badly developed as those in Russia. All intelligent ammunition types are based on Russian systems, which are not exactly known for being able to carry out precision strikes, see the Ukraine war.

This is not true. PLA has an entirely new family of domestically designed precision A2G weapons and A2A missiles that does not stem from Russian origin. But this is not the right thread for this discussion.

 

[Afif]

I think the widening of the scale from the NATO standard ~12ft length to 16-17ft in the BVR air-to-air missile is an anecdote that can indirectly give an idea about KAAN's IWB design.

We even know that a longer-range variant with similar engine to the Gökhan missile is in the design phase. Also, there will probably be a long-range Gökdoğan variant between Gökdoğan and Gökhan that compete JATM. Multiple numbers of all these BVR missiles will be carried in the KAAN internal weapons bay.


edit: Tr_tech's estimated scaling work of Turkish air-to-air missiles

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1874521392168738825

I heard about Gokdogan ER being talked about by previous Tubitak president. But i haven't read anything about longer range variant based on Gokhan's propulsion. Missed it.

JATM is so secretive, but if it features altitude control thrusters like rumored then it could go as far as Meteor or Gokhan by simply climbing up higher than 30000m in mid course phase.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

This is not true. PLA has an entirely new family of domestically designed precision A2G weapons and A2A missiles that does not stem from Russian origin. But this is not the right thread for this discussion.

But the technological roots are Russian or not? It's not about Pakistan and their reliability, they are reliable!
But it's not the Chinese who would engage in industrial espionage in Pakistan without Pakistan's knowledge.
The J-17 is a cooperation between Pakistan and China, the probability is very high that Pakistan will also buy J-35 because TAI KAAN is not exportable until 2035 at the latest, and if Pakistan would even consider buying TAI KAAN, it is not even certain. Therefore, the defense industry and its cooperation with China will definitely continue.
I would be worried that BVRAAMs with No Escape Zone will end up in the wrong hands, that's why METEOR missiles have strict export requirements Ramjet missiles have a very high kill rate.
There's no dodging and flaring. If the enemy radar has you and METEOR has the data.
Then it's practically a death sentence for the aircraft, provided the aircraft's EW is not capable and can't interfere with the enemy radar and its target acquisition.