Morrison-Joko meeting called off before Australian submarines announcement

xizhimen

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Morrison-Joko meeting called off before Australian submarines announcement​

By Anthony Galloway and Chris Barrett

September 17, 2021 — 5.22pm

Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s plan to stop off in Jakarta on the way back from Washington next week was cancelled after President Joko Widodo opted to instead visit provinces outside the capital, while Indonesia reacts with alarm to Australia’s plan to arm itself with nuclear-propelled submarines.

Mr Morrison originally planned to visit Indonesia’s President on the way back from Washington after having his first one-on-one meeting with United States President Joe Biden. But when Australian officials went to confirm the timing of a Jakarta visit, days before the announcement Australia would acquire nuclear-powered submarines, the Indonesian government said Mr Joko was unavailable as he would not be in the capital.

Indonesia’s foreign ministry said on Friday that it had taken note of Australia’s decision to use American technology to acquire eight nuclear-powered submarines and stressed “Indonesia is deeply concerned over the continuing arms race and power projection in the region”.

The Australian government does not believe the failure of the two leaders to meet in person has anything to do with the country’s unease over the submarine plan because the decision not to go to Jakarta was made before the announcement. Diplomatic relations between Canberra and Jakarta have been labelled their best in decades and it was only last week that Defence Minister Peter Dutton and Foreign Minister Marise Payne made the Indonesian capital their first stop on an overseas trip which has taken in India, South Korea and the US.

But Indonesia has maintained healthy ties with China, and Beijing this year sent millions of Chinese-made COVID-19 vaccines to the country.

Mr Morrison spoke with Mr Joko this week by phone about the submarine development. He has also called Singaporean Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, outgoing Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga and India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi in recent days. While Indonesia has expressed alarm about the proposal, Singapore – which already hosts American nuclear-powered submarines – is said to be comfortable with the move.

Former Labor prime minister Kevin Rudd, whose government first adopted the policy of acquiring a new fleet of submarines in 2009, has voiced scepticism over the move, saying the submarine replacement program had “ground to a halt” over the past eight years.

“The result: not a single keel laid, up to $4 billion wasted, and the deep alienation of our Japanese and French strategic partners,” Mr Rudd said in an opinion piece for The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
“It has been an essay in financial waste, national security incompetence and egregious foreign policy mismanagement.”

Australia, the US and Britain on Thursday announced a historic new partnership, known as AUKUS, which will allow Canberra to access American technology to build a fleet of at least eight nuclear-powered submarines and pursue long-range hypersonic missile technology and undersea drones.

The three-way security pact comes in the face of China’s escalating militarisation of the South China Sea and has angered Beijing, which said the agreement “seriously undermines regional peace and stability and intensified the arms race”.

Mr Morrison will be in Washington between Monday and Saturday next week for the first leaders’ summit of the Quad grouping of countries, which comprises Australia, the US, Japan and India.

The trip will follow Mr Dutton and Senator Payne’s visit to Washington this week for the annual Australia-US Ministerial consultations, where they agreed with their US counterparts to explore an increase in the number of US troops rotating through northern Australia and more bilateral military exercises. They also floated the possibility of a naval base in Australia which could host a combined submarine and surface fleet.

 

Gary

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we're naturally aware of our past bickering with Australia, but actually this is good news.

a strong Australia as well as Japan and USA in the Indo-Pacific is in Indonesia's interests.

at least until we've finished building our own capable armed forces.
 

xizhimen

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Indonesia chides Australia as Indo-Pacific tensions rise

Sat, September 18, 2021
ndonesia on Friday reminded Australia of its regional obligation to maintain peace and stability after it set the pace of an Indo-Pacific arms race that is sure to heat up. Canberra caught many countries in the region unawares this week after unveiling plans to acquire nuclear-powered submarines, as part of a new United States-led security pact that China has labeled as “extremely irresponsible”.

In a statement published on its website on Friday, the Foreign Ministry said Indonesia had cautiously taken note of Australia’s decision to acquire the submarines and stressed the importance of the country’s commitment to continue meeting its nuclear nonproliferation obligations. “Indonesia is deeply concerned over the continuing arms race and power projection in the region,” the ministry said.

 

xizhimen

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we're naturally aware of our past bickering with Australia, but actually this is good news.

a strong Australia as well as Japan and USA in the Indo-Pacific is in Indonesia's interests.

at least until we've finished building our own capable armed forces.
This is your personal opinion or it represents your government stance?

 

Gary

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This is your personal opinion or it represents your government stance?
our government stance is this


our parliament speaker Mrs. Puan on China very recently, she said we must be firm against China.


Australia being strong could help us in the SCS in the long run.
 

xizhimen

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our government stance is this


our parliament speaker Mrs. Puan on China very recently, she said we must be firm against China.


Australia being strong could help us in the SCS in the long run.
But now it seems like your government is blaming Australia for sparking a potential arm race, your government changed its stance?
 

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But now it seems like your government is blaming Australia for sparking a potential arm race, your government changed its stance?
it's very usual to be oppose each other govt stance on a particular decision.

for example Merkel intially oppose US brinkmanship with China, but it doesn't stop the German govt to send warships into the South China Sea either for example.

if you're betting that Indonesia's ties with Australia will be degraded because of this you'll be very sorry.

 

xizhimen

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it's very usual to be oppose each other govt stance on a particular decision.

for example Merkel intially oppose US brinkmanship with China, but it doesn't stop the German govt to send warships into the South China Sea either for example.

if you're betting that Indonesia's ties with Australia will be degraded because of this you'll be very sorry.

We don't bet on anything, we are going to have a naval building arm race with Aussie anyway and outbuild them by a huge margin, China grows more than one more Australia each passing year in GDP, Aussies are embarking an arm race that they have zero chance to win.
 

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we're naturally aware of our past bickering with Australia, but actually this is good news.

a strong Australia as well as Japan and USA in the Indo-Pacific is in Indonesia's interests.

at least until we've finished building our own capable armed forces.

For Indonesia they are playing a game of balancing both sides. Which is not bad honestly.

Indonesia has always been neutral and non aligned but it will defend its interests and build up a deterent to counter the Chinese or any other player who threatens them.
 

xizhimen

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For Indonesia they are playing a game of balancing both sides. Which is not bad honestly.

Indonesia has always been neutral and non aligned but it will defend its interests and build up a deterent to counter the Chinese or any other player who threatens them.
China won't attack Indonesia, we never did, as for the western powers, check the history
 

Gary

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We don't bet on anything, we are going to have a naval building arm race with Aussie anyway and outbuild them by a huge margin, China grows more than one more Australia each passing year in GDP, Aussies are embarking an arm race that they have zero chance to win.

thankfully Aussies are not alone in this. I wonder why this graph doesn't include the JMSDF another allied navy.....

E_dnIFwUUAE7ous
 

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For Indonesia they are playing a game of balancing both sides. Which is not bad honestly.

Indonesia has always been neutral and non aligned but it will defend its interests and build up a deterent to counter the Chinese or any other player who threatens them.
I personally don't think Indonesia will ever join any alliance in the Indo-Pacific. But what is apparent is Indonesia off course naturally favor countries who's not in a territorial dispute with us.

China is in a territorial dispute with us.

 

xizhimen

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thankfully Aussies are not alone in this. I wonder why this graph doesn't include the JMSDF another allied navy.....

E_dnIFwUUAE7ous
How much of them can be used to pit against China? and if the war doesn't happen today, what the power shift will be like in the future when the war really happens?
 

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China won't attack Indonesia, we never did, as for the western powers, check the history

How did China become a big country??

It expanded into new lands including Taiwan.

Im not gonna accuse China of being the only country with imperialism when a lot of countries engaged in it including my country Australia.
 

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I personally don't think Indonesia will ever join any alliance in the Indo-Pacific. But what is apparent is Indonesia off course naturally favor countries who's not in a territorial dispute with us.

China is in a territorial dispute with us.


Makes sense for Indonesia really like how they balance their foreign policy.

No doubt Indonesia will have to defend its territory especially its waters from Chinese violations.

Being neutral does not mean being a pushover. Indo-Pacific powerplay is really interesting.
 

xizhimen

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Im not gonna accuse China of being the only country with imperialism when a lot of countries engaged in it including my country Australia.
Do you think it's smart for Australia to engage a naval arm race with China? how much you can trust Americans and how long they can still be there for you?
 

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Do you know why Taiwan became an issue? and what is the root cause of it?

Taiwan before Chinese takeover was home to Taiwanese natives. After Chinese settlement, European colonial powers fought for Taiwan which led the partition of the Island between the Dutch and the Spanish in the end the Dutch drove out the Spanish then the Chinese drove the Dutch out.
 

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Do you think it's smart for Australia to engage a naval arm race with China? how much you can trust Americans and how long they can still be there for you?

Australia, UK and the USA are really binded with each other you can say they are from the same family.

Im not Anglo-Saxon by any means im born in Australia to Turkish parents.

But dont underestimate the Anglo-sphere. Australia's future is not just about alliances but also building up a deterrent to defend the country and its interests a lot of Australians who study geopolitics also believe we cant rely on the USA forever to defend us.

If you want to defend yourself you have to so it alone. No doubt alliances do help. If you want to survive in this world, Alliances are important.
 

xizhimen

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Taiwan before Chinese takeover was home to Taiwanese natives. After Chinese settlement, European colonial powers fought for Taiwan which led the partition of the Island between the Dutch and the Spanish in the end the Dutch drove out the Spanish then the Chinese drove the Dutch out.
If you like to go back in the hisotry that far, we were all Africans as well.
 

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