TR Naval Programs

[Saithan]

UK protects QEII with 1 AAW Destroyer, 1 ASW Frigate and Submarine.

If you are referring to a strike group for force projection, across the blue waters then surely you will need more. But what kind of power you can project with Anadolu if it is not equipped with F35s like US's LHAs do?.

I class with Siper Block-1 missile will be sufficient to protect TCG Anadolu in its current configuration.

It may be my ignorance, but why a Frigate ? Wouldn’t Ada class corvettes not be able to fulfill that role. As I remember Ada class can come with ASW configuration. And wouldn’t PN Ada class with VLS be the other candidate for the AAW ?

I’m aware that it’s the sensors as much as the Armament that are important in their function. But would a Frigate be prefered because of tonnage+space ?

 

[Anmdt]

It may be my ignorance, but why a Frigate ? Wouldn’t Ada class corvettes not be able to fulfill that role. As I remember Ada class can come with ASW configuration. And wouldn’t PN Ada class with VLS be the other candidate for the AAW ?

I’m aware that it’s the sensors as much as the Armament that are important in their function. But would a Frigate be prefered because of tonnage+space ?

Ada class still doesn't have sufficient AD and ASW capabilities. If it receives some VLS and point defence + AD missiles, and equipped with a towed / variable depth sonar then why not.

The endurance and range of a frigate is more as well. If we are talking about an operation in near areas then why not, but beyond those near seas we will need the frigates / destroyers.

The flotilla will be accompanied by Flotilla replenishment vessel, but still doing RAS once, or twice is different. Each RAS is vulnerability for the flotilla.

 

[Bogeyman]

Turkey’s New Submarine CMS ‘MÜREN’ To Enter Service In 2022​

The Minister paid a visit to TCG Preveze (S-353), which is now being modernized at Golcuk Shipyard, and executed a simulated torpedo engagement with the new system.




The Ministry of Industry and Technology indicated that the project is on schedule and that the MÜREN CMS has already been installed aboard several Type 209/1400 TN (Preveze) class submarines after completing the factory acceptance tests. However, the Ministry did not specify how many submarines have been upgraded with the MÜREN CMS so far.

“MÜREN is a fully integrated combat management system that includes 20 various sensors, navigational systems, and weapon systems. All tasks, particularly sonar signal processing, command and control, fire control, and ship navigation, will be capable of being implemented by national means,”

Submarines outfitted with MÜREN CMS are planned to enter service with the Turkish Naval Forces Command in 2022, following the completion of sea acceptance tests.

The MÜREN CMS modernization is taking place in tandem with the Preveze-class submarines’ mid-life upgrade.

About MÜREN Project:​

The MÜREN (Milli Üretim Entegre Sualti Savaş Yönetim Sistemi – means Indigenously Produced Integrated Underwater CMS) project has been carried out by TUBITAK BILGEM (The Scientific and Technological Research Council of Turkey affiliated with the Industry and Technology Ministry) in collaboration with the Turkish Navy’s Research and Development Command (ARMERKOM), and Golcuk Naval Shipyard.


The project consists of two main programs, MÜREN-AY and MÜREN-PREVEZE.


Beginning in 2015, the MÜREN-AY program involved the delivery of one ground station system and two submarine systems. TCG Doganay (S-351) and TCG Dolunay (S-352), two of four AY-class (Type 209/1200) submarines, were outfitted with the capacity to launch modern heavyweight torpedoes, conduct target motion analyses (TMA) utilizing sonar, periscope, and ESM data, and manage tracks using an indigenous weapon control unit. The modernized AY-class submarines are currently active in service.


MÜREN-PREVEZE, a program aimed at indigenously modernizing the combat management systems of Preveze-class submarines, was initiated in 2017 with the collaboration of the same establishments as MÜREN-AY. Meteksan Savunma joined the project as a subcontractor in July 2018, and it is in charge of developing pre-electronic equipment that amplifies and transforms analog signals from sensors to digital, as well as signal processing and beam shaping hardware and software for these digital signals.



The MÜREN-PREVEZE contract includes the delivery of one ground station system and four submarine systems.


Because of confidentiality issues, officials did not provide technical information about the system.


The ISUS-83/2 CMS onboard Preveze-class submarines is being replaced with MÜREN CMS as part of the project. When finished, the Preveze-class submarines will be able to launch DM2A4 SeaHake and indigenous AKYA heavyweight torpedoes in place of Mark 24 Tigerfish.

Because the system is based on the ADVENT CMS developed by HAVELSAN and ARMERKOM, Preveze-class submarines will be compatible with network-centric infrastructure following the upgrade. The MUREN-PREVEZE CMS incorporates the ADVENT-based Link 11, Link 22, JREAP (Joint Range Extension Applications Protocol), Multiple Tactical Data Link Systems, and WAIS (Warship Automatic Identification System) subsystems.


The new system will be able to process more tracks than the current one, and the subsystems will be modernized.


Due to the improvement of electronic hardware and software using local resources, PREVEZE Class submarines will be free of foreign reliance on sonar, underwater acoustic systems, and Integrated Underwater Combat Management Systems.


MÜREN CMS is also compatible with Reis-class (Type-214 TN) air-independent propulsion capable submarines, which are under construction and scheduled to enter service in the following years.

Turkey's New Submarine CMS 'MÜREN' to Enter Service in 2022 - Naval News

Submarines outfitted with MÜREN CMS are planned to enter service with the Turkish Naval Forces Command in 2022.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Turko]

and equipped with a towed / variable depth sonar then why not.

İ always thought they had stationed and towed sonars since they were ASW corvettes? So Do they have currently sonars or not? I'm shocked.

 

[Anmdt]

İ always thought they had stationed and towed sonars since they were ASW corvettes? So Do they have currently sonars or not? I'm shocked.


View attachment 36462
View attachment 36463

They have hull mounted sonar + dipping sonar on the deployed seahawks.
Hizir TKAS also have passive towed array sonar and can be upgraded with LFAS with ease.
Probably they are waiting for things to mature to apply an upgrade package.

LFAS is a towed low frequency system.
Yakamos / Fersah are hull mounted mid frequency systems.

TF-2000 will have hull mounted low frequency system.

 

[Anmdt]

Recap of minor platforms to be procured in near future;

- National mine hunter vessel (number unknown - confirmed)
- Multi-purpose ocean-going tug (2 confirmed)
- Research vessel (1 confirmed)
- Hydrographic survey vessel (2 + 1 expected)
- Coastal oilers (2 confirmed)
- Submarine rescue mothership (1 expected)
- Deep submarine rescue vessel- DSRV (1 confirmed and expected)
- Test and evalutation ship, catamaran or swath (1 confirmed and expected)

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465323831170682885

 

[Anmdt]

After all, why shouldn't we have Nazar-L on the FACs?

 

[Anmdt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465323831170682885

Gabya shows the difference.

 

[Turko]

Gabya shows the difference.

How many tons of wave hits. Now i can understand why seakeeping capability is very important.

And why we also must have heavy frigates !

Dear, in this sea condition Gabya's air defense system can work?

 

[Turko]

After all, why shouldn't we have Nazar-L on the FACs?

We don't know the features of Nazar-L. If you revealed range of impact and dimensions, we would be delighted.

 

[Anmdt]

We don't know the features of Nazar-L. If you revealed range of impact and dimensions, we would be delighted.

The dimension can be deduced from the images shown by Meteksan i guess. And seems to be light-weight.
The range should be same as the Nazar, as disclosed by Meteksan it is above the range of the CIWS, it only lacks a portion.

How many tons of wave hits. Now i can understand why seakeeping capability is very important.

And why we also must have heavy frigates !

Dear, in this sea condition Gabya's air defense system can work?

It depends on the angle the ship handling the waves, how the engines are managed, thus captain experience matter a lot in that question.

 

[Tornadoss]

How many tons of wave hits. Now i can understand why seakeeping capability is very important.

And why we also must have heavy frigates !

Dear, in this sea condition Gabya's air defense system can work?

Not related to Turkey but there is a nice video from French Navy about voyaging in serious sea states

 

[Turko]

Did he mean double range of RIM-116 or Phalanx?

"I can say that we can neutralize these missiles from distances that are twice as long as the systems we currently have. Thus, we will provide a brand new protection shield for valuable platforms, much higher than the existing shields."


Türkçe için bağışlayın: Hedefin imhası için Lazer temasının süresi ne kadar olmalı? Bir saniyelik lazer teması füzeyi yakamaz heralde. 10 saniye filan temas gerekir bence. 10 saniyede de füze bayağı yol alır , hele birde süpersonik ise.

Edit: it doesnt burn target missiles.it just makes blind IIR seekers. So it won't work against RF guided missiles? Am i wrong?

 

[Tornadoss]

After all, why shouldn't we have Nazar-L on the FACs?

I think this is most appropriate solution for FACs. They would be targeted with IR or IIR missiles such as Hellfire or SPIKE rather than radar guided missiles such as Exocet, Harpoon.

 

[Anmdt]

10 saniye filan temas gerekir bence. 10 saniyede de füze bayağı yol alır

We don't know that, we don't know power output of the system, the video shows a brief time to blind the target seeker but i don't think it will be that long.
In the end it will depend on the target but it shouldn't be 10 seconds. Also i think 2 Nazar can engage a single target if it is headed from an appropriate angle o shorten the blinding time.

Its primary role is to detect and blind the seeker (in all bands), secondary role is to target sensitive parts of the target if it continues the engagement. They have also made a threat library to engage each target in a specific way.

Did he mean double range of RIM-116 or Phalanx?

It should be Phalanx or Gökdeniz or RAM, i don't think they will reveal the details of the range and those are very rough estimations. But the good thing is, it can detect the seeker precisely.

 

[Turko]

Here is the totally informative link:

Defence Turkey: There are 11 optical windows on the NAZAR Naval. The system will also be integrated with the onboard CMS, so it will also receive information from the radars on the ship. However, because of the Earth's curvature, the visibility on the horizon line is limited to 25-30 km. For example, a ship radar placed 20 meters above the waterline can detect the Mach 2.8 (952m/s) Brahmos Anti-Ship Guided Missile only 27 kilometers away (can fly 10m above sea surface). This leaves only 28 seconds for interception (tracking, illuminating, engagement, and destruction). So how long will the reaction time be for a missile threat to be detected from 30km away? Is there a laser warm-up period before system activation?

`NAZAR Was Designed as A Directional Infrared Countermeasure System Compatible with the TF-2000 From the Beginning of The Project!`

The Phase-I Critical Design Phase of the NAZAR Project, the contract of which was signed between the Presidency of Defense Industries (SSB) and the Main Contractor METEKSAN Defence in 2016, was successfully completed in July 2019. The production of the first land based NAZAR System has been...

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[Anmdt]

Here is the totally informative link:

Defence Turkey: There are 11 optical windows on the NAZAR Naval. The system will also be integrated with the onboard CMS, so it will also receive information from the radars on the ship. However, because of the Earth's curvature, the visibility on the horizon line is limited to 25-30 km. For example, a ship radar placed 20 meters above the waterline can detect the Mach 2.8 (952m/s) Brahmos Anti-Ship Guided Missile only 27 kilometers away (can fly 10m above sea surface). This leaves only 28 seconds for interception (tracking, illuminating, engagement, and destruction). So how long will the reaction time be for a missile threat to be detected from 30km away? Is there a laser warm-up period before system activation?

`NAZAR Was Designed as A Directional Infrared Countermeasure System Compatible with the TF-2000 From the Beginning of The Project!`

The Phase-I Critical Design Phase of the NAZAR Project, the contract of which was signed between the Presidency of Defense Industries (SSB) and the Main Contractor METEKSAN Defence in 2016, was successfully completed in July 2019. The production of the first land based NAZAR System has been...

www.defenceturkey.com

Also the Nazar isn't alone, accompanied by EA + CIWS and Point defense missiles against supersonic threats.

 

[Anmdt]

 

[Combat-Master]

View attachment 36574