TR Naval Programs

[dBSPL]

so, are we buying P-8 Poseidons?

No, I just wanted to say that as a country that endured so many problems and delays during the Peace Eagle program, it would have been better if we could have invested more in this platform because of the relatively better relations with the United States at that time. A reference to the past. I think it is time to move in a different direction.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

If you give TAI enough time and new recruits, I think it's more than capable in turning a 737-700/800/900 into an MPA platform.
Of course with the help of Aselsan, Havelsan, Roketsan, and other companies.
Actually forming a consortium would be a great solution for such a case.

 

[Bogeyman]

​

Turkish Navy’s First Reis-Class (Type 214TN) AIP Submarine Begins Sea Trials​

The lead boat of Turkiye’s Reis-class submarine project, the Piri Reis, was observed at the Sea of Marmara by the local spotters on December 06, 2022. A tug and an S-70B accompanied the submarine during the tests.


Turkish officials didn’t release a statement about the commencement of the sea trials. Naval News confirmed that the submarine has started the sea trials, which are the last tests before the delivery.


As part of the project, the first submarine, the Piri Reis, which is being built at the Golcuk Naval Shipyard, was launched in 2019, floated in the water in March 2021. The second submarine Hizir Reis, which was dry-docked on 24 May 2022, is scheduled to be commissioned in 2023. From this year onward, one submarine will be commissioned every year, and 6 Reis-class submarines will be delivered to the Turkish Navy by 2027.

The initial delivery schedule of the submarines is given below;

• TCG Piri Reis – 2022
• TCG Hizir Reis – 2023
• TCG Murat Reis – 2024
• TCG Aydin Reis – 2025
• TCG Seydi Ali Reis – 2026
• TCG Selman Reis – 2027

It seems like Piri Reis, which will be the first Air Independent Propulsion capable submarine of the Turkish Navy, may enter the service in the first half of 2023. The Turkish Defense Agency (SSB) stated in the 2021 milestones that the first Reis-class submarine would be commissioned for the Turkish Navy in 2022. However, the commissioning of Pirireis was not included in the SSB’s video announcing the Turkish defense milestones for 2022.


The contract signed in July 2009 between the Presidency of the Turkish Defense Industries (SSB) and Thyssen Krupp Marine Systems is to build 6 submarines with an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system and place them in the service of the Turkish Naval Forces.

Importance of the project​

The Reis-class submarine project is crucial for the Turkish Navy. These submarines will enhance the submarine fleet’s strength in surrounding seas by featuring AIP capability. The Turkish Navy has a 12-piece submarine fleet consisting of four Ay-class (Type 209/1200), four Preveze-class (Type 209T/1400), and four Gür-class (Type 209T2/1400), all conventionally-powered (diesel-electric) attack submarines. By 2027, Turkey will be operating six Reis-class AIP submarines.


The Reis-class will benefit not only the Turkish Navy but also Turkey’s defense technological and industrial base. The know-how and experience gained from the Reis-class submarine project will be a strong reference for indigenous submarines intended to be built under the National Submarine (MİLDEN) project, which is currently at the design phase and expected to be built in the 2030s. There are many Turkish sub-contractors, including ASELSAN, HAVELSAN, MilSOFT, Defense Technologies Engineering and Trade Inc. (STM), Koç Information and Defense, Scientific and Technological Research Council of Turkey (TÜBİTAK), and AYESAŞ working on Reis-class submarines’ sub-systems such as navigation and data management system, data link, torpedo countermeasure system, etc.

About Reis-class submarines​

The Reis-class submarines feature a single-hull, one-compartment design and an air-independent propulsion system on the proven Howaldswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW) fuel cell. The submarines have a length of 68.35 meters, an outer diameter of 6.3 meters, a displacement of 1,850 tons, and a capacity of 40 personnel.


ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems have been building the Reis-class submarines (known initially as Type 214 TN) in Turkey’s Golcuk Shipyard. The AIP system uses fuel cell technology, PEM Fuel Cell (2x120kw), and high-capacity batteries (2×324 units). This provides the submarine with the ability to conduct long-endurance deployments without snorkeling.


The boats will deploy heavyweight torpedoes (MK48 Mod 6AT and DM2A4), anti-ship missiles (Sub-Harpoon), and mines. Indigenous heavyweight torpedo Akya and anti-ship missile Atmaca are expected to be fitted to the next submarines of the project. The Reis-class submarine will be able to undertake missions such as littoral water operations to ocean-going patrols, including anti-surface and anti-submarine operations, ISR tasks, and special forces operations. This is mainly thanks to their increased diving depths and their modular weapon and sensor mix.

Turkish Navy's first Reis-class (Type 214TN) AIP submarine begins sea trials - Naval News

Turkiye's first Reis-class (Type 214TN) (AIP) submarine, "Piri Reis", was spotted at the Sea of Marmara conducting initial sea trials.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Afif]

Does anyone knows if the contract with Germany regarding type214 include midlife refitting of AIPs?

 

[TheInsider]

Does anyone knows if the contract with Germany regarding type214 include midlife refitting of AIPs?

Why should it include such a clause?

 

[Anmdt]

 

[dBSPL]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599796984285909000

Yutek shipbuilding has lifted the protection on its twitter account and the videos can be shared again. Video of the 3000 ton submarine-floating dock from the sea, which I mentioned above.

 

[UcanTost]

Can someone explain the importance of AIP and the lifecycle of the current fleet?

 

[TR22theannihilator]

Can anyone confirm whether these photos are real or fake? If that's the case, why is the propeller exposed?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601531585110544384

 

[Radonsider]

Can anyone confirm whether these photos are real or fake? If that's the case, why is the propeller exposed?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601531585110544384

Real, but doesn't matter as Type-214 is public

 

[TR22theannihilator]

Real, but doesn't matter as Type-214 is public

What do you mean by "public"? But I'm a bit skeptical because if you zoom in, the color seems a bit off.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Can someone explain the importance of AIP and the lifecycle of the current fleet?

AIP - Air Independent Propulsion
As does the name suggest, it is the type of propulsion that doesn’t need presence of air.
A conventional submarine has a Diesel engine that it uses when it is travelling above water. It also uses this engine as an electric generator to charge it’s lead-acid (now on most modern subs Li-Ion) batteries. Power from these batteries propel the submarine underwater. But this means it can only stay submerged for short periods of time as it has to surface to replenish it’s batteries.

AIP system uses hydrogen fuel cells to charge the batteries. Because when burnt these fuel cells give out exhaust as water vapour and it doesn’t detract from submarine’s air supply

• In a fuel cell based AIP, an electrolytic fuel cell releases energy by combining hydrogen and oxygen, with only water as the waste product.
• The cells are highly efficient, and do not have moving parts, thus ensuring that the submarine has a low acoustic emission of sound.
• AIP powered submarine can stay submerged for weeks before it needs to surface again.

Check out Atilay, Preveze and Gur Class at the bottom of below site.

List of submarines of the Turkish Navy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Afif]

If true, then it seems to be a major screw up from Turkey or whoever took the picture
Probably @Anmdt , @Yasar , or @TheInsider can give more info about the issue

nothing is screwed!
it has been public from the beginning.
because there is nothing to hide about type212/214 propellers.

The cylindrical propeller box vortex diffuser system sits over the hub of submarine propellers. Its specially machined core works to greatly decrease turbulence and cavitation that emits from the spinning hub. This not only cuts down on the propeller's audible signature, but it also improves propulsion efficiency and thrust.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Can anyone confirm whether these photos are real or fake? If that's the case, why is the propeller exposed?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601531585110544384

From whom are you going to hide something that you haven't developed with your own engineering mind, knowledge and skills? Those who want to find it can find dozens of photos and even articles about the propeller design of the U212/214 but STM500 and Milden will be a different case.

 

[zio]

This propeller is not made from metal to reduce sonar signature

 

[Khagan1923]

First of all the propeller design of the U214 is nothing classified. The Greeks have exposed their propeller several times already over the last decade. So with the same logic Greek subs are worthless (well they are but the propeller not being secret is not the reason).

Furthermore the Germans would gladly hand over information about the 214TN to the Greeks. Let’s not kid ourselves as if they haven’t already asked for any information the Germans can hand over.

So trying to post pictures of the propeller of the 214TN as if they somehow cracked the secret and now the subs at worthless couldn’t come from a more fitting community on Twitter.

It also takes a crazy amount of confidence to Tag the Greek Navy in it as if they have the capability to track any Turkish Sub. Their Anti-Submarine Warfare capabilities are almost non existent.

I would advise them first to get their current frigates and subs seaworthy so they don’t break down trying to play a blue water navy and sail the E Med further than Crete.

Maybe then they can also participate in some real exercises.

 

[Anmdt]

From whom are you going to hide something that you haven't developed with your own engineering mind, knowledge and skills? Those who want to find it can find dozens of photos and even articles about the propeller design of the U212/214 but STM500 and Milden will be a different case.

It is not particularly about the secrecy of the propeller and so on and neither Greeks are the only possible threat, but rather about keeping properties of our platform secret from others. MoD also has removed the picture and taken necessary measures for the person who has taken and uploaded it that indicates it wasn't supposed to be done, at first place.

Yes a picture doesn't matter much nowadays but now some people knows the propeller is not made of metal, it has been public, and Germans are supplying it to us, and they may later cut certain supply channels for maintenance of the propellers.

This is rather sign of certain mindset and the people with the similar mindset may later share acoustic signature of the submarine following the measurement tests. And Germans will not hold such a data.

First of all the propeller design of the U214 is nothing classified. The Greeks have exposed their propeller several times already over the last decade. So with the same logic Greek subs are worthless (well they are but the propeller not being secret is not the reason).

Furthermore the Germans would gladly hand over information about the 214TN to the Greeks. Let’s not kid ourselves as if they haven’t already asked for any information the Germans can hand over.

So trying to post pictures of the propeller of the 214TN as if they somehow cracked the secret and now the subs at worthless couldn’t come from a more fitting community on Twitter.

It also takes a crazy amount of confidence to Tag the Greek Navy in it as if they have the capability to track any Turkish Sub. Their Anti-Submarine Warfare capabilities are almost non existent.

I would advise them first to get their current frigates and subs seaworthy so they don’t break down trying to play a blue water navy and sail the E Med further than Crete.

Maybe then they can also participate in some real exercises.

Greeks are the last to be happy about seeing the propeller because they operate exactly the same propeller (with little differences as the submarines are slightly different). But it shouldn't have been revealed.

Real, but doesn't matter as Type-214 is public

How? It is not public but a propriety design, so is the propeller. Just because some Navies are operating the submarine it doesn't become "public".
It does matter, it reflects a certain mindset within the people taking place in project.

If he/they did this today, they will do more, recklessly tomorrow.

 

[Khagan1923]

Greeks are the last to be happy about seeing the propeller because they operate exactly the same propeller (with little differences as the submarines are slightly different). But it shouldn't have been revealed.

Should it have been revealed? Of course not. I agree 100% but the delusion of a certain neighbor to think it will somehow level the playingfield for me is just hilarious.

I would be more worried if the same mistake was made with STM-500 or Milden. Then I would be furious. But with the Type 214 it is not an secret, as much as we might want to keep things to ourselves. There are dozens of pictures of the propeller design of the Type 214 for almost a decade now. Hell even the Type 212 propeller is not even safe. Unless I'm not privy to some details and the propeller of the 214TN has changes I can't discern.

My point was more towards the attitude of a certain neighbor acting as if this gives them an edge then about TN PR office being a tad undisciplined in their work.

But that is something I have pointed out several times already that the TSK needs a better PR office staffed with people who actually know what they are doing. Not only TSK tbf our companies need to do a better job too. That video shouldn't have never been greenlit with the propeller exposed just as a matter of principle.

 

[Anmdt]

My point was more towards the attitude of a certain neighbor acting as if this gives them an edge then about TN PR office being a tad undisciplined in their work.

We should rest assured, the person who has uploaded picture /video was not a TAF personnel, let alone being a TN personnel. (It is as such to my knowledge)

 

[Nutuk]

Greek U-214 has the same propeller but without the vortex diffuser (I wonder whether the vortex diffuser can be placed later on as well, if so the Greeks have exactly the same propeller)

But without vortex diffuser the Greek submarines are a bit in dissadvantage as the modern torpedo's like DM2A4 seehecht (and also our own AKYA) have the vortex (Dümen suyu) guidance ability (especially when approaching from behind).

Since we know that the Greeks have purchased the DM2A4 it is smart of our navy to have the vortex diffuser. It should be the Greeks worrying if they cannot add on the diffuser (they would need to change the whole propeller complex, which is an expensive game)