TR Naval Programs

[TheInsider]

Ordered , but delayed in delivery as part of EU’s stance against us in East Med stand off with Greece. Could that be the reason and incentive that we quickly produced our 76/62mm version?
Being a lot cheaper than the Italian gun I remember officials claiming that, we were since offered the SR at a much reduced price when they realised that we had succeeded in manufacturing a replacement.
Luckily for the Italians the I-Class it self was also delayed due to embargoed items like MK-41 VLS.

The reduced price is still far more expensive than the MKE gun. The reduced price is comparable to the cost of the prototype MKE gun. 76mm SR for I class doesn't have Strales. It uses Aselsan TAKS. Yes, delayed delivery was what made us accelerate the development of MKE guns but MKE was laying the groundwork to produce naval guns long before any delay, similar to MIDLAS VLS project of Roketsan. We ordered and signed a contract for the first SR gun which is why we are getting it. There is no new order for SR guns up to now. We will see if there will be any but I highly doubt it because lead times are insane even when there is no delay.

 

[Anmdt]

Happy New Year everyone!
I am making some infographics and I would like to ask why the AREAS-2N ECM system equips the LHD but it was not considered suitable for the Istif frigates and instead they will be fitted with the less capable AREAS-2NC (four antennas)? I have seen also maquettes from IDEF 21 where Istif-class is fitted with both AREAS-2NC and AREAS-2N which doesn't make sense.

Happy New Year,

It wasn't as 'not found suitable' but back in time Navy was looking an effective system at affordable prices by applying minor changes on Ada Class to create the I-Class. At some point i don't know what happened, the Navy was given a go to for a different design and a contract was signed with STM to conduct design studies altogether with design project offfice. At the first design (before the contract) they placed the EA on side of the bridge to cover as much as possible, without modifying the existing mast and the EMI scheme.

However, DPO is known to abuse such instances and they instead went for a design nearly overhauled the sensor suite in comparison to Ada class at greater prices.

I can't evaluate the up or downs or what Navy considered while opting for cassegrain and omitting the phased array but i know even at the current form the phased array (AREAS-2N) can be integrated on the AREAS-2NC position if found necessary (it was designed as such).

Also i doubt if the spot on sides of the bridge is made to support AREAS-2NC with the current update. All coolers and cabling are mainly around-in the new mast.

So, the final design is what available in STM's brochures (with minor changes), the mockup with both AREAS 2N and 2NC is not accurate.

Ordered , but delayed in delivery as part of EU’s stance against us in East Med stand off with Greece. Could that be the reason and incentive that we quickly produced our 76/62mm version?
Being a lot cheaper than the Italian gun I remember officials claiming that, we were since offered the SR at a much reduced price when they realised that we had succeeded in manufacturing a replacement.
Luckily for the Italians the I-Class it self was also delayed due to embargoed items like MK-41 VLS.

Leonardo has not delayed it but at a certain point they weren't giving the gun at all, then they relaxed it "weapon only but no smart munitions", "no training munitions" etc. SSB delagate have visited Italy several times from April to July in 2022 which then they somehow resolved this matter but it is already late, Navy has made the 76mm, not MKE. MKE is merely a middle man there.

This is the final:

 

[Anmdt]

Private Shipyards to build MİLGEM

The Defence Industry Executive Committee, held in December, decided to start the project of the 6th, 7th and 8th ships within the framework of MİLGEM. Details of this program are beginning to become clear. The first time the private shipyard will be in the MİLGEM project.

turdef.com

No need to make it seem mysterious, ASFAT was not a bidder in I-Class 2-3-4 construction thus military shipyards are already out of the scope.

And there are three options;

TAIS or/and STM gets the project. Pick the wise one.

 

[Anmdt]

TF2000, not a double post, a HD version of what is being circulated among the media.

 

[Ripley]

Private Shipyards to build MİLGEM

The Defence Industry Executive Committee, held in December, decided to start the project of the 6th, 7th and 8th ships within the framework of MİLGEM. Details of this program are beginning to become clear. The first time the private shipyard will be in the MİLGEM project.

turdef.com

No need to make it seem mysterious, ASFAT was not a bidder in I-Class 2-3-4 construction thus military shipyards are already out of the scope.

And there are three options;

TAIS or/and STM gets the project. Pick the wise one.

Dear @Anmdt
You‘ve been mounting suspense by bringing out the same statement and every time I bite my tongue not to ask the question
Tell it already bro who’s got the tender and end my misery for crying out loud

 

[Khagan1923]

TF2000, not a double post, a HD version of what is being circulated among the media.

Maybe it’s just me but the picture won’t load.

 

[Tornadoss]

Maybe it’s just me but the picture won’t load.

Same here

 

[Anmdt]

Dear @Anmdt
You‘ve been mounting suspense by bringing out the same statement and every time I bite my tongue not to ask the question
Tell it already bro who’s got the tender and end my misery for crying out loud

This time i just want to see how long it is going to take for some twitter-insiders to find out. I will disclose it at 21th January unless

Maybe it’s just me but the picture won’t load.

Updated.

 

[TR_123456]

Dear @Anmdt
You‘ve been mounting suspense by bringing out the same statement and every time I bite my tongue not to ask the question
Tell it already bro who’s got the tender and end my misery for crying out loud

I could end your misery but i wont.
We dont trust Murican spies.

 

[Anmdt]

View attachment 52231

TF2000, not a double post, a HD version of what is being circulated among the media.

The image, above, was posted at IDEF 21. However some changes took place since then. The old image shows AREAS-2N as the EA system but Navy's armerkom is pursuing for planar arrays with stronger jamming capability.

Also there will be C-ESM and C-ED system on top of rear antennas (C-ED is already present but it is merely a place holder). They have gone for simplistic C-EA but i expect a better one, considering it was a place holder.

At some point they have considered an integrated antenna similar to Japanese Mogami, to combine LOS communication with for UAVs or USVs, C-ESM, TACAN within a unified antenna for the middle antenna position, but the time is limited for R&D.

The antenna holding C-ESM-ED (most rear antenna) is definitely being made to support a low frequency (L / VHF depending on block) Early Warning radar.

 

[Ripley]

I could end your misery but i wont.
We dont trust Murican spies.

You know what, fair enough.
I’ll ask the boys at the “Company“ (wink wink) then

 

[Yasar_TR]

May be one of the main questions we should be asking and discussing here should be if we ought to look in to the development of a VLA missile (Vertical Launch Anti Submarine) system for our Frigates ; especially now that we have an indigenous VLS MIDLAS. Or alternatively use our unmanned ULAQ class vessels for this job.

Greece is buying Belharra frigates with a very advanced towed array sonar (CAPTAS-4 compact) that can detect submarines at distances well beyond of modern torpedos’ effective ranges. This sonar has detection capability of most quiet subs at ranges above 60km.

Thales welcomes Greece's decision to acquire three Belh@rra® frigates

The Greek Navy will receive two Belh@rra® type frigates in 2025 and a third in 2026, becoming the first export customer to select the new defence and intervention frigate (FDI) built by French industry. The frigates will be equipped with the Sea Fire radar in the first export success for this...

www.thalesgroup.com

Aselsan‘s Hızır-LFAS towed array sonar is probably just as good and is still being developed and updated.

https://www.aselsan.com.tr/en/capabilities/naval-systems/torpedo-and-torpedo-countermeasure-systems/hizirlfas-low-frequency-towed-active-sonar-system

To counter submarines we have Roketsan’s ASW rocket system. These rockets can be fired from surface ships with ASW capabilities with a range of 500-2000 metres. Roketsan was working on extending this range to 4000metres. Also within this development the effective depth was to be increased from 300m to 500m.

Roketsan Offers Cost-effective Alternative Firepower for Ships with its Tactical Missile Systems | savunmahaber.com

The news article that is in the NSS 2019 Special Dossier published in the 76th issue of MSI Turkish Defence Review is here: One of the topics highlighted by Roketsan in the seminar was the integration…

www.savunmahaber.com

But the submarines can launch their 30-50+ km range torpedoes against our surface ships without getting in to the firing range of these ASW rockets. However with a VLA missile system this range can be extended. But better still by deploying ULAQ class ASW unmanned vessels equipped with these rockets we can extend the effective range of our ASW rockets well beyond any submarine‘s torpedo range. In fact the only limiting factor would be the detection range of the towed array sonar used by the control ship.

HIZIR-LFAS

 

[zio]

There are some handicaps for towed low frequency sonars,one is its cumbersome and not ready to go,the other is it can only performed on slow speeds,and more useful on open seas not for island seas.

 

[UkroTurk]

i would say: Quantity of Turkish Unmanned surface vessels could suppress quality of enemy submarines.

Please remember when an enemy submarine launches a torpedo and switches long range sonar , the submarine will be detected from our warships.

I would sacrifice one ULAQ in order to catch a position of Greek submarine.


Again i can't understand why ASW rockets Rather than light torpedoes?

The situation similar to new I-Class and TF-2000 frigates. The Navy prefered Gökdeniz 35mm CIWS rather than Gökdeniz ER missiles.

 

[Afif]

i would say: Quantity of Turkish Unmanned surface vessels could suppress quality of enemy submarines.

Please remember when an enemy submarine launches a torpedo and switches long range sonar , the submarine will be detected from our warships.

I would sacrifice one ULAQ in order to catch a position of Greek submarine.


Again i can't understand why ASW rockets Rather than light torpedoes?

The situation similar to new I-Class and TF-2000 frigates. The Navy prefered Gökdeniz 35mm CIWS rather than Gökdeniz ER missiles.

It is not that easy to detect a modern AIP boat. harder than detecting an stealth fighter.
And submarines only listen, does not use active sonar.
Anyway, ULAQ would be a great addition to Turkish naval inventory.

 

[AWP]

Any news regarding the TCG Barbaros modernization program ?

 

[Oublious]

Any news regarding the TCG Barbaros modernization program ?

first ship is going modernization.

 

[TheInsider]

i would say: Quantity of Turkish Unmanned surface vessels could suppress quality of enemy submarines.

Please remember when an enemy submarine launches a torpedo and switches long range sonar , the submarine will be detected from our warships.

I would sacrifice one ULAQ in order to catch a position of Greek submarine.


Again i can't understand why ASW rockets Rather than light torpedoes?

The situation similar to new I-Class and TF-2000 frigates. The Navy prefered Gökdeniz 35mm CIWS rather than Gökdeniz ER missiles.

Do you think a submarine will fire a torpedo at a USV? Do you think torpedo will be effective? Torpedos are designed for vessels with a certain draft and they are fired against valuable targets. Torpedoes are not effective against speed boats.

 

[CAN_TR]

Leonardo offers AW101 to the Turkish Navy

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611618662946930690

 

[Heartbang]

Leonardo offers AW101 to the Turkish Navy

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611618662946930690

Huh. That's nice of them. Is it any good though?